Couldn't believe my eyes

Paul_F said:

I would never give my opinion to another rider, especially a complete stranger, about the deficiencies of their riding gear. If such a rider were to ask about my riding gear, then of course I would state the benefits of what I wear.

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Paul, you're making altogether too much sense to have your post included in this thread. And I applaud you for it.

It appears that to some, this is all about bikers' rights. To most of us, its about our right to self-preservation.

Although I think riding without protection is poor risk management, and foolish, the key for me is to make sure I'm not the one doing it

BC1100S said:

Paul, you're making altogether too much sense to have your post included in this thread. And I applaud you for it.

It appears that to some, this is all about bikers' rights. To most of us, its about our right to self-preservation.

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key word in the above is 'self' Everyone has a right to protect ones self.....in a manner they see fit....for themselves.

Paul_F said:

When one of my nephews got his first bike, I immediately gave him David Hough's two Proficient Motorcycling books as well as his Street Strategies.

Unfortunately I doubt if a lot of riders, especially older riders getting back into the sport, have had rider training nor have been schooled in the importance of protective riding gear.

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I rode quite a lot when I was young up until I sold off a Kaw 1000LTD when we had twin daughters, then proceeded to put riding out of my mind for 28 years. At age 61 I decided to take up riding again and before buying a used F800GT I read Proficient Motorcycling and agree it's a great write up especially for those who care!

Protective gear is great for what it does: can keep you out of the burn unit (for bad road rash primarily) which is worth doing for sure in itself. Next comes a full-face helmet which is great for avoiding grinding your nose and lips off which is clearly worth doing. After that, the armored parts can offer a little protection for sure. So while it's great for these things, it won't help you much at all in sudden deceleration/blunt events. I watched my brother plow into a large buck broadside a 58mph and the bike's front wheel went under the deer and the deer effectively went thru the windshield and knocked him off into the oncoming traffic lane. No traffic was coming, and he rolled off the road virtually unscathed--his full face helmet clearly helped protect his face. He had a decent riding jacket, jeans on, boots on. What kept him from getting badly injured were: no oncoming traffic which was pure luck, and he managed to not hit any boulders, stumps, tree trunks, transmission line poles, etc off the side of the road. So yes, good gear helps in some areas, but in the areas that typically translate into fatality, they don't play nearly as big a role. That comes from riding behavior and occasional good fortune!

ncpbmw1953 said:

So yes, good gear helps in some areas, but in the areas that typically translate into fatality, they don't play nearly as big a role. That comes from riding behavior and occasional good fortune!

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Welcome back after 28 years out of the saddle!

When you say..."in the areas that typically translate into fatality..." that would be head injuries. And if your head contacts the pavement (or anything else) with significant G force you will die. A helmet plays a VERY significant role in keeping one alive. A back protector increases the likelihood that you'll be walking out of the hospital after an accident rather than being pushed out in a wheel chair. Armoured gloves decrease the chance of having your hands and fingers broken or worn away as you come off the bike and slide down the road. A quality jacket lessens the chance of a mirror stalk or similar sharp object (broken windscreen) impaling you as you fly through the front of your bike after colliding with an immovable object/animal. Sturdy boots can spare one the agony of broken ankles and feet. Question: How does one get around while one heals from a broken hand and a broken ankle? Answer: You don't.

So, while some (not you, Mr. Prior) make a bleating and facetious argument for "choice" and ride around in t-shirts, shorts and nice white running shoes, I'll keep wearing what has been proven to increase my chances of survival and preserving my dashing good looks.

BC1100S said:

Welcome back after 28 years out of the saddle!

When you say..."in the areas that typically translate into fatality..." that would be head injuries. And if your head contacts the pavement (or anything else) with significant G force you will die. A helmet plays a VERY significant role in keeping one alive. A back protector increases the likelihood that you'll be walking out of the hospital after an accident rather than being pushed out in a wheel chair. Armoured gloves decrease the chance of having your hands and fingers broken or worn away as you come off the bike and slide down the road. A quality jacket lessens the chance of a mirror stalk or similar sharp object (broken windscreen) impaling you as you fly through the front of your bike after colliding with an immovable object/animal. Sturdy boots can spare one the agony of broken ankles and feet. Question: How does one get around while one heals from a broken hand and a broken ankle? Answer: You don't.

So, while some (not you, Mr. Prior) make a bleating and facetious argument for "choice" and ride around in t-shirts, shorts and nice white running shoes, I'll keep wearing what has been proven to increase my chances of survival and preserving my dashing good looks.

