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Couldn't believe my eyes
- Thread starter selyab
- Start date
shakeybone
New member
A little while ago I saw a CLC rider with no helmet, a polo shirt, and Penny loafers. I thought to myself "people still wear penny loafers?".
While I believe in responsible behavior....period...no matter the activity. Responsible behavior can be and is a matter of opinion . To the point that, [in some cases] it must become a matter of law.
It is very hard to argue the "safety" of "gear" in the case of an accident. But it is not for everyone one, for many reasons.
On a weekend trip, myself & 4 others. One guy was fully suited, almost new Aero suit, f/face, etc. He suddenly fell, @ a stop light . The rest of us rushed to help...picked up him & his ride...obvious heat stroke...thankfully mild. A police officer happened along said lets put him in my air-conditioned car. He [the rider] had street shorts & a tee under the suit.He redressed into pants, and continued on about an hour later. So in this case the suit "caused" the incident.
I used to work among police motorcycle officers....I can't count how many times they would come into the shop,in the summer & start striping down. Saying I need to get out of this "crap"for a while....17" boots, wool britches, L/sleeve shirt, tie, ballistic vest & [if uniform of the day] nylon "Ike" jacket.
Point being...it is indeed possible to "over-dress" we are all different & situations differ.....pick your poison.....
It is very hard to argue the "safety" of "gear" in the case of an accident. But it is not for everyone one, for many reasons.
On a weekend trip, myself & 4 others. One guy was fully suited, almost new Aero suit, f/face, etc. He suddenly fell, @ a stop light . The rest of us rushed to help...picked up him & his ride...obvious heat stroke...thankfully mild. A police officer happened along said lets put him in my air-conditioned car. He [the rider] had street shorts & a tee under the suit.He redressed into pants, and continued on about an hour later. So in this case the suit "caused" the incident.
I used to work among police motorcycle officers....I can't count how many times they would come into the shop,in the summer & start striping down. Saying I need to get out of this "crap"for a while....17" boots, wool britches, L/sleeve shirt, tie, ballistic vest & [if uniform of the day] nylon "Ike" jacket.
Point being...it is indeed possible to "over-dress" we are all different & situations differ.....pick your poison.....
pglaves
#13338
Come on down to State Highway 118 on the way to Big Bend National Park. Here you will see hordes of HD riding pirates riding without gear, ATBATT - All the Beer, All the Time. And you will see many BMW riders riding ATGATT. The peer group culture does make a difference.
As I read a BMW rider's letter to a Harley skin mag once, "We are a lot alike, except you dress like pirates, and we dress like armadillos."
AKsuited
New member
Come on down to State Highway 118 on the way to Big Bend National Park. Here you will see hordes of HD riding pirates riding without gear, ATBATT - All the Beer, All the Time. And you will see many BMW riders riding ATGATT. The peer group culture does make a difference.
As I read a BMW rider's letter to a Harley skin mag once, "We are a lot alike, except you dress like pirates, and we dress like armadillos."
That's one thing I like about the BMW tribe - you are allowed to ride ATGATT and wear hi-viz and full-face helmets and not get harassed about it. This was actually a factor in my choosing to ride BMW motorcycles.
Just using your example and by employing risk management when your friend decided to go riding might have taken into consideration that A) I need to wear protective gear to minimize the risk of serious injury. B) The gear I have decided to wear for protection also makes me warmer. C) Today is already a hot day and this gear will make me even hotter. D) wearing protective gear on this day which I have decided I need to mitigate risk of injury will also cause my body to possibly overheat. The conclusion might have been that he would not go riding that day because it's too hot to wear protective gear and stay cool. Some days it is too hot to ride safely and some days it is too cold based on the risks.
That's a decision based on risk assessment for a particular ride. Now maybe he did not have the experience with this particular heat/gear scenario the day it happened but when he rides in the future he will have this information to make this assessment.
Since I am the OP on this thread, I want to revisit my question. How was the decision made to ride in beach attire? For me some items are not negotiable because there is no minimum speed at which I can accept my skull contacting asphalt but I do have more than one set of riding gear and they do not all provide the same level of protection. Any time I select one other than the one that provides the most protection, I assess that ride in terms of how fast it might be, how much traffic there might be, will it rain etc. then make the decision based on how I perceive the risk.
So the guy on the GTL made a decision too. I am interested in whether that decision was based on simply it is hot? Was it based on seeing others riding and doing the same thing? Does not having helmet laws in a particular state not only allow people to ride without helmets but does it encourage people to make that decision to not ride with one? How much thought was given in his decision?
P.S. Anyone using Mobil 1?
ncpbmw1953
Member
If only ATGATT would keep you alive or out of the ICU, but unfortunately it rarely will. It definitely helps with various manifestations of road rash and w/ avoiding some bone fractures, but in the end what will keep you alive and out of the ICU is avoiding the big blunt and not so blunt direct trauma, and in those scenarios ATGATT doesn't offer a whole lot of protection. Even so, I'll happily take what protection I can. I also add the hi-vis piece in my riding jacket and use a white RF-1200 in keeping w/ any possible risk reduction available to me....short of not riding ;o)
ncpbmw1953
Member
Yes, one shouldn't bundle up in multiple layers and ride for long periods in very hot and humid ambient temps as there is no way to stay cool enough. There are scenarios where it will be nigh to impossible to keep yourself cool enough in anything short of shorts, no helmet and a T shirt. This being said, I simply wouldn't do it for any length of time. No way will I ride in shorts, t-shirt and no helmet!
