Ken Burn's Vietnam series

I was in the Army from 1983-1994. I can't imagine what the men that served during that time endured and suffered. I've known many Vietnam Veterans, heard some seriously f'd up stories that even I can't fathom. There are just some places we shouldn't be. The Middle East, Vietnam and Korea. While I respect and admire the Armed Services, the men who fought and died, I can't respect the Politicians that play chess with soldiers lives. I still don't regret serving.

I was deployed to Panama for 3 months for Operation Just Cause with the 82nd. It was a cake-walk in comparison. Even though I saw the result of what we did, the ruins, doing door-to-door. The damage an AC-130 could do, the Stealth bomber I can say it's a very surreal experience. I missed being deployed to the Persian Gulf by one day. I was inflight to Germany. My unit, the 4/325 Airborne Infantry Regiment was one on the first units deployed. I simply lucked out.

Before I enlisted for the Army I asked my father what the hardest part of being in the Army was, he said "Just being there." I've never heard a better explanation than that. I never knew he fought in Korea until after I left the Army. He was one of 10 people that made it back from his unit. He never talked about it but that one time. It's often referred to as the "forgotten war." Seems he wanted to forget it.

I wish the "knee-taker" crowd had a better understanding of what Veterans and their families lost and gave. I have vowed to never watch the NFL again. They have no idea how disrespectful they are to fatherless children, widows, veterans who lost life and limb. Not to mention the Police that put their lives on the line. Regardless of their opinions or what they believe at least show respect, that's being men.

You'll note in the documentary several of the Military leaders showed respect for the effort and resolve of their enemy. If a man can show that under the threat of death I'm sure a football player can show some respect on a feild. Soldiers don't make millions of dollars a year and don't get to protest where they are deployed to. Many don't go home. Football players do.

As a followup to my earlier post: I was in college 1962 to 1966. I lost my deferment in 1966. I had for a while been in Army ROTC. I had also completed Marine Corps PLC (Platoon Leaders Class) - the Marine version of officer training school - 12 weeks at Quantico, Virginia. When I didn't graduate but was no longer in school (long sordid story of academic misfeasance) I was suddenly faced with the prospect of being a Marine Lance Corporal instead of an officer in the Marines - al la Vietnam, or somewhere else in the military. I was also 21 years old, #1 in my county at the pre-lottery draft, and primed to be drafted. The Air Force recruiter actually went to the March draft board meeting and asked that they defer drafting me for one month so he could finish my paperwork. They did. I was in the Air Force April 6. And I wound up in electronic warfare and radar operations in NORAD. My 30 person radar operations class was spit in two - in alphabetical order - 15 to NORAD, 15 went to TAC in southeast Asia. Being a "G" I went to NORAD for a bit over 6 years including such romantic spots as Iowa, North Dakota and Alaska. We did get to play with the Russians who sent recon planes along our coast so we would scramble F4 Phantoms on them, and then they would scramble fighters on our EC135s. Ah! The cold war.

I was aware of the reports - faulty as they were - of the war during this time period. The Burns documentary hit every highlight in my memory and did a good job of explaining things. I was able to watch the entire series from an informed outsider's point of view absent the trauma of those actually there. That said, I do understand the pain that participants and survivors wish not to relive by watching the series.

Born in '54, I pulled draft lottery number 251. Anyone who pulled 100 or less was required to get a physical, but then Nixon ended the war and nobody actually got drafted.

anglojaxon said:

I wish the "knee-taker" crowd had a better understanding of what Veterans and their families lost and gave. I have vowed to never watch the NFL again. They have no idea how disrespectful they are to fatherless children, widows, veterans who lost life and limb. Not to mention the Police that put their lives on the line. Regardless of their opinions or what they believe at least show respect, that's being men.

You'll note in the documentary several of the Military leaders showed respect for the effort and resolve of their enemy. If a man can show that under the threat of death I'm sure a football player can show some respect on a feild. Soldiers don't make millions of dollars a year and don't get to protest where they are deployed to. Many don't go home. Football players do.

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I understand that the football players are protesting the use of excessive force, often fatal, used against young black men. I doubt they mean any disrespect to veterans. If they are frustrated by the lack of "liberty and justice for all", I am not surprised. The loudest critic of the protests, is, as I recall, a bit of a draft dodger himself.

Why is it, when someone actually corrects the many imflamatory misstatements, you bring out popcorn man???

Anyname said:

I understand that the football players are protesting the use of excessive force, often fatal, used against young black men. I doubt they mean any disrespect to veterans. If they are frustrated by the lack of "liberty and justice for all", I am not surprised. The loudest critic of the protests, is, as I recall, a bit of a draft dodger himself.

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I'm still trying to understand how kneeling came to indicate disrespect toward the flag, the military or anything else. I was taught to kneel when entering and leaving church as well as during the service. Knighthoods are accepted by kneeling before the monarch and swearing loyalty. I don't watch football, but as I understand it, "taking a knee" basically means "I'm done, don't hit me", much like a dog showing it"s belly. Kneeling is the stereotypical posture for proposing marriage and other forms of begging.

So why are so many saying that kneeling indicates disrespect, when in any other situation it actually shows respect and submission?

I too had a 360 draft number but enlisted in the Army, later served ten years in the Marines. Would you believe I was known as a "hawk?" Sgt 11D40 in the Army and Capt 0802 and 2602 in the Marines. Recently I watched what was in the Pentagon Papers. When at stationed at NSA I was briefed on our history in Iran, we were the bad guys, period. I saw Iran Contra plus our actions in Nicaragua first hand, no white hats there either. It taught me that a sign the Iranians put up during the hostage episode had a lot of validity: "We love the American people, but hate the American government." I believe they were right, our people are fantastic but our government lets us down at every turn. Vietnam was a terrible waste of young men's lives.

Anyname said:

I understand that the football players are protesting the use of excessive force, often fatal, used against young black men. I doubt they mean any disrespect to veterans. If they are frustrated by the lack of "liberty and justice for all", I am not surprised. The loudest critic of the protests, is, as I recall, a bit of a draft dodger himself.

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http://nflarrest.com

There have been some excellent posts to this thread concerning Vietnam and the recent PBS series. I would like to see more of those contributions. I think it has been good, but by no means pleasant, to hear people share their memories of that time.

Accordingly, would those folks interested in discussing the issue of the NFL protests please start a separate thread. It's a topic worthy of it's own thread.

36654 said:

There have been some excellent posts to this thread concerning Vietnam and the recent PBS series. I would like to see more of those contributions. I think it has been good, but by no means pleasant, to hear people share their memories of that time.

Accordingly, would those folks interested in discussing the issue of the NFL protests please start a separate thread. It's a topic worthy of it's own thread.

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I actually agree but disagree. This thread is about the Burn's Vietman documentary and should stay that way.

The NFL protests were started to protest the killing of unarmed persons of color by police officers. The topic has morphed into things about God, the flag, and some persons' political views about the meaning of the terms patriot or patriotism. Thus the comments on this and the closed Las Vegas thread include: religion, guns, and politics. All banned topics with no legitimate place on this motorcycle forum.

I am sort of watching the Burns Vietnams series, hopefully Ill see al eventually. My dad, who clawed his way (the hard way) to full colonel, fought in this war, after fighting all of WWII and doing a tour of duty in the Korean Conflict as well. It was 1967 when he went to Vietnam and it never dawned on me, in 6th grade, that might never return. But return he did, with no injuries, and tho he never once talked about it, or certainly did nt tell stories... My uncle told us that once, in some compound somewhere, he and 2 other guys were walking around when shelling began. All three left behind/under jeep or something and when it was over, the guy on one side of my dad was dead, and the guy on the other side had his arm blown off... or something like that. So maybe my dad was lucky, tho I do know for sure he was lightly wounded on 2 occasions elsewhere- although among his 25 or so medals (some doubles) there remain zero Purple Hearts. I also know that when he went to Vietnam he was put on some sort of desk duty. He raised cain and so they made him helicopter gunner- frying pan to the fire, anyone? He eventually was handed a field command. He was one tough guy and never eased up, a hard ass all the way to the grave. He held every rank between buck private and full bird, except chief warrant officer ( believe, the top enlisted rank? please correct me if I am wrong here). He was granted a Field Promotion in WWII when his commander was killed and he led his unit to victory over some perceived strategic target.

Ken Burns will cover lots here but much will remain untold... No mention of CIA "methods" of funding their secret operations in Cambodia and Laos, for example, nor of G.I. drug use. I knew and hung out with guys doing short time (I was 15, 71/72) at Ft Leonard Wood after serving as draftees, kicking heroin and other habits- who told wild stories about their experiences in the war! And I used to be good buddies with a grizzled old colonel who was a special forces guy from their very start. He did 3 tours in Viet Nam, so heard his stories as well, including one humorous tale about him trying to get into a medical compound to see his daughter who was serving as a nurse... the tough Mother Hen running the compound was hesitant to admit this gnarly, nasty jungle fighter in to see one of her girls! Even if he WAS her dad.

I turned 18 after the fall of Saigon, and was waffling a little, trying to decide what to do about draft registration... but before I could figure it out they abolished the draft. I had already had shoulder surgery (staples, R shoulder), and was missing my spleen, SO who knows what my classification may have been?

In any event, there is lots I never knew about Viet Nam and our involvement. This well put together documentary is filling some gaps and adding to the timeline of my life. I'm at like episode 5.

My thanks to all veterans and active duty persons for your service!