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Couldn't believe my eyes
- Thread starter selyab
- Start date
SeabeckS
New member
Its a little known fact that plaid shirts offer ballistic abrasion protection.
Good to know!
couldn't believe my eyes
Not a lot of protection, but maybe a little better than a Speedo and no plaid shirt.
Friedle
Its a little known fact that plaid shirts offer ballistic abrasion protection.
Not a lot of protection, but maybe a little better than a Speedo and no plaid shirt.
Friedle
jeffkruger
New member
I think this was very well said. I am almost ATGATT. When on a trip, especially with my wife, if we are riding the bike a short distance from a hotel to a nicer restaurant we will some times wear jeans or other pants, and no riding jacket, but always helmets whether required by law or not. I accept the risk of riding with less than ideal protection in such circumstances and it's a personal choice. My daughter has traveled with me extensively on the back of my bikes. With her we were ATGATT no matter what the circumstances. As her father I didn't want her to be responsible for making a decision, and I didn't want to make it for her and potentially live with guilt if something when wrong. I believed in erring on the side of safety. My wife is an adult and we've talked about it, and she was comfortable making the decision. I don't have a problem with whatever people choose to wear while riding. It's their choice, and they assume the risks and suffer the consequences if something goes wrong.
As for the attitude about BMW riders being superior, I got over that a long ago. I do know there are many extremely experienced riders that are meticulous owners, do their own maintenance and really know their bike and actually put miles on them, that are BMW loyalists. I think the percentage of such riders on BMW's is probably quite a bit higher than other brands. I truly enjoy meeting them while traveling, probably because we are similar and have some of the same beliefs, we tend to get along well. That being said, I've also met folks like a real character that was in his 70's that was riding an older HD with camping gear and regular kitchen pots and pans strapped to his bike. His wife had died and he decided to travel the country on his bike and reconnect with some old friends that were scattered around the country. There are some truly great people riding a lot of different brands of bikes. It's only been other BMW owners that I ever suspected may be packing a slide rule somewhere on their bike though.
riderr1150gsadv
Well-known member
I'm in the ATGATT camp myself and I won't have it any other way, but I won't tell others what to do as most should be adult enough (hopefully) to make their own bed.
What other people do is their choice. My only problem is that more responsible people pay for the dumb choices others make by paying higher insurance rates for just about everything. Here in Florida it is best to have uninsured motorist insurance as the State doesn't enforce the law unlike Georgia and we have plenty of lowlives on the roads. That portion is 30% of my premium BTW...
I don't care if you want to splatter yourself on the roadway but at least carry some insurance so it, and not someone else, pays for you to be scraped off the road. YMMV
What other people do is their choice. My only problem is that more responsible people pay for the dumb choices others make by paying higher insurance rates for just about everything. Here in Florida it is best to have uninsured motorist insurance as the State doesn't enforce the law unlike Georgia and we have plenty of lowlives on the roads. That portion is 30% of my premium BTW...
I don't care if you want to splatter yourself on the roadway but at least carry some insurance so it, and not someone else, pays for you to be scraped off the road. YMMV
greenwald
New member
I'm in the ATGATT camp myself and I won't have it any other way, but I won't tell others what to do as most should be adult enough (hopefully) to make their own bed.
What other people do is their choice. My only problem is that more responsible people pay for the dumb choices others make by paying higher insurance rates for just about everything. Here in Florida it is best to have uninsured motorist insurance as the State doesn't enforce the law unlike Georgia and we have plenty of lowlives on the roads. That portion is 30% of my premium BTW...
I don't care if you want to splatter yourself on the roadway but at least carry some insurance so it, and not someone else, pays for you to be scraped off the road. YMMV
All good points. Glad you pointed out how much the "Uninsured/ Under-insured" motorist costs you dearly on your motorcycle or auto premiums. It varies from state to state, and even higher here with my insurance company.
It's something the anti-helmet crowd always fails to acknowledge - your high-risk behavior ends up costing me money. Decisions other people make really do affect you and your family.
I realize few (if any) opinions ever change on this Forum - human nature to hold fast to 'how you do business.' While I don't label non-helmet or non-ATGATT users as stupid, it's without question higher risk than those of us who gear up. Individual decision? Sure - just like bungee-jumping, snake charming and cave diving. Just too bad insurance companies don't carve out a different rate for head injuries when not wearing a helmet.
They already separate smokers from the rest of us, as rates go. Maybe someday, they'll figure out to do the same for non-helmet use.
Like you - ATGATT. You cannot be "ATGATT most of the time," or "some of the time." It's like being partially pregnant. Remember what the last three letters stand for.
Blew snow all morning. Yuk. Winter's almost over, right?!