On a 10K mile x-country, into Canada and back last year we were in 112F temps for 3 straight hours, fully geared up. But it was around Las Vegas and humidity was low, so the $19 Hyperkewl vest took care of overheating. What it really does is keep you from needing to drink as much water since sweat really provides the cooling until you run dry.
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
My son-in-law is a professional firefighter and has been on the job for nearly eight years; he also works on an ambulance crew which is part of the hospital. He remarked once about how his attitude has changed over the years towards motorcyclists he assists at accident sites. He said his gut response to seeing an injured or dead motorcyclist who wore zero protective equipment has gone from sympathetic to anger. He and his peers get angry that someone's poor choice has put them in the position of dealing with the gruesome results. Of course it is not just the decision not to wear a helmet that angers these guys. All too often it involves alcohol, lack of training/skills and riding too fast.
I'm not for mandatory helmet laws for adults, but to say that the decision not to wear protective gear does not hurt anyone else is false. Someone must clean up the mess, treat the injured, deal with the family who may now be unable to make it financially and pay the bill for it all.
I live in Harley land where the overhelming majority of the riders wear no protective gear other than a$$less chaps (because they are a fashion statement). I get looks like I'm from deep space, and now that I wear an air vest they are truely puzzled. So be it, but I will show little compassion for an intoxicated, unprotected motorcycling dilettante that ends up in the hospital or on a slab.
I'm not for mandatory helmet laws for adults, but to say that the decision not to wear protective gear does not hurt anyone else is false. Someone must clean up the mess, treat the injured, deal with the family who may now be unable to make it financially and pay the bill for it all.
I live in Harley land where the overhelming majority of the riders wear no protective gear other than a$$less chaps (because they are a fashion statement). I get looks like I'm from deep space, and now that I wear an air vest they are truely puzzled. So be it, but I will show little compassion for an intoxicated, unprotected motorcycling dilettante that ends up in the hospital or on a slab.
pglaves
#13338
And that is why there is vented gear, evaporative vests and other garments, and ways to stay well hydrated. GGATT = good gear all the time.
pglaves
#13338
This is simply not true. Take a cue from the Bedouins in the desert. Fully covered with loose, light colored clothing from head to toes. Shorts and a T shirt would kill them in short order.
There is excellent hot weather protective riding gear available. And cooling strategies that use controlled air flow and evaporative cooling. This will keep you cooler (while moving) than exposing skin to direct sunlight in shorts and T shirts.
All that said, if [that] makes the ride uncomfortable & not enjoyable to the rider in question...then going without, is HIS decision to make.
pglaves
#13338
Of course. People are not required to make good decisions. And other people are not required to think those poor decisions are good ideas.
I am not arguing about freedom. I am arguing about dumb vs smart decisions.
roamingbeemer
roamingbeemer
I think it is great to have that much freedom!
How did seat belt use become so ingrained as a culture in the US? Unless I am missing it I have not heard any lobbying to make seat belts voluntary.
Where I grew up in Canada wearing a helmet is as automatic and obvious as wearing seat belts today. BTW I am totally ATGATT and I wear seat belts but it is so American to see helmetless riders.
How did seat belt use become so ingrained as a culture in the US? Unless I am missing it I have not heard any lobbying to make seat belts voluntary.
Where I grew up in Canada wearing a helmet is as automatic and obvious as wearing seat belts today. BTW I am totally ATGATT and I wear seat belts but it is so American to see helmetless riders.
Seat belts? No doubt helpful in most cases- especially ejection. Not so much for entrapment
Let's see.....I think usage became ingrained due to-
Incessant beeping if not buckled up.
Auto "sweep" chest restraint that made you feel- "it's there anyway".
The computer in the vehicle records whether you are "belted" or not.
In many states, usage is requires for at least some age groups- if not all drivers. (there are even "seat belt road-blocks).
I think it's referred to as a Nanny State
OM
Yes and again many think that riding a motorcycle period is a dumb decision....no matter what ya wear.
And I'm actually not arguing anything. If a person makes a decision that does not harm me, it is his decision to make, and he that will suffer the consequences if they happen. I have no right to argue against him....it's none of my business.
Why would you have disdain about something that does not harm....you?
Or is it my way or the highway?
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
Ah, but it does. It negatively impacts members of my family who are first responders and medical professionals, wastes my tax dollars spent dealing with the results of dumb choices, damages my image among the general public, hurts my image with politicians who may react to their foolishness by passing more restrictive laws and increases the cost of my motorcycle and health insurance. Since I am not a proponent of mandatory helmet laws my disdain is a small price for the foolish to endure.
