Time to get a new BMW

bmwdean · Sep 12, 2017

rudyinla said:
Having a Nav integrated into a bike doesn't preclude adding another device if the rider chooses. My Garmin has sent me on the wrong path in cities and the wilderness quite a few times over the years. I download routes and music into my phone if I think cell service might be spotty. There's nothing keeping the bike manufacturers from installing satellite receivers. Sirius is satellite based, just on a different network. I still love paper maps though. They're fun to peruse.

I have a Nav5 on my '15 RT and a Nav6 on my '17 RT. However, my AAA membership gives me access to all the paper maps for "free." Frankly, those are what I use The Navs are too hard to read on a moving motorcycle. Moreover, at my age I grew up with paper maps, not GPSs. So I use them. I like them.

Don't laugh -- here is the GPS screen I use most often on my bikes. Now this is what I call easy to read! Love it!

sailorlite · Sep 12, 2017

Ambient Temp 82.4 deg. F: This happens to equal 28.0 deg. C. The ambient temps that are displayed are translations of Celsius temps and change in increments of 0.5C or 0.9F. Why doesn't BMW program Ambient Temp to read either whole degrees or half degrees F instead of up and down in 0.9 increments?

The temp sensor must be sending a voltage signal whose ranges are first read in C and then converted to F. Seems to me it wouldn't be too tough to ask the incoming voltage to display F directly to nearest the half degree F instead of the weird 0.9F increments.

gsinnc · Sep 12, 2017

bmwdean said:
I have a Nav5 on my '15 RT and a Nav6 on my '17 RT. However, my AAA membership gives me access to all the paper maps for "free." Frankly, those are what I use The Navs are too hard to read on a moving motorcycle. Moreover, at my age I grew up with paper maps, not GPSs. So I use them. I like them.

Don't laugh -- here is the GPS screen I use most often on my bikes. Now this is what I call easy to read! Love it!

I believe that screen is only available on the Nav VI

bmwdean · Sep 12, 2017

gsinnc said:
I believe that screen is only available on the Nav VI

True. The Nav V will not receive data from the RT. It can only show GPS-generated info. Put the Nav VI on the same RT and it receives motorcycle generated data, like ambient temp, engine temp, and other info. That is it will show it if the m/c transmits it.

gsinnc · Sep 12, 2017

bmwdean said:
True. The Nav V will not receive data from the RT. It can only show GPS-generated info. Put the Nav VI on the same RT and it receives motorcycle generated data, like ambient temp, engine temp, and other info. That is it will show it if the m/c transmits it.

Hmmm ... so does the Nav 6 also allow the RT to get all the added info the GS used to get with the Nav5?

Digtlartst · Sep 12, 2017

bmwdean said:
I have a Nav5 on my '15 RT and a Nav6 on my '17 RT. However, my AAA membership gives me access to all the paper maps for "free." Frankly, those are what I use The Navs are too hard to read on a moving motorcycle. Moreover, at my age I grew up with paper maps, not GPSs. So I use them. I like them.

Don't laugh -- here is the GPS screen I use most often on my bikes. Now this is what I call easy to read! Love it!

Interesting -- that's one way to have a big speedometer readout while listening to the bike audio (since playing bike audio knocks out the bike's speedo readout).

gsinnc · Sep 12, 2017

Digtlartst said:
Interesting -- that's one way to have a big speedometer readout while listening to the bike audio (since playing bike audio knocks out the bike's speedo readout).

HA !! Someone else who hates the speedo is overridden by the bike Audio!

marcopolo · Sep 12, 2017

gsinnc said:
I believe that screen is only available on the Nav VI

Not quite correct. That screen is certainly available on the Nav V, but as pointed out, the RT was not able to transfer that sort of bike info to the Nav. I have a 2015 GSA, and have both a Nav V, and a Nav VI. I have been able to get bike info -- like that shown in the earlier photo, and more (up to sixteen data elements are possible at one time) -- on the V and the VI from the get go. That's because the GS/GSA were set up to send it to the Navigator. Why the RT never did is another mystery. Obviously now the RT will send that info to a Nav VI.

gsinnc · Sep 12, 2017

marcopolo said:
Not quite correct. That screen is certainly available on the Nav V, but as pointed out, the RT was not able to transfer that sort of bike info to the Nav. I have a 2015 GSA, and have both a Nav V, and a Nav VI. I have been able to get bike info -- like that shown in the earlier photo, and more (up to sixteen data elements are possible at one time) -- on the V and the VI from the get go. That's because the GS/GSA were set up to send it to the Navigator. Why the RT never did is another mystery. Obviously now the RT will send that info to a Nav VI.

