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Thread: Couldn't believe my eyes

  1. #16
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    You can make any decision you want on what to wear.....


    Just don't have someone set up some "Go Fund Me" page because you can afford that 3rd Skin Graft or your funeral because of your poor decision!!!

  2. #17
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by crna59 View Post
    You can make any decision you want on what to wear.....


    Just don't have someone set up some "Go Fund Me" page because you can afford that 3rd Skin Graft or your funeral because of your poor decision!!!
    Most of us immersed in the training arena try to educate and convince new or returning riders as to the value of protecting themselves from the neck up, given the undeniable results of what a crash will do to your head.

    But in the end, we realize that wearing or not wearing a helmet becomes an emotional decision (peer pressure, ego, superstition, urban myths, "you can't fix stupid," etc.) and we just hope for the best.

    Logic has apparently lost it's way in our society.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF Lead RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle/High Performance/Teen/Winter/ATV Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Track

  3. #18
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    I try not to get too excited about all this........safety training or risk assessment has been eliminated at the school level. Here the kids on the sports teams are taught to run (exercise) in the streets with whatever they happen to be wearing.......no matter if it's light or dark out.
    om
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
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  4. #19
    Registered User jandhumphreyme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortythorne View Post
    And just what is your point? Do you support this irresponsible behavior for BMW riders?
    The point was simple and well taken.

    Do I support this behavior, in a way yes, I'm indifferent to the personal decisions of others that do not endanger my or my families life on the roadway.

    The condescension from the ATGATT crowd is uncalled for, if you are an ATGATT person, fine live and model your convictions, teach by example. It will surely be more effective in the long run than by informing those who don't agree with your convictions, that we are stupid.

    As for "for BMW riders" seriously, what difference does the brand possibly have to this discussion?
    So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
    And we never even know we have the key

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by shortythorne View Post
    And just what is your point? Do you support this irresponsible behavior for BMW riders?

    I support minding my own business.......Some people believe it is irresponsible just to ride a motorcycle....even more-so for those riders with children. Do you want their view to become the rule ? Are you in agreement when they shake their heads at us? I wasn't aware that there was a format for riding & enjoying motorcycles........
    Ron Prior {AMA member ,MOA member}
    Milford,Oh
    2002 KLT
    2004 Roadster

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jandhumphreyme View Post
    The point was simple and well taken.

    Do I support this behavior, in a way yes, I'm indifferent to the personal decisions of others that do not endanger my or my families life on the roadway.

    The condescension from the ATGATT crowd is uncalled for, if you are an ATGATT person, fine live and model your convictions, teach by example. It will surely be more effective in the long run than by informing those who don't agree with your convictions, that we are stupid.

    As for "for BMW riders" seriously, what difference does the brand possibly have to this discussion?

    Exactly!
    Ron Prior {AMA member ,MOA member}
    Milford,Oh
    2002 KLT
    2004 Roadster

  7. #22
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    A little while ago I saw a CLC rider with no helmet, a polo shirt, and Penny loafers. I thought to myself "people still wear penny loafers?".

  8. #23
    While I believe in responsible behavior....period...no matter the activity. Responsible behavior can be and is a matter of opinion . To the point that, [in some cases] it must become a matter of law.

    It is very hard to argue the "safety" of "gear" in the case of an accident. But it is not for everyone one, for many reasons.
    On a weekend trip, myself & 4 others. One guy was fully suited, almost new Aero suit, f/face, etc. He suddenly fell, @ a stop light . The rest of us rushed to help...picked up him & his ride...obvious heat stroke...thankfully mild. A police officer happened along said lets put him in my air-conditioned car. He [the rider] had street shorts & a tee under the suit.He redressed into pants, and continued on about an hour later. So in this case the suit "caused" the incident.

    I used to work among police motorcycle officers....I can't count how many times they would come into the shop,in the summer & start striping down. Saying I need to get out of this "crap"for a while....17" boots, wool britches, L/sleeve shirt, tie, ballistic vest & [if uniform of the day] nylon "Ike" jacket.

    Point being...it is indeed possible to "over-dress" we are all different & situations differ.....pick your poison.....
    Ron Prior {AMA member ,MOA member}
    Milford,Oh
    2002 KLT
    2004 Roadster

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jandhumphreyme View Post

    As for "for BMW riders" seriously, what difference does the brand possibly have to this discussion?
    Come on down to State Highway 118 on the way to Big Bend National Park. Here you will see hordes of HD riding pirates riding without gear, ATBATT - All the Beer, All the Time. And you will see many BMW riders riding ATGATT. The peer group culture does make a difference.

    As I read a BMW rider's letter to a Harley skin mag once, "We are a lot alike, except you dress like pirates, and we dress like armadillos."
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  10. #25
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Come on down to State Highway 118 on the way to Big Bend National Park. Here you will see hordes of HD riding pirates riding without gear, ATBATT - All the Beer, All the Time. And you will see many BMW riders riding ATGATT. The peer group culture does make a difference.

    As I read a BMW rider's letter to a Harley skin mag once, "We are a lot alike, except you dress like pirates, and we dress like armadillos."
    That's one thing I like about the BMW tribe - you are allowed to ride ATGATT and wear hi-viz and full-face helmets and not get harassed about it. This was actually a factor in my choosing to ride BMW motorcycles.
    My fleet: 2015 R1200GS, 2017 Toyota Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid)

  11. #26
    Left Coast Rider
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    Can someone please start an oil thread?

