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Thread: Schuberth C4 and Sena SC1

  1. #1

    Schuberth C4 and Sena SC1

    Hello guys ( especially for the ones considering buying Schuberth C4 with SC1 communication system), this is my review of both:
    The SC1 (2/5 stars)
    Schuberth C4 (5/5)
    Both as a package 2/5
    I loved the idea of the integrated system within the new helmet and I couldnít wait to test it this weekend. Here is my experience and impression of the new SC1 after 640 miles:
    Letís start with the charging port on the unit (Micro USB)- it is very difficult to hold the helmet in one hand and with other hand insert the male port while trying to have the port cover open. You need to have the helmet upside down on a surface and careful not to scratch the helmet. But that is not the only design issue. The biggest issue is that you will not be able to leave the helmet seating on a surface to charge as the design and location of the port might cause the port to damage or disconnect as it pushes against the surface. Wrong place for the port!
    Now letís move to actual usability:
    At first, all was great (beside my wrong configuration of need to speak load to open intercom connections- my throat hurt after today ride. I connected my SC1 with my wife SRC on Schuberth C3 Pro and my NAV V. Nice at the beginning, no issues. Then the problems start: if my lid was open, I could not initiate connection with voice command because of the microphone location, so lid must be close all the time.
    Most of the time, my wife could not understand what I say and I had to repeat over and over, loader and loader (we use her helmet with my Arai XD4 with Sena SMH10 and no issues at all). From time to time she told me I sound like inside a jar or muffled.
    In many occasions, I saw message on my NAV V: Bluetooth disconnected (and I still could hear instructions from the navigation).
    In some other instances the navigation voice commands cut off or sound not clear at all (like you hear when you have bad wireless connection on your phone).
    Now, letís talk on buttons functions: very hard to use it with gloves on, almost not possible at all!
    Charging indicator: light is not easily visible if you look at the helmet from the side. You need to always lift the helmet and look at the inside of the helmet and look for the color.
    Frankly, I am very disappointed, I chose the helmet because of the SC1 system (as I was looking at different helmet for a while).
    I hope Sena going to improve it soon and come with SW version updates that will improve connectivity, sound quality and sensitivity.
    Now as for the Schuberth C4 as helmet only:
    Great helmet all around! Great ventilation (only light comment is on the new mechanism of the spring to open the chin vent - it is to soft and open /close with any light touch. Also it is increasing significantly the noise level inside the helmet, when it closed the helmet is very quite.
    Very quiet inside and make the ride more enjoyable.
    The top ventilation is very good and actually doing very good work.
    I choose size L (usually I buy size M) and it is perfect!
    I wish it will work better with the SC1.
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  2. #2
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    SW Iowa
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    When you say you normally wear a medium, what are the last couple helmets you have owned?
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  3. #3
    Registered User Anyname's Avatar
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    So Schuberth has finally decided to deliver them to US based shops?
    BMW R bike rider, horizontally opposed to everything...

  4. #4
    Registered User Anyname's Avatar
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    928
    I purchased a C4 from Max BMW last week. So far my impressions are:

    1) The face shield opening is much larger than on the C3. I can even see the instrument cluster on my KTM Duke 390 without tilting my head forward. The side visibility is much better as well.
    2) Venting is definitely better, but still not a strong point. I don't have to open the face shield a notch at every traffic light, but I often do. I always had to open it with the C3. I haven't tried the C4 without the chin bar's triangular cloth seal. I took the triangle out of my C3 immediately since it made the helmet feel claustrophobic and stuffy. I expect if I removed that triangle from the C4, it would ventilate even better.
    3) Much more space between the chin bar and my face. The C3 was a very close fit.
    4) For me at least, the fit on my cheeks and around my ears is better. On my early C3, there was always some pressure on both. I have size large in both helmets.
    5) I'm haven't made my mind up on the noise control yet. On my R1200R with a Wunderlich sport fairing/tall windshield and without earplugs, there seems to be a bit more wind noise than the C3, although with earplugs in, it seems quieter than the C3 with ear plugs. Mechanical noises are still well damped. When riding the KTM, with a National Cycle "Deflector" shield and no earplugs, the C4 seems quieter than the C3 in the same circumstances. This may be one of those YMMV items based on the characteristics of the bike.
    6) The liner materials are nicer than on my early C3 and the chin bar locking mechanism seems sturdier.

    I haven't purchased the comm system yet so I have no comments on that.
    BMW R bike rider, horizontally opposed to everything...

