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Thread: Are rider skills becoming obsolete?

  1. #61
    Excellent read. I am a form believer in study and proper skill development. After multiple courses I am still learning to improve.
    Seek Fun. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain--and most fools do" BF
    2009 K1300GT,
    2011 R1200GSA
    2014 Kawasaki DTracker; 2016 Honda NC700 DCT

  2. #62
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPGR90s View Post
    can't get a ticket for "operating a vehicle while impaired" if the vehicle is operating autonomously.

    Government officials probably haven't figured out the revenue loss with that one.
    A public drunkenness charge is still a possibility
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  3. #63
    Registered User selyab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbobvfr View Post
    my nickname is Jimbob, and I don't work for peanuts!
    I've been a MSF instructor for about 10 yrs, and a Total Control instructor for part of that time. I've taken the German Basic Rider Course, and other safety training, including training at the Sachsenring in 'old. east germany, Assen, Hockenheim, as well as Keith Code's Superbike school at Laguna Seca.

    While putting some miles on my newly renovated 01 Aprilia RSVR, I'm constantly amazed at how capable this motorcycle is. Thru regular training, advanced training, track training, and peer counselling I have honed my skills so that I can actively push this bike up towards its limits.

    Does this track-laser combined with my years of training and teaching make me a safer rider?

    Doesn't matter. Cars still pull out in front of me(the bike is bright yellow, btw) I see drivers in front of me on their dumbphones oblivious to the green light waiting for them to look up, and just, go...

    But here's the rub. All that training, and the smallest % of rider accident(only 3% are struck from the rear) almost killed me a few years ago.
    one shattered vertebra, fusion surgery, and a life of hellish pain still hasn't stopped me from riding, teaching, racing, and just generally being an idiot on occasion.

    Some can ride, some can't, and education will help the group in the middle.
    I was king for a day, it would be mandatory training before licensing with regular evaluation during the life of the rider.

    I know this goes against those American rights and freedoms, but I've also stood beside hospital beds from those that didn't pass the Road eval..

    Let's be safe out there..
    I could not agree more.

    Lately, I created a personalized search into my Google News preferences for "Motorcycle Accident" which feeds me new articles with this subject. I know it sounds morbid. It turns out that almost all the articles are fatalities since I guess it is not as newsworthy otherwise. At some point I might calculate the numbers but for now my impression is this. Maybe 30 percent of the deaths are related to single rider accidents leaving the highway for some reason. Lot's are in their early 20's, late at night and maybe excessive speed mentioned. You never know the actual reasons but it smells like inexperience, alcohol/drugs, and questionable risk taking but sometimes it is just hitting a deer. Basically a result of risk taking in how the motorcycle is operated. The much higher number, maybe 60 to 70 percent, by my count, are killed by drivers making left turns in front of them. We are all aware of this scenario but when I open my browser everyday and I see three or more new motorcycle deaths, it is quite sobering. The profiles of the riders are many times riders in their 50's, with years of riding experience, sometimes they are even off duty motorcycle police. Right now I feel this is the most important thing I need to know to survive, that the car coming the other way with the blinker on is trying to kill me.

    If they can install technology that would alert drivers to the presence of motorcycles, especially in the left turn scenario, that would be a massive safety achievement.
    Current : '76 R90/6, '11 R12GSA, '15 RTW, '16 S1R.
    Gone: '07 K1200GT, '03 R1150RT, '85 K100RT.

  4. #64
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
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    After a friend (also an MOA member) pointed out to me that doing what's called the "SMIDSY" maneuver as you're approaching a vehicle, makes you more visible and likely to be noticed, I started doing it. The maneuver involves gentle changes of direction as you ride toward a potential left-turner or a person entering your probable path from a street, driveway, etc. on the RH side. This has the effect of disconnecting you from the background so that you appear to be a moving object. The sweep of the headlight is an essential part of this.

    Here's a link to a YouTube video explaining the maneuver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQBubilSXU
    John Gamel
    2015 Ebony Metallic R1200RT
    BMW CCA 2006 - Present; BMW MOA 2009-Present
    Walt Kelly: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by selyab View Post
    I could not agree more.

    Right now I feel this is the most important thing I need to know to survive, that the car coming the other way with the blinker on is trying to kill me.
    Pfffft. Those guys are being