Exactly .... but it sounded like Jeff Dean was able to get that same data using the Nav6 on his RTW but you can not get that same data on the Nav5 on the RTW. I thought as you stated it was a "bike interface" and not a GPS feature. :scratch

alancoles · Sep 12, 2017

gsinnc said:
Exactly .... but it sounded like Jeff Dean was able to get that same data using the Nav6 on his RTW but you can not get that same data on the Nav5 on the RTW. I thought as you stated it was a "bike interface" and not a GPS feature.

It is very easy to get confused by this.

It is not a matter of it being an RTW or not an RTW. it is a matter of it being a 2017 RT vs an earlier RT. Jeff now has a 2017 R1200RT so he is now able to get the same data (think it is all the same) on the RT as has been available on 2013~+ GS models (so for the GS it can be said that it is a GSW feature, unlike the RTW). All the info exists on both the 2013+ GS and the 2014+ RT, it is just that BMW choose not to make it available to the GPS mount (and therefore to the GPS) on the RT until the 2017 model year.

IIRC correctly, it is also not a Nav-V vs Nav-VI issue. I've only used my Nav-V (since sold) only on my 2014 RTW and a 2013 GSW. It, like my Nav-VI, would not show the data Jeff referred to on the 2014 RT but would on GS. I stand to be corrected, but I think the Nav-V will show that data on on the 2017 RT.

gsinnc · Sep 12, 2017

AlanColes said:
It is very easy to get confused by this.

It is not a matter of it being an RTW or not an RTW. it is a matter of it being a 2017 RT vs an earlier RT. Jeff now has a 2017 R1200RT so he is now able to get the same data (think it is all the same) on the RT as has been available on 2013~+ GS models (so for the GS it can be said that it is a GSW feature, unlike the RTW). All the info exists on both the 2013+ GS and the 2014+ RT, it is just that BMW choose not to make it available to the GPS mount (and therefore to the GPS) on the RT until the 2017 model year.

IIRC correctly, it is also not a Nav-V vs Nav-VI issue. I've only used my Nav-V (since sold) only on my 2014 RTW and a 2013 GSW. It, like my Nav-VI, would not show the data Jeff referred to on the 2014 RT but would on GS. I stand to be corrected, but I think the Nav-V will show that data on on the 2017 RT.

OK ... now that is what I thought! It is the bike's interface that was changed for 2017. The confusing part was Jeff in his original post referred to using it on both his 2015 and 2017 RT's! Whew .... thought for a minute I was going to have to buy the Nav6 to have the added stuff on my '16 RTW.

Thanks for the clarification. I know it has been on the GS's for some time as I ride with 2 GSW owners and have the added stuff.

bmwdean · Sep 12, 2017

Ok, ok. I went back out to my garage to see if I can add any clarity to this discussion.

I put the Nav5 on my 2017 RT and, as noted above, the bike interface worked just as it did with the Nav6. No difference. The photo above, which is my Nav6 looks exactly like the Nav5 screen that appeared on my '17 RT.

Then I put the Nav5 back on the 2015 RT, and not only is there no bike interface (using the same Nav5 that had just worked perfectly on my '17 RT), but I could not even get the four-squares-screen I showed in my photo above to appear without the interface but with one or more blank squares. No squares at all. Perhaps I just did not know how to get them to appear on the '15 RT.

So, as noted in posts above, the '17 bike interface to the GPS exists and works, both for Nav5 and Nav6. There is no '15 RT interface, but the GPS is not the issue.

Why did Munich decide to delay this interface to the 2017 model? Who knows?

gsinnc · Sep 12, 2017

bmwdean said:
Ok, ok. I went back out to my garage to see if I can add any clarity to this discussion.

I put the Nav5 on my 2017 RT and, as noted above, the bike interface worked just as it did with the Nav6. No difference. The photo above, which is my Nav6 looks exactly like the Nav5 screen that appeared on my '17 RT.

Then I put the Nav5 back on the 2015 RT, and not only is there no bike interface (using the same Nav5 that had just worked perfectly on my '17 RT), but I could not even get the four-squares-screen I showed in my photo above to appear without the interface but with one or more blank squares. No squares at all. Perhaps I just did not know how to get them to appear on the '15 RT.

So, as noted in posts above, the '17 bike interface to the GPS exists and works, both for Nav5 and Nav6. There is no '15 RT interface, but the GPS is not the issue.

Why did Munich decide to delay this interface to the 2017 model? Who knows?