  5. #5
    DJimmy
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Missoula, Montana
    Posts
    28

    SC1 is old technology. What's was Sena thinking

    The SC1 is based on the Sena 10U which has been on the market for a number of years. Sena came out with the 20S a couple years ago and has announced the 30K is to be released soon. Why would they bring out a new product like this with old technology. I was all set to buy a C4 helmet but have decided not to because I don't want to take two steps back with the communications system, which I use all the time. I know several other people who have also decided not to buy the C4 and I'm sure there are other riders out there feeling the same way.



    Quote Originally Posted by eitan.zadok View Post
    Hello guys ( especially for the ones considering buying Schuberth C4 with SC1 communication system), this is my review of both:
    The SC1 (2/5 stars)
    Schuberth C4 (5/5)
    Both as a package 2/5
    I loved the idea of the integrated system within the new helmet and I couldnít wait to test it this weekend. Here is my experience and impression of the new SC1 after 640 miles:
    Letís start with the charging port on the unit (Micro USB)- it is very difficult to hold the helmet in one hand and with other hand insert the male port while trying to have the port cover open. You need to have the helmet upside down on a surface and careful not to scratch the helmet. But that is not the only design issue. The biggest issue is that you will not be able to leave the helmet seating on a surface to charge as the design and location of the port might cause the port to damage or disconnect as it pushes against the surface. Wrong place for the port!
    Now letís move to actual usability:
    At first, all was great (beside my wrong configuration of need to speak load to open intercom connections- my throat hurt after today ride. I connected my SC1 with my wife SRC on Schuberth C3 Pro and my NAV V. Nice at the beginning, no issues. Then the problems start: if my lid was open, I could not initiate connection with voice command because of the microphone location, so lid must be close all the time.
    Most of the time, my wife could not understand what I say and I had to repeat over and over, loader and loader (we use her helmet with my Arai XD4 with Sena SMH10 and no issues at all). From time to time she told me I sound like inside a jar or muffled.
    In many occasions, I saw message on my NAV V: Bluetooth disconnected (and I still could hear instructions from the navigation).
    In some other instances the navigation voice commands cut off or sound not clear at all (like you hear when you have bad wireless connection on your phone).
    Now, letís talk on buttons functions: very hard to use it with gloves on, almost not possible at all!
    Charging indicator: light is not easily visible if you look at the helmet from the side. You need to always lift the helmet and look at the inside of the helmet and look for the color.
    Frankly, I am very disappointed, I chose the helmet because of the SC1 system (as I was looking at different helmet for a while).
    I hope Sena going to improve it soon and come with SW version updates that will improve connectivity, sound quality and sensitivity.
    Now as for the Schuberth C4 as helmet only:
    Great helmet all around! Great ventilation (only light comment is on the new mechanism of the spring to open the chin vent - it is to soft and open /close with any light touch. Also it is increasing significantly the noise level inside the helmet, when it closed the helmet is very quite.
    Very quiet inside and make the ride more enjoyable.
    The top ventilation is very good and actually doing very good work.
    I choose size L (usually I buy size M) and it is perfect!
    I wish it will work better with the SC1.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
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    16

    Sc1

    I just bought a C4 with SC1 (standard). Couldn't be happier with helmet. The SC1 gave me pairing problems, but that was because I didn't read the pairing directions closely enough. My dealer helped me with pairing to my '14 RT. Once paired, I was extremely happy. Sound quality was excellent. Music is crystal clear and there is actually some bass in the tunes. My dealer told me the SC1 was based on the Sena 20S.

  7. #7
    DJimmy
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Missoula, Montana
    Posts
    28
    Your dealer is wrong. I've communicated with Schuberth direct and they tell me it is based on the 10U, not the 20S. Other online sources have also confirmed this. I own both the Sena SMH10 and the 20S and have had numerous pairing problems with both. If you are only pairing to one source (RT) it should work fine, but if you try to add your phone and your Nav, forget it. Sena tech support has told me only two items can be paired, not three and I can confirm that. I finally gave up trying to pair the bike (2013 RT and 2015 K1600), because I prefer to have access to my phone and Nav. I use the phone for music. Add intercom into the mix and it gets even more messy.
    I'm happy to hear of your positive experience and I hope it continues. I use my Sena all the time, but it has given me huge amounts of frustration and continues to do so. My hope is that the 30K will be a good step forward, but must admit, I am skeptical. I've thought about switching to the Cardo product but have so much time and money invested in the Sena, as do my riding buddies, so no one wants to change, at this time.


