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Thread: BMWMOA ON Magazine

  1. #46
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
    I swear to God, I've never seen (heard/read) such a bunch of whiners and complainers in all my life!
    Neither have I.



    But they're all spot on.

    The ON won't be improved by members It will be changed by management.

    Time for new management?!
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF Lead RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle/High Performance/Teen/Winter Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  2. #47
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    Attention Forum Administrator - New Thread May Be Required

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    Neither have I.



    But they're all spot on.

    The ON won't be improved by members It will be changed by management.

    Time for new management?!
    It seems that this discussion thread has strayed from complaining about Owners News to complaining about management.

    Perhaps a new thread should be started under the title of complaining about management or just complaining to not confuse the members making positive remarks about Owners News.

    Wayne Koppa
    Grayling, MI
    #71,449 Life

  3. #48
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    How about articles showing the valve adjustment and/or other basics on an S1000, or a valve job on a K16, swapping brake pads, swapping shocks... there are different types of Beemer engines, so this field is fairly deep.
    Excellent ideas.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by wkoppa View Post
    It seems that this discussion thread has strayed from complaining about Owners News to complaining about management.

    Perhaps a new thread should be started under the title of complaining about management or just complaining to not confuse the members making positive remarks about Owners News.

    Wayne Koppa
    Grayling, MI
    #71,449 Life
    "Management" is managed by the membership each year when we vote for Board members. The Board then elects the President and officers. They then hire an Executive Director and that person then hires a staff.

    So you get a vote. This Forum is a poor place to air problems with hired employees or contractors if you really want to make a difference. If you have issues with the Board vote. If you have issues with who they hire or what they do or fail to do then call, write, email, buttonhole, and do whatever else to contact each and every Board member you can find or track down. Or call, email, write, or buttonhole the Executive Director or Ted Moyer or the Editor or whoever is nearest and dearest to your concern. And don't (as 95% of the membership do) forget to vote.

    p.s. I served two years on the Board and a couple of years as President so do have some experience with unhappy and disgruntled members. The old-timers remember why.
    Last edited by PGlaves; 07-16-2017 at 01:43 PM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  5. #50
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkoppa View Post
    It seems that this discussion thread has strayed from complaining about Owners News to complaining about management.

    Perhaps a new thread should be started under the title of complaining about management or just complaining to not confuse the members making positive remarks about Owners News.

    Wayne Koppa
    Grayling, MI
    #71,449 Life
    So, the thread should be retitled: Positive Remarks Only About the Owners News?!

    That would be convenient, and censor that pesky riff-raff.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF Lead RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle/High Performance/Teen/Winter Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    So, the thread should be retitled: Positive Remarks Only About the Owners News?!

    That would be convenient, and censor that pesky riff-raff.
    No, we need separate threads for positive and negative. This way folks could read the views they agree with, without polluting their minds with counter opinions; thus no need to actually balance conflicting viewpoints.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  7. #52
    Registered User lmo1131's Avatar
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    Needs a Cooking Section w/ recipes. ... .
    "It is what you discover, after you know it all, that counts." _ John Wooden
    Lew Morris
    1973 R75/5 - original owner
    1963 Dnepr

  8. #53
    And cooking with a Rocket Stove.

  9. #54
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    I'm with Dennis...

    I'd really like to see more tech - and I do NOT mean "reviews" - since keeping the bike on the road is one of the prime factors that make it "fun". I thoroughly enjoy the articles by Matt, Paul, George, Jack, Dave, and Lee; much of the rest is just fluff that I can totally do without.

    How about articles showing the valve adjustment and/or other basics on an S1000, or a valve job on a K16, swapping brake pads, swapping shocks... there are different types of Beemer engines, so this field is fairly deep.

    A magazine needs to be more than a cheering section or a social experience. One of the reasons I dropped out of the Riders Association was that OTL was becoming more about photography than useful and relevant "meat".
    That's a great idea. What tech subject are you going to write about doing?

    That's the problem with the great ideas - implementing them. AFAIK the Owners News has no paid columnists. I know I never got paid for articles I wrote for it. I'm sure Paul G never got paid. Did Matt get paid? I think not. It's pitched as a volunteer organization, so the expectation is that anyone submitting an article is doing it as a volunteer, to share with their fellow BMW nuts. I've read articles by Matt that involved him disassembling some item on one of his bikes just to illustrate how to service or repair it. I've done the same. For no pay.

    The thing with technical articles is - they are quite demanding to write. I've written tour-ride-report articles (lots for our local newsletter) and they're pretty simple to write in a narrative manner (I went XYZ, I saw ABC, I met JKL, etc..) Well written technical articles are a lot more work, especially if you're trying to tell someone how to safely repair/service something. They require research, good photography, editing of the photography to direct the reader to specific things, and scrupulous proofreading. The author also has no idea of the skill level of the person who is going to be following the technical article, so it has to be based on the lowest common denominator. I've written/edited a lot of tech articles - and doing a good one isn't easy and is very time consuming. The hazards of making a mistake on a technical article are great - people's lives quite literally can depend on the accuracy of the article, and how easily they can follow the instructions given.

    Some of the articles I wrote, or edited can be found over in the Hex/Camhead technical subforum. That section was created when hexheads were fairly new, and people were still learning about them. There was a quite rigorous vetting of each article, with multiple tech editors looking each one over, making suggestions, changes, corrections. One big advantage to a web based technical article - it's easy to edit and correct mistakes/changes in specifications/etc. Anything printed is there basically forever. If a mistake is made - while a correction can be published - chances are people reading the original article won't find those until they've already "done the mistake." And mistakes are made, parts are changed/updated, specifications modified.