Last edited:
riderr1150gsadv
Well-known member
All good points. Glad you pointed out how much the "Uninsured/ Under-insured" motorist costs you dearly on your motorcycle or auto premiums. It varies from state to state, and even higher here with my insurance company.
It's something the anti-helmet crowd always fails to acknowledge - your high-risk behavior ends up costing me money. Decisions other people make really do affect you and your family.
I realize few (if any) opinions ever change on this Forum - human nature to hold fast to 'how you do business.' While I don't label non-helmet or non-ATGATT users as stupid, it's without question higher risk than those of us who gear up. Individual decision? Sure - just like bungee-jumping, snake charming and cave diving. Just too bad insurance companies don't carve out a different rate for head injuries when not wearing a helmet.
They already separate smokers from the rest of us, as rates go. Maybe someday, they'll figure out to do the same for non-helmet use.
Like you - ATGATT. You cannot be "ATGATT most of the time," or "some of the time." It's like being partially pregnant. Remember what the last three letters stand for.
Blew snow all morning. Yuk. Winter's almost over, right?!
In Europe the insurance companies look at each individual and how they drive/ride/behave and not at a group of people. This means that the responsible ones pay a lot less in premiums than the idiots causing the accidents. It is also virtually impossible to drive/ride without insurance as your vehicle will be towed/impounded as insurance companies immediately inform DMV when a policy is cancelled. Since getting a drivers license is a very expensive endeavor ($3K is not uncommon) people tend to be more responsible. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of morons there as well...
PS: it's warming up to the 70's down here and we did have some mild frost around Homestead yesterday AM ....
jnrugg
Member
Years ago I was on a group ride at our rally.
A group of 10-15 all in ATGATT and most riding BMW.
We stopped in a parking lot so a person with a slow leaking tire could go back to a gas station and get air.
While we waited, a guy on an RT I think rides by in boat shoes, shorts and t-shirt.
He sees us and stops in asking who we are, etc. Never had heard of MOA.
He told us he didn't ride much and I had the impression he was rather well to do.
Just another story.
A group of 10-15 all in ATGATT and most riding BMW.
We stopped in a parking lot so a person with a slow leaking tire could go back to a gas station and get air.
While we waited, a guy on an RT I think rides by in boat shoes, shorts and t-shirt.
He sees us and stops in asking who we are, etc. Never had heard of MOA.
He told us he didn't ride much and I had the impression he was rather well to do.
Just another story.
Once again, I can't control anyone but me. I can't control what the insurance companies do. Without seeing all the matrix data used, who really knows if helmetless fatalities figure into the rates.I read it and hear folks repeat it enough so maybe it does. We have a LOT of insurable wheeled items and accept that rates will always move higher for any reason.
ATGATT has evolved since a helmet was added to my kit in the 70's.
I wore one, I did not wear one, I had a MotoPD style leather earflap helmet at one point. I pretty much wear one 99% of the time.When I test ride a bike around our property, I do not gear up and accept my choice. If I crash doing that risky behavior and your rates skyrocket, I apologize for not thinking about you.
I fear peer pressure from some will add a inflatable vest to the "required to be accepted" mindset. I got chided for not having a one piece 'stich a few years back because it is the safest according to the group adding their thoughts. My Nolan helmet was not as safe as their Schuberth and my Olympia gloves were not long enough
I recently tested that particular combo and it was 100% acceptable results from my view.
For a land of folks wanting less regulations and more personal freedoms, I chuckle at times. I'll still be OK with MTGMTT.
ATGATT has evolved since a helmet was added to my kit in the 70's.
I wore one, I did not wear one, I had a MotoPD style leather earflap helmet at one point. I pretty much wear one 99% of the time.When I test ride a bike around our property, I do not gear up and accept my choice. If I crash doing that risky behavior and your rates skyrocket, I apologize for not thinking about you.
I fear peer pressure from some will add a inflatable vest to the "required to be accepted" mindset. I got chided for not having a one piece 'stich a few years back because it is the safest according to the group adding their thoughts. My Nolan helmet was not as safe as their Schuberth and my Olympia gloves were not long enough
I recently tested that particular combo and it was 100% acceptable results from my view.
For a land of folks wanting less regulations and more personal freedoms, I chuckle at times. I'll still be OK with MTGMTT.
jandhumphreyme
Member
Like Ron White says, " I have the right to remain silent, just not the ability"
"Cost to the System" is the rub in any society in which it's citizens wish to remain free to choose how best to live their own lives. There is NO one better to determine the cost/risk reward than the individual. This is one of the main reasons I'm a defender of the free market and dead set against socialized medicine and socialist societies in any form, but that is another discussion. Data done by some developed countries shows motorcycle riders are a very high risk group and do impact health care cost, this is fact see link here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5698029/. Our own members have pontificated in another thread how they either gave up riding or put off riding until the family circumstance permitted them to do so without putting undue stress on loved ones should they become injured or die in a pursuit which the themselves claimed to love. So I don't think risk is questioned by anyone.