    Quote Originally Posted by 107536 View Post
    I just bought a C4 with SC1 (standard). Couldn't be happier with helmet. The SC1 gave me pairing problems, but that was because I didn't read the pairing directions closely enough. My dealer helped me with pairing to my '14 RT. Once paired, I was extremely happy. Sound quality was excellent. Music is crystal clear and there is actually some bass in the tunes. My dealer told me the SC1 was based on the Sena 20S.

  8. #8
    Registered User
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    Apr 2006
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    Tucson, Arizona
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    Sc1

    dirty jimmy,

    I heartily agree about pairing problems with Sena. Right now, my SC1 is paired to the RT's audio system and the Nav V. I 'd rather not get phone calls while riding, so I'm happy with what I have right now. My previous setup was on a Neotec with an SR10 paired to the phone and audio system. I also got GPS voice directions, but I could not duplicate whatever pairing took place for that to happen. It took me a week of frustration to get any sound through the Sena speakers. I can say that the sound quality is vastly superior from the SC1 compared to the SR10. Perhaps Schuberth used 20S speakers in the helmet, but I don't know that.

    Rick

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Covington, LA
    Posts
    89

    Size

    So, I'm curious about the comment about - used to wear a large, now a medium. I wear a large in the C3Pro, now the the C4 large feels a just a tick bit wobbly on my head. Did you have the C3, or C3Pro? Anyone else experience a size difference? Agree with the better visibility, much better. Venting much better too. Comfort is better, albeit as I mentioned feels too large.

    As for the SC1, I had the 20s on my C3Pro. The speakers and sound of the SC1 is better for me. I still don't like the buttons yet, but I really like not having a boom or corded Mic to adjust every time I take helmet off. Just for me it was fairly easy to connect, but I looked at the web first, not that worthless booklet.
    Greg

  10. #10
    Fastman Fastman's Avatar
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    Mar 2003
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    Webster Groves, MO
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    83
    I have a C3 (medium) with a Sena 20S installed. The 20S is paired to a Nav VI (GPS audio and telephone calls - iPhone) and a SM10 (iPod music and Valentine One audio). As currently set up, the "system" generally works well for me, especially when riding solo. I usually plug a set of Shure SE-215 earphones into the 20S unless it's a quick trip, in which case I fail back to the 20S speakers. Long preamble, but my C3 is getting a bit long in the tooth and is coming due for replacement. I am a big fan of Schuberth and REALLY wanted to move to the C4 for the extra visibility, ventilation and latest helmet tech. However, as others have stated, I'm not interested in stepping backward in BT communicator tech. The 20S is fiddly enough when riding with a friend, so I can't imagine willingly making it worse. Also, as near as I can tell, there's no option to plug in a set of earbuds, so for anything other than a quick errand, I'll have to blast the audio loud enough to get through a set of earplugs and lose lots of fidelity. With the integrated microphone(s) and speakers, seems like Schuberth has decided for it's customers which comm system they will use. Unless there's a hack to use a 20S/30K in place of the SC1, it appears the C4 isn't in my future.
    Fastman
    '86 R65, '96 R1100RS, '04 K1200RS, '13 K1300S 30th Anniversary - SOLD
    '16 R1200GSA
    The most notable thing you can leave for posterity is your name...signed Anonymous

  11. #11
    Registered User lkraus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasterling View Post
    ...With the integrated microphone(s) and speakers, seems like Schuberth has decided for it's customers which comm system they will use. Unless there's a hack to use a 20S/30K in place of the SC1, it appears the C4 isn't in my future.
    Pretty much the conclusion I reached last spring. I was happy with the my C3 and SMH10 combo, but the helmet was getting tired, particularly the liner. I had waited for the C4 introduction, but I really did not like the idea of paying a premium for a helmet that included wiring, antenna and speakers and then having to pay an additional high price for proprietary electronics to make them work. The best thing about the introduction of the C4 is that prices came down on the C3 Pro, which works fine with the communicator I already have. Selection is getting limited but deals are still available on the C3 Pro.