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Valid points for sure. My main point was in sudden deceleration events protective gear has limited value. It's hard to find data that sorts out TYPES of helmets which would play a big role especially for facial trauma. But for helmet v no helmet, NHTSA's study suggests helmets definitely play a role in attenuating severity in head and facial injury, but perhaps not as much as one would hope. Apparently a lot has to do w/ crash specifics which is why I say you need a little luck too! It appears you get ~50% in RELATIVE risk reduction ON A POPULATION BASIS for severe head and facial trauma. While 50% sounds great and is a tool used by drug companies to demonstrate how you get a 50% reduction in heart attack w/ drug X, in the end your ABSOLUTE risk of SEVERE head/facial injury is only 3% of crashes on a population basis WITHOUT a helmet, and 2% with, hence the 50% relative risk redux.

But yes, I take advantage of whatever I can w/in reason. I don't use the airbag inflators which are available. I don't ride track suit. What I do is absolutely everything I can to reduce risk, short of not riding! I have a theory: the farther I stay away from traffic the less likely I'll collide with other traffic. I avoid predawn/predusk/nighttime riding whenever possible which is mainly a case of keeping risk for hitting wildlife down . I use the entire roadway to and including the far left side of the oncoming lane if it ultimately improves odds. So I do believe most of my protection comes from riding practices, but as I say, I'll take whatever else riding gear offers, and I do use all of my gear all of the time. I've been tempted to give up the TCX higher top boots in favor of something I can walk in, but once again I like having the extra protection and that is an area that has been shown to offer meaningful protection!

I see it all the time in Arizona especially cruiser guys. Tank top, shorts, tennis and no helmet. Yeah, it's hot but at least wear a helmet.

Can anyone say "Beating a dead horse"? I think we've gone beyond beating the dead horse with this thread, and are starting to run him thru a meat grinder. Although, I am sure "someone" will have a comment.

Rather read an oil thread! Seriously!! This is sick!

Re: post 146, I wonder how those statistics were obtained? Certainly not from ALL motorcycle crashes. A number of years ago I was involved in a crash on Beartooth Pass on the way to the rally in Gillette. A very competent GS rider came into my lane after encountering sand in the one and only passing lane on the highway. He ran into my bike (we had both slowed a lot) and collided not quite head on. We both fell over to our right. Hours to wait before a vehicle with a trailer showed up to haul us and our non-ride able bikes to the nearest city. It finally occurred to me ask myself if my head hit the pavement. Sure enough - big ding in the right side of the Schuberth helmet. That fall would not likely have killed me, but glad that the helmet rather than my head took the hit.

I was never questioned in any way about this crash. I asked some serious questions after I got home about why a highway department would leave a thin layer of sand on the one and only passing lane when all the rest of that highway was perfectly swept. No response. Guy who hit me had good insurance and paid for my loss of the motorcycle. I paid for some therapy on my left leg.

Yeah, just another story. If you are bored, I suggest you quit reading this thread.

Is the jockey beating this dead horse because he survived the falloff by wearing his helmet?

Paul_F said:

I would never give my opinion to another rider.....

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I was walking by a Kawasaki ZX14 rider a few year back at Deal's Gap when I overheard him tell his friends he was clocked at over 200 mph on his bike. I stopped and gave my opinion as follows, "No you weren't." I continued on my way after uttering this opinion. I was wearing ATGATT, well, almost. The helmet and gloves were on the bike but otherwise I was fully protected.

temesvar said:

Rather read an oil thread! Seriously!! This is sick!

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Then why aren't you reading an oil thread ?....

Would it help if I put Dyna Beads in my chaps?

PGlaves said:

Would it help if I put Dyna Beads in my chaps?

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Well if they are ass chaps some might roll out and some Harley rider might have to lay her down to avoid them than the lack of helmet and gear........

Russia apparently has a mandatory helmet law, but the rest of AGATT is optional ;o)

I see lane splitting is legal in Russia.

That video is proof we won the Cold War.....

CABNFVR said:

... I overheard him tell his friends he was clocked at over 200 mph on his bike. I stopped and gave my opinion as follows, "No you weren't."

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Nice.

On the FOGOST grading scale, Riding without a helmet earns you an F.
ATGATT is an A.
My typical grade would be B-. Work gloves and cowboy boots.
I give myself a C- when I am wearing plain old blue jeans.