I believe two things regarding motorcycle safety. One, we must tolerate some behavior we do not agree with, much like free speech and accept it no mater how distasteful it seems at times and share the costs of these decisions. Many hands make light work, many pocket books make little contributions do much. Failure to do so will give ammunition to those who wish to put activities, some we like (motorcycles), and some we do not, into basic "Cost" decisions. Motorcycle's are dangerous period, we know this, neither you nor I stand a chance against a 3,200 pound car at 40mph through and intersection, or a tree at 50mph when we leave the road or a 140lb deer that lands in our lap at 50mph. The study I posted and the last statment gives any politician the necessary ammunition to bang the drum to ban our beloved two wheels from the road for nothing but a "cost" decision.
Secondly, that motorcycle safety education before issuing a license, incentives for continued safety training, driver (automobile) awareness training, and modeling the behavior we wish to see, will do more in the long run to ensure our continued access to the public roads. These things will also help obtain our ultimate goal that is to see our brothers and sisters live long, and contented lives riding motorcycles.
"Cost to the System" is the rub in any society in which it's citizens wish to remain free to choose how best to live their own lives. There is NO one better to determine the cost/risk reward than the individual. This is one of the main reasons I'm a defender of the free market and dead set against socialized medicine and socialist societies in any form, but that is another discussion. Data done by some developed countries shows motorcycle riders are a very high risk group and do impact health care cost, this is fact see link here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5698029/. Our own members have pontificated in another thread how they either gave up riding or put off riding until the family circumstance permitted them to do so without putting undue stress on loved ones should they become injured or die in a pursuit which the themselves claimed to love. So I don't think risk is questioned by anyone.
I believe two things regarding motorcycle safety. One, we must tolerate some behavior we do not agree with, much like free speech and accept it no mater how distasteful it seems at times and share the costs of these decisions. Many hands make light work, many pocket books make little contributions do much. Failure to do so will give ammunition to those who wish to put activities, some we like (motorcycles), and some we do not, into basic "Cost" decisions. Motorcycle's are dangerous period, we know this, neither you nor I stand a chance against a 3,200 pound car at 40mph through and intersection, or a tree at 50mph when we leave the road or a 140lb deer that lands in our lap at 50mph. The study I posted and the last statment gives any politician the necessary ammunition to bang the drum to ban our beloved two wheels from the road for nothing but a "cost" decision.
Secondly, that motorcycle safety education before issuing a license, incentives for continued safety training, driver (automobile) awareness training, and modeling the behavior we wish to see, will do more in the long run to ensure our continued access to the public roads. These things will also help obtain our ultimate goal that is to see our brothers and sisters live long, and contented lives riding motorcycles.
pauls1150
MOA #24991, south of Los Angeles
Out riding this afternoon, on a major surface street in my neighborhood, I saw a guy riding, wearing a complete, full-coverage Captain America costume! He even had a shield on his back! 
I didn't notice if he was wearing a helmet or a skullcap, or even what bike he was on...
I didn't notice if he was wearing a helmet or a skullcap, or even what bike he was on...
couldn't believe my eyes
I've had some people in my Basic Rider Courses convinced they were Superman, then grab a giant handful of front brake....and suddenly they could fly !
Friedle
Out riding this afternoon, on a major surface street in my neighborhood, I saw a guy riding, wearing a complete, full-coverage Captain America costume! He even had a shield on his back!
I didn't notice if he was wearing a helmet or a skullcap, or even what bike he was on...
I've had some people in my Basic Rider Courses convinced they were Superman, then grab a giant handful of front brake....and suddenly they could fly !
Friedle
pglaves
#13338
I've had some people in my Basic Rider Courses convinced they were Superman, then grab a giant handful of front brake....and suddenly they could fly !
Friedle
That isn't flying. It is falling.
couldn't believe my eyes
I didn't say he flew very long.....or far. Mostly in a sharp diving trajectory with a hard landing. From Superman to Stupidman faster than a speeding Suzuki GZ 250.
Friedle
I didn't say he flew very long.....or far. Mostly in a sharp diving trajectory with a hard landing. From Superman to Stupidman faster than a speeding Suzuki GZ 250.
Friedle
greenwald
New member
I didn't say he flew very long.....or far. Mostly in a sharp diving trajectory with a hard landing. From Superman to Stupidman faster than a speeding Suzuki GZ 250.
Friedle
Wow! You still have the workhorse GZ-250's?
I've trained hundreds of new riders on that Suzuki bike, but they're all but phased out here now in WI.
YAMAHA just announced a renewed 2-yr. sponsorship at Road America, so my fleet will again be Star 250's, TW200's and TZ250's for the next two seasons.
