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Thread: Pinging...part deux

  1. #1
    Registered User krash's Avatar
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    Pinging...part deux

    I was having a little pinging on my 99' R1100R...had to replace my hall sensor as it had given up the ghost... decided to retard the timing slightly to see if it made a difference...sure enough, pinging stopped, but the bike had less snap and felt like it had a giant flat spot...so a few weeks ago, I decided to advance the timing slightly to get that snap/response back. I'm running 93 octane, an Axfied unit and larger R1200R injectors...f.y.i...
    With a little advanced timing the bike has come back to life...I noticed the pinging is back, but not as bad as previously. Only hear it in 4 or 5'th gear when I roll on the throttle hard at speed. Out of frustration, pulled the plugs(autolite 9223)and put a camera down the plug holes to take a look...carbon on both piston crowns... doesn't look bad, but both are covered.
    In looking at the plugs, right side was a bit ashy/white while the left side was clean and had a slight tan ring around the insulator...
    The gap was set to .031, upon doing some digging, I've read opening up the gap might help the situation with pinging...opened the gap to .035 and sure enough, pinging stopped...I've also read that opening the gap up to .040 can be beneficial to the way the bike runs...any thoughts or experience with larger gaps?
    Now I have to figure out how to remove the carbon...
    1999 R1100R
    "Big Blue"

  2. #2
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krash View Post
    I was having a little pinging on my 99' R1100R...had to replace my hall sensor as it had given up the ghost... decided to retard the timing slightly to see if it made a difference...sure enough, pinging stopped, but the bike had less snap and felt like it had a giant flat spot...so a few weeks ago, I decided to advance the timing slightly to get that snap/response back. I'm running 93 octane, an Axfied unit and larger R1200R injectors...f.y.i...
    With a little advanced timing the bike has come back to life...I noticed the pinging is back, but not as bad as previously. Only hear it in 4 or 5'th gear when I roll on the throttle hard at speed. Out of frustration, pulled the plugs(autolite 9223)and put a camera down the plug holes to take a look...carbon on both piston crowns... doesn't look bad, but both are covered.
    In looking at the plugs, right side was a bit ashy/white while the left side was clean and had a slight tan ring around the insulator...
    The gap was set to .031, upon doing some digging, I've read opening up the gap might help the situation with pinging...opened the gap to .035 and sure enough, pinging stopped...I've also read that opening the gap up to .040 can be beneficial to the way the bike runs...any thoughts or experience with larger gaps?
    Now I have to figure out how to remove the carbon...
    You can try a few Seafoam treatments but nothing is as effective as pulling the heads.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  3. #3
    Registered User krash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    You can try a few Seafoam treatments but nothing is as effective as pulling the heads.
    Yea, precisely what I don't want to do...seafoam has a more powerful foam that you can spray in the cylinder...I was thinking of warming the bike up, pulling the plugs and filling the cylinders with the foam stuff... otherwise, I may use a little water to steam clean them
    1999 R1100R
    "Big Blue"

  4. #4
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    A larger plug gap will be asking the coil to work harder, pulling more current - perhaps not a great idea.
    (Hope that's a typo with your plug #)

    Fill the cylinders with foam??? Sounds like a great way to have zero oil in there at start-up, contaminate what's in the crankcase, and possibly be asking for hydraulic lock...

  5. #5
    Registered User krash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    A larger plug gap will be asking the coil to work harder, pulling more current - perhaps not a great idea.
    (Hope that's a typo with your plug #)

    Fill the cylinders with foam??? Sounds like a great way to have zero oil in there at start-up, contaminate what's in the crankcase, and possibly be asking for hydraulic lock...
    My understanding is that spark plug gaps up to .040 are fine with R11 ignition system
    1999 R1100R
    "Big Blue"

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    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krash View Post
    Yea, precisely what I don't want to do...seafoam has a more powerful foam that you can spray in the cylinder...I was thinking of warming the bike up, pulling the plugs and filling the cylinders with the foam stuff... otherwise, I may use a little water to steam clean them
    Regular Seafoam Treatment:

    Warm the bike up to 4 bars
    Shut off
    Put 1/2 a dixie cup of Seafoam under the Vacuum port of each TB (6"hose attached)
    Start bike and hold at 3000 rpm until Seafoam is gone.
    Shut down immediately.
    Leave overnight to soak.
    Start bike and leave the area immediately.
    DON'T LOOK IN THE REARVIEW MIRRORS.
    Ride for 1/2 hr accelerating hard.
    Return the same way you came and pick up all the asphyxiated birds.