  12. #27
    Registered User selyab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 71243 View Post
    While I believe in responsible behavior....period...no matter the activity. Responsible behavior can be and is a matter of opinion . To the point that, [in some cases] it must become a matter of law.

    It is very hard to argue the "safety" of "gear" in the case of an accident. But it is not for everyone one, for many reasons.
    On a weekend trip, myself & 4 others. One guy was fully suited, almost new Aero suit, f/face, etc. He suddenly fell, @ a stop light . The rest of us rushed to help...picked up him & his ride...obvious heat stroke...thankfully mild. A police officer happened along said lets put him in my air-conditioned car. He [the rider] had street shorts & a tee under the suit.He redressed into pants, and continued on about an hour later. So in this case the suit "caused" the incident.

    I used to work among police motorcycle officers....I can't count how many times they would come into the shop,in the summer & start striping down. Saying I need to get out of this "crap"for a while....17" boots, wool britches, L/sleeve shirt, tie, ballistic vest & [if uniform of the day] nylon "Ike" jacket.

    Point being...it is indeed possible to "over-dress" we are all different & situations differ.....pick your poison.....
    Just using your example and by employing risk management when your friend decided to go riding might have taken into consideration that A) I need to wear protective gear to minimize the risk of serious injury. B) The gear I have decided to wear for protection also makes me warmer. C) Today is already a hot day and this gear will make me even hotter. D) wearing protective gear on this day which I have decided I need to mitigate risk of injury will also cause my body to possibly overheat. The conclusion might have been that he would not go riding that day because it's too hot to wear protective gear and stay cool. Some days it is too hot to ride safely and some days it is too cold based on the risks.

    That's a decision based on risk assessment for a particular ride. Now maybe he did not have the experience with this particular heat/gear scenario the day it happened but when he rides in the future he will have this information to make this assessment.

    Since I am the OP on this thread, I want to revisit my question. How was the decision made to ride in beach attire? For me some items are not negotiable because there is no minimum speed at which I can accept my skull contacting asphalt but I do have more than one set of riding gear and they do not all provide the same level of protection. Any time I select one other than the one that provides the most protection, I assess that ride in terms of how fast it might be, how much traffic there might be, will it rain etc. then make the decision based on how I perceive the risk.

    So the guy on the GTL made a decision too. I am interested in whether that decision was based on simply it is hot? Was it based on seeing others riding and doing the same thing? Does not having helmet laws in a particular state not only allow people to ride without helmets but does it encourage people to make that decision to not ride with one? How much thought was given in his decision?

    P.S. Anyone using Mobil 1?
    Current : '76 R90/6, '11 R12GSA, '15 RTW, '16 S1R.
    Gone: '07 K1200GT, '03 R1150RT, '85 K100RT.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by shortythorne View Post
    After all, most BMW riders support all aspects of rider training, including ATGATT. I would rather be considered a snob than a dumb ass in ICU or dead.
    If only ATGATT would keep you alive or out of the ICU, but unfortunately it rarely will. It definitely helps with various manifestations of road rash and w/ avoiding some bone fractures, but in the end what will keep you alive and out of the ICU is avoiding the big blunt and not so blunt direct trauma, and in those scenarios ATGATT doesn't offer a whole lot of protection. Even so, I'll happily take what protection I can. I also add the hi-vis piece in my riding jacket and use a white RF-1200 in keeping w/ any possible risk reduction available to me....short of not riding ;o)

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 71243 View Post
    Point being...it is indeed possible to "over-dress" we are all different & situations differ.....pick your poison.....
    Yes, one shouldn't bundle up in multiple layers and ride for long periods in very hot and humid ambient temps as there is no way to stay cool enough. There are scenarios where it will be nigh to impossible to keep yourself cool enough in anything short of shorts, no helmet and a T shirt. This being said, I simply wouldn't do it for any length of time. No way will I ride in shorts, t-shirt and no helmet!

    On a 10K mile x-country, into Canada and back last year we were in 112F temps for 3 straight hours, fully geared up. But it was around Las Vegas and humidity was low, so the $19 Hyperkewl vest took care of overheating. What it really does is keep you from needing to drink as much water since sweat really provides the cooling until you run dry.

  15. #30
    FUKENGRUVEN SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    My son-in-law is a professional firefighter and has been on the job for nearly eight years; he also works on an ambulance crew which is part of the hospital. He remarked once about how his attitude has changed over the years towards motorcyclists he assists at accident sites. He said his gut response to seeing an injured or dead motorcyclist who wore zero protective equipment has gone from sympathetic to anger. He and his peers get angry that someone's poor choice has put them in the position of dealing with the gruesome results. Of course it is not just the decision not to wear a helmet that angers these guys. All too often it involves alcohol, lack of training/skills and riding too fast.

    I'm not for mandatory helmet laws for adults, but to say that the decision not to wear protective gear does not hurt anyone else is false. Someone must clean up the mess, treat the injured, deal with the family who may now be unable to make it financially and pay the bill for it all.

    I live in Harley land where the overhelming majority of the riders wear no protective gear other than a$$less chaps (because they are a fashion statement). I get looks like I'm from deep space, and now that I wear an air vest they are truely puzzled. So be it, but I will show little compassion for an intoxicated, unprotected motorcycling dilettante that ends up in the hospital or on a slab.
    Kevin Huddy
    Tm Pterodactyl MT Outpost

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