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Thread: Couldn't believe my eyes

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by selyab View Post
    Just using your example and by employing risk management when your friend decided to go riding might have taken into consideration that A) I need to wear protective gear to minimize the risk of serious injury. B) The gear I have decided to wear for protection also makes me warmer. C) Today is already a hot day and this gear will make me even hotter. D) wearing protective gear on this day which I have decided I need to mitigate risk of injury will also cause my body to possibly overheat. The conclusion might have been that he would not go riding that day because it's too hot to wear protective gear and stay cool. Some days it is too hot to ride safely and some days it is too cold based on the risks.
    And that is why there is vented gear, evaporative vests and other garments, and ways to stay well hydrated. GGATT = good gear all the time.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ncpbmw1953 View Post
    There are scenarios where it will be nigh to impossible to keep yourself cool enough in anything short of shorts, no helmet and a T shirt.
    This is simply not true. Take a cue from the Bedouins in the desert. Fully covered with loose, light colored clothing from head to toes. Shorts and a T shirt would kill them in short order.

    There is excellent hot weather protective riding gear available. And cooling strategies that use controlled air flow and evaporative cooling. This will keep you cooler (while moving) than exposing skin to direct sunlight in shorts and T shirts.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    This is simply not true. Take a cue from the Bedouins in the desert. Fully covered with loose, light colored clothing from head to toes. Shorts and a T shirt would kill them in short order.

    There is excellent hot weather protective riding gear available. And cooling strategies that use controlled air flow and evaporative cooling. This will keep you cooler (while moving) than exposing skin to direct sunlight in shorts and T shirts.
    All that said, if [that] makes the ride uncomfortable & not enjoyable to the rider in question...then going without, is HIS decision to make.
    Ron Prior {AMA member ,MOA member}
    Milford,Oh
    2002 KLT
    2004 Roadster

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by 71243 View Post
    All that said, if [that] makes the ride uncomfortable & not enjoyable to the rider in question...then going without, is HIS decision to make.
    Of course. People are not required to make good decisions. And other people are not required to think those poor decisions are good ideas.

    I am not arguing about freedom. I am arguing about dumb vs smart decisions.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  5. #35
    FUKENGRUVEN SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    People can choose to make dumb decisions and others can choose to view them with disdain and voice their disapproval in harsh terms. I choose the later.
    Kevin Huddy
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  6. #36
    I think it is great to have that much freedom!

    How did seat belt use become so ingrained as a culture in the US? Unless I am missing it I have not heard any lobbying to make seat belts voluntary.
    Where I grew up in Canada wearing a helmet is as automatic and obvious as wearing seat belts today. BTW I am totally ATGATT and I wear seat belts but it is so American to see helmetless riders.
    Seek Fun. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain--and most fools do" BF
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  7. #37
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roamingbeemer View Post
    How did seat belt use become so ingrained as a culture in the US? Unless I am missing it I have not heard any lobbying to make seat belts voluntary.
    Seat belts? No doubt helpful in most cases- especially ejection. Not so much for entrapment
    Let's see.....I think usage became ingrained due to-
    Incessant beeping if not buckled up.
    Auto "sweep" chest restraint that made you feel- "it's there anyway".
    The computer in the vehicle records whether you are "belted" or not.
    In many states, usage is requires for at least some age groups- if not all drivers. (there are even "seat belt road-blocks).
    I think it's referred to as a Nanny State

    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
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  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Of course. People are not required to make good decisions. And other people are not required to think those poor decisions are good ideas.

    I am not arguing about freedom. I am arguing about dumb vs smart decisions.

    Yes and again many think that riding a motorcycle period is a dumb decision....no matter what ya wear.

    And I'm actually not arguing anything. If a person makes a decision that does not harm me, it is his decision to make, and he that will suffer the consequences if they happen. I have no right to argue against him....it's none of my business.
    Ron Prior {AMA member ,MOA member}
    Milford,Oh
    2002 KLT
    2004 Roadster

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    People can choose to make dumb decisions and others can choose to view them with disdain and voice their disapproval in harsh terms. I choose the later.

    Why would you have disdain about something that does not harm....you?