    We weren't being paid to do the work we did, and while the majority of people appreciate the sharing of knowledge, some people just can't help throwing slings and arrows at the authors. Some of us, and I suspect Paul G has the same feeling, after doing this for some time - decided we'd rather be riding.

    I think a question to ask the editor of the Owners News is - what sort of articles are submitted to the editor? If tech articles are - and aren't being published - ask why not (and I can think of lots of reasons why they might not be - including inaccurate articles, potentially libelous articles or articles that may advocate doing work that really should be left to a professional.) If tech articles aren't being published because none are submitted - then perhaps encouraging people to write them and asking for submissions, or even - PAY - people to write them may be an answer.

    Just complaining about the lack of these sort of articles without finding out why there is a lack of them really isn't productive.

    Awaiting the slings and arrows..
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders
    '12 R1200R - I love this bike!

  10. #55
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    IMHO, it's the two-wheel version of the similarly vacuous BMWCCA Roundel magazine. Glossy like a casino.
    Oh, not at all ...

    ... Roundel has a tech tips section second to none. A professional tech does the research and response and he has all kinds of dealer resources to draw from. BMW MOA ON has NEVER had this.

    In any event, if BMW motorcycles owners want a great magazine, there's BMW Motorcycle Magazine.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  11. #56
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Cainey View Post
    The Members write the Articles, if you want a change "You" write something!
    Baloney ... we pay dues and the magazine earns advertising revenue and the editor is a paid position. Club can afford some professionalism when it comes to ON.

    At my house, there are subscriptions to BMW CCA Roundel, MBCA Star, and PCA Panorama in addition to ON, and ON is by far the bottom of the heap. In addition, I have to pay extra for first class postage to assure the magazine I receive isn't torn to shreds, since MOA has never learned how to source plastic packaging as do all the others mentioned.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  12. #57
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Oh, not at all ...

    ... Roundel has a tech tips section second to none. A professional tech does the research and response and he has all kinds of dealer resources to draw from. BMW MOA ON has NEVER had this.

    In any event, if BMW motorcycles owners want a great magazine, there's BMW Motorcycle Magazine.
    Mike Millers column was of value, but with successive generations of models his advice seems to have evolve to.............."don't buy a 3-series after the E36 or any post E34 5-series" or similar. I understand where he's coming from and it points to the difficulty of having a club magazine provide technical info. It costs money and time to stay current with the vehicle technology before you even think about writing DYI articles on the topic. Of course, you can always get "free" advice, which is Deilenberger's comment above. But, when the club publishes "free" advice the club may share some responsibility for that advice. Someone posting a few pics and a description on the Forum or elsewhere is a different matter.

    While I'm not an advocate of the ON, I do appreciate the effort involved in creating it. The issue I see, is the club considers the ON to be a major member benefit in a world that has evolved away from the magazine format, in either print or electronic form.

    Peace
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  13. #58
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Oh, not at all ...

    ... Roundel has a tech tips section second to none. A professional tech does the research and response and he has all kinds of dealer resources to draw from. BMW MOA ON has NEVER had this.

    In any event, if BMW motorcycles owners want a great magazine, there's BMW Motorcycle Magazine.
    Actually - Mike Miller is not a professional tech, and he is a paid columnist. (I know some people.. and used to write for Roundel also..) Unfortunately - as the BMW car models have proliferated for one for ANY and EVERY lifestyle - the ability to give more than surface tech advice has diminished. Mikes advice before that - was "don't believe the service recommendations" (not actually bad advice, but saying it too often diminished the value.)

    Point being here - Mike Miller is PAID to do this job. Perhaps if the MOA wants to provide a parallel service for it's members, it would be necessary to (1) find someone competent (2) pay them (3) help them create the links with professional techs who are on the service department floor.. and know what's actually happening. It really won't happen with a volunteer simply because the work involved is too arduous. (And no - I don't want the job since BMW-Motorad is following the car side with a model for EVERY rider. I'd rather be out riding.)

    And the mention of liability is worth considering. If you look at the DIY articles in the hex/cam sub-forum you'll notice a very specific disclaimer at the beginning of every article. That was put together with the help of an attorney to try to provide some shield against frivolous liability/bodily-injury lawsuits by people who undertake jobs they are really incapable of doing. Unless the MOA can show evidence of liability insurance that covers the author of an article - I'd be very hesitant to do any more DIY articles here or in the Owners News.
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders
    '12 R1200R - I love this bike!

  14. #59
    BMW Motorcycle Owners rdalland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    since MOA has never learned how to source plastic packaging as do all the others mentioned.
    FYI - it is shipped in plastic, has been for quite a while.
    ride what you've got; enjoy the ride!

    Reid - Stone Ridge, NY - BMWMOA #69187 - Turbo Fluffy Motoclub - IBA #50182

  15. #60
    Registered User gfspencer's Avatar
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    I have been a member of BMWMOA for a L-O-N-G time. I have watched the magazine go up and down. You can take heart in that at one time it was much, much worse than it is now.

    I keep my membership because of roadside assistance. That particular service saved me about a year ago when I was out in the middle of nowhere with a flat tire.
    2015 R nineT

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