Did you try the Nav6 on the 2015 RT? I suspect it will work the same as the Nav5 but that was my real question.

bmwdean · Sep 12, 2017

gsinnc said:
Did you try the Nav6 on the 2015 RT? I suspect it will work the same as the Nav5 but that was my real question.

Correct. The Nav5 and Nav6 worked the same. The issue is the RTs, not the GPSs.

T-foiler · Sep 12, 2017

In the picture you posted of the four way split, how accurate does the compass display? Will it show for example nnw. Or is there another window on the gps that has better detail for a compass? I have a 17 but never owned a gps for a vehicle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gsinnc · Sep 12, 2017

bmwdean said:
Correct. The Nav5 and Nav6 worked the same. The issue is the RTs, not the GPSs.

Well the good news is I don't have a reason to run out for a Nav6 now. Bad news is would be nice to have the added screen options.

Thanks for checking and clarifying.

marcopolo · Sep 13, 2017

T-foiler said:
In the picture you posted of the four way split, how accurate does the compass display? Will it show for example nnw. Or is there another window on the gps that has better detail for a compass? I have a 17 but never owned a gps for a vehicle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a completely separate compass page, with a circular compass face, and pointer showing your direction. If you're navigating a route, you'll have a second pointer which shows the direction of your ultimate destination.

The page you saw in that earlier photo shows only data, and you can use the scroll wheel on the handlebar to easily move from one, to two, to four, and to sixteen data elements. While sixteen is the most data elements you can display at any one time, there's a longer list of possibilities, and it's easy to change them.

bmwdean · Sep 13, 2017

marcopolo said:
There is a completely separate compass page, with a circular compass face, and pointer showing your direction. If you're navigating a route, you'll have a second pointer which shows the direction of your ultimate destination.

The page you saw in that earlier photo shows only data, and you can use the scroll wheel on the handlebar to easily move from one, to two, to four, and to sixteen data elements. While sixteen is the most data elements you can display at any one time, there's a longer list of possibilities, and it's easy to change them.

The compass circle depends only on the internal GPS, whether Nav5 or Nav6, and does not require interface data coming from the bike. Therefore. the compass circle shows up on '15RTs with either Nav.

The issue arises only when you need the motorcycle interface for data, as in "Ambient Temp." You cannot get that from a '15 RT.

alancoles · Sep 13, 2017

I've mentioned this before in another thread, but with the breadth of this discussion, it should probably be repeated here.

It is my understanding that the data differences between the GSW and the 2014-2016 RTW is due to it being carried via a LIN bus connection that was present on the GSW from the beginning but only setup on the RTW for the 2017 model year. I haven't heard or read anything to indicate if it is a wiring harness issue or an ECU issue.

Like others, I am frustrated that my 2014 RT can't access and display this data, even though (I believe) the RT sensors are picking up all of that data and it is simply not being made available to the 2014-2016 RT GPS connector. It woud be nice to know if a software update on on of the bike's ECUs would correct that or if it is a wiring issue, etc., especially for anyone having to replace an ECU or wiring harness. Hopefully no one finds themseleves in that situation, but sooner or later someone will and the current lack of technical info makes it impossible to know if a retro-fit is possible. I've ridden both and very much like the access to the additional data, but I wouldn't spend the kind of money needed to do that unless the necessary part were being replaced for some other larger reason.

gsinnc · Sep 13, 2017

AlanColes said:
I've mentioned this before in another thread, but with the breadth of this discussion, it should probably be repeated here.

It is my understanding that the data differences between the GSW and the 2014-2016 RTW is due to it being carried via a LIN bus connection that was present on the GSW from the beginning but only setup on the RTW for the 2017 model year. I haven't heard or read anything to indicate if it is a wiring harness issue or an ECU issue.

Like others, I am frustrated that my 2014 RT can't access and display this data, even though (I believe) the RT sensors are picking up all of that data and it is simply not being made available to the 2014-2016 RT GPS connector. It woud be nice to know if a software update on on of the bike's ECUs would correct that or if it is a wiring issue, etc., especially for anyone having to replace an ECU or wiring harness. Hopefully no one finds themseleves in that situation, but sooner or later someone will and the current lack of technical info makes it impossible to know if a retro-fit is possible. I've ridden both and very much like the access to the additional data, but I wouldn't spend the kind of money needed to do that unless the necessary part were being replaced for some other larger reason.

I share your frustration but honestly most of the additional data is just "nice to have" and nothing I "need"! My Nav5 tells me everything i need to know and the RT tells me the rest. I just don't understand why BMW would not have fixed this in 2014 with the RTW. And yes certainly not enough to make me spend the $$ to get it.

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