    I often see Sena being blamed for many problems with pairing and sound quality, usually when trying to combine phone, GPS, and BMW audio to the helmet. I had trouble understanding all the complaints since I've had no issues using the SMH10 with my Samsung phone connected through my Zumo 590. After the initial pairing, it all just works, regardless of the order in which the devices are turned on. Reading more carefully, the issues seem to show up only when the BMW audio system is included in the mix. So maybe the blame for the problems should be directed to BMW rather than Sena?
    Larry
    2006 R1200RT

  12. #12
    Registered User
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    Unhappy Schuberth C4 and SC1 - Any Success?

    Has anyone had success with the C4 and the SC1?

    My wife and I recently purchased C4 helmets and the associated SC1 Standard communication systems.

    We thought we had pretty simple requirements:
    - Rider-to-pillion intercom
    - Rider paired to Zumo 595 for voice directions & music
    - Pillion paired to iPhone for music
    - Voice activated intercom overrides other sources

    So far we've not been able to find the configuration that does this.

    Has anyone had success with reasonable C4/SC1 setups?

    Thanks, Geoff

  13. #13
    Registered User
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    Follow up on previous post - C4 / SC1 CAUTION

    I contacted Schuberth concerning the C4 / SC1 setup and received the following response:

    My Question:
    My wife and I recently purchased C4 helmets (1 M & 1 XL) and two SC1 Standard communication sets. Our goal is to have rider-pillion intercom while the rider is also getting voice direction from a GPS unit (Garmin Zumo 595) and my wife can listen to music from a paired iPhone. We need to have the intercom set to highest priority. Unfortunately, as soon a music or GPS instruction are received the intercom is lost.
    Manual section 7.1 says Bluetooth Stereo Music should be paired according to section 5.1 (which is mobile phone pairing). Section 13 says Mobile Phone pairing is higher priority than Intercom but Bluetooth Stereo Music is lower priority than Intercom. How can this be if they are paired identically?
    After an initial failure to get proper function, I changed VOX Phone to Disable & VOX Intercom to Enable. I still don't get proper function.
    What is the proper configuration to get the Intercom (voice activated) to override the other inputs?
    Thank you, Geoff & Lisa

    Schuberth Response:
    Hello Geoff,
    Thank you for your inquiry. As for the blue tooth music pairing mode, this will not a an input function for the microphone. This will be a lower priority than the intercom but is generally used for older MP3 players. Unfortunately, I donít believe there is a way to set the intercom as the highest priority as on most system the mobile pairing will be the highest priority, and because most GPS these days have the ability to pair to a phone it will pair as a mobile phone to the SC1 (Comm System). I wish I had better news. As for the VOX intercom activation, the system will have to be in standby mode, as in the mobile phone function cannot be active at the time. I hope this helps to clarify things for you.. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you.

    Mit freundlichen GrŁŖen / Best Regards

    Brian Lee
    Technical Support Manager

    Caveat emptor!

  14. #14
    Registered User
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    Central PA
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    Disappointed

    It seems like lots of folks are having problems with the C4/SC1A setup. I spent well over $1,000 for something that does not work as advertised. I like the C4 helmet (my third Schuberth helmet) overall but the comm system is a huge disappointment.

    Poor sound quality and spontaneous shutdowns are just two of my issues with the SC1A. Removing and reinstalling the battery is the only way I can get the SC1A to restart. Don't try that while riding. I saw on Sena's website that they are blaming Schuberth for the problems. So getting this resolved is probably going to be a big hassle. I should have waited for more reviews before making this investment. I hope you learn from my mistake.
    2009 R1200RT (riding)
    2004 R1150RT (riding)
    2003 R1150RT

  15. #15
    Registered User
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    Middle Tennessee
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    A Huge $1200 Mistake

    Having many miles of great performance with a Sena SMH10, 20S and now 20S EVO, all on a C3 and later a C3 Pro, I was also lured into the idea of a Schuberth C4/Sena SC1 Advanced headset combination in hopes of moving to the next level of design and technologically superior comm system performance going forward. Boy was I ever wrong. But with all the problems most people are having, me included, the most remarkable thing about the whole conversation is that Sena is apparently running for cover and is not bothering to offer care and comfort to the situation much less a solution. In the support section of their website, they are completely silent and are refusing to address customer issues. Plus after months in the marketplace, the firmware is still sitting at version v1.0 with no reassurance from Sena there is a fix in the works.

    In a practical sense, I cannot imagine Schuberth tolerating this for much longer. My advice to anyone considering this helmet/comm system combination is to hold off until the comm system issues are either addressed or scrapped altogether and something else is substituted in its place. What a disaster.

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