    Repeat a week later. (preferably during darkness)
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  7. #7
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    A larger plug gap will be asking the coil to work harder, pulling more current - perhaps not a great idea.
    (Hope that's a typo with your plug #)

    Fill the cylinders with foam??? Sounds like a great way to have zero oil in there at start-up, contaminate what's in the crankcase, and possibly be asking for hydraulic lock...
    The wider the gap the higher the resistance.
    Ohms law says less current.

    The coil voltage will increase slightly with a wider gap but will not have any detrimental effect on coil life.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  8. #8
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Higher resistance = less current is normally true...

    But once the spark has initially crossed the gap and ignited the compressed fuel, I believe it's a different story.

  9. #9
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    Higher resistance = less current is normally true...

    But once the spark has initially crossed the gap and ignited the compressed fuel, I believe it's a different story.
    + .010" is not going to make any appreciable difference
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  10. #10
    Registered User m_stock10506's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krash View Post
    I was thinking of warming the bike up, pulling the plugs and filling the cylinders with the foam stuff... otherwise, I may use a little water to steam clean them
    Personally, I would stay away from a water/steam treatment. Steaming the piston tops could result in a chip of carbon flying off the piston top and lodging in the exhaust valve opening. Just IMHO.
    Michael Stock, Trinity, NC
    R1100RT, R100, R60/6

  11. #11
    Registered User krash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Regular Seafoam Treatment:

    Warm the bike up to 4 bars
    Shut off
    Put 1/2 a dixie cup of Seafoam under the Vacuum port of each TB (6"hose attached)
    Start bike and hold at 3000 rpm until Seafoam is gone.
    Shut down immediately.
    Leave overnight to soak.
    Start bike and leave the area immediately.
    DON'T LOOK IN THE REARVIEW MIRRORS.
    Ride for 1/2 hr accelerating hard.
    Return the same way you came and pick up all the asphyxiated birds.

    Repeat a week later. (preferably during darkness)
    Should I change my oil afterward?
    1999 R1100R
    "Big Blue"

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by m_stock10506 View Post
    Personally, I would stay away from a water/steam treatment. Steaming the piston tops could result in a chip of carbon flying off the piston top and lodging in the exhaust valve opening. Just IMHO.
    Voni had that happen riding in heavy rain. I had to pull the heads to clean up the mess.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  13. #13
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krash View Post
    Should I change my oil afterward?
    Not unless it's close to due.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  14. #14
    Registered User krash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Not unless it's close to due.
    I thought using seafoam in that way contaminated the oil. Anything stronger than seafoam on the market? Will it be strong enough to get all that carbon off?
    1999 R1100R
    "Big Blue"

  15. #15
    Bluenoser
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    There are other treatments available in a spray can that are used in the auto world, but a bit awkward to use on a bike as the intake tubes have to be removed. No reason it couldn't be done but you'd need a helper to spray in one side while you sprayed in the other and kept the bike running. Using the vacuum port to suck the Sea Foam ( it is a solvent ) is a pretty simple way to go. Should work as good as anything.

    If you put Sea Foam in the oil, then it will have to be changed after a very short distance of riding. As long as you use a good quality oil and change it per BMW recommendations, there is really no need to add anything to the oil.

    On some bikes that had sprag clutch starters, old gold wings and some old K bikes, a short duration treatment of Sea Foam in the oil, usually freed the stuck starter clutch parts ( the little balls would get seized up and wouldn't engage ). If you have a pull type start lawnmower, the little dogs that engage when you pull on the rope is a sprag type clutch. Works exactly the same on the bikes and lawnmowers.
    1986 K100RT

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