    Or is it my way or the highway?
    Ron Prior {AMA member ,MOA member}
    Milford,Oh
    2002 KLT
    2004 Roadster

  10. #40
    FUKENGRUVEN SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 71243 View Post
    Why would you have disdain about something that does not harm....you?

    Or is it my way or the highway?
    Ah, but it does. It negatively impacts members of my family who are first responders and medical professionals, wastes my tax dollars spent dealing with the results of dumb choices, damages my image among the general public, hurts my image with politicians who may react to their foolishness by passing more restrictive laws and increases the cost of my motorcycle and health insurance. Since I am not a proponent of mandatory helmet laws my disdain is a small price for the foolish to endure.
    Kevin Huddy
    Tm Pterodactyl MT Outpost

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by 71243 View Post
    Why would you have disdain about something that does not harm....you?

    Or is it my way or the highway?
    Oh Ron I know you know better. I already said people have the right to make stupid decisions and do stupid things. But I also have every right to note the stupidity with disdain. Of course it doesn't harm me directly; the indirect effect on taxes (police, fire, EMT costs), and insurance costs can't be precisely quantified but certainly are greater than zero.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    This is simply not true. Take a cue from the Bedouins in the desert. Fully covered with loose, light colored clothing from head to toes. Shorts and a T shirt would kill them in short order.

    There is excellent hot weather protective riding gear available. And cooling strategies that use controlled air flow and evaporative cooling. This will keep you cooler (while moving) than exposing skin to direct sunlight in shorts and T shirts.
    Oh, good call, from the Bedouins in the desert w/ 5% humidity. Why didn't I think of that! I said 'there are scenarios where it will be nigh to impossible to keep yourself cool enough...' and there are. How about a modestly hot ambient temp of 105F w/ 90% humidity which equates to a heat index of 185? Show me the gear that lets you survive that for any length of ride on black pavement in the sun. The problem, of course, is evaporative cooling doesn't work in high humidity conditions unless air flow is maximum, and even that starts to fail when available water/sweat declines in the face of blazing hot temperatures and air flow hitting your skin. I have fully vented summer riding gear and it's fine when temps approach 100F+ but that requires a cooling vest because insensible water loss is huge in the low humidity condition I live in.
    Last edited by ncpbmw1953; 09-25-2017 at 02:17 AM.

  13. #43
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    I think it's referred to as a Nanny State

    OM
    I refer to it as "common sense," based on Newton's law about objects in motion, and all that...
    My fleet: 2015 R1200GS, 2017 Toyota Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid)

  14. #44
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Oh Ron I know you know better. I already said people have the right to make stupid decisions and do stupid things. But I also have every right to note the stupidity with disdain. Of course it doesn't harm me directly; the indirect effect on taxes (police, fire, EMT costs), and insurance costs can't be precisely quantified but certainly are greater than zero.
    Paul,

    How dare you apply common sense to this issue......
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
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  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ncpbmw1953 View Post
    Oh, good call, from the Bedouins in the desert w/ 5% humidity. Why didn't I think of that! I said 'there are scenarios where it will be nigh to impossible to keep yourself cool enough...' and there are. How about a modestly hot ambient temp of 105F w/ 90% humidity which equates to a heat index of 185? Show me the gear that lets you survive that for any length of ride on black pavement in the sun. The problem, of course, is evaporative cooling doesn't work in high humidity conditions unless air flow is maximum, and even that starts to fail when available water/sweat declines in the face of blazing hot temperatures and air flow hitting your skin. I have fully vented summer riding gear and it's fine when temps approach 100F+ but that requires a cooling vest because insensible water loss is huge in the low humidity condition I live in.
    OK. Shorts and a T shirt are just perfect for you. Have fun. I personally would not ride at 105 degrees and 90% humidity. In fact, I wouldn't go to a place with 105/90 unless coerced to. But I am sure you do it all the time and enjoy it.

    In 2003 I approached Las Vegas in 114 degree temperatures in the Iron Butt rally - the 11,000 miles in 11 days thing. I switched from my First Gear mesh jackets and pants, and rode on with my evaporative vest and Aerostich Roadcrafter pant and jacket and evap. vest. Much better. I welcome hearing about your experience in your shorts and T shirts.
    Last edited by PGlaves; 09-25-2017 at 05:06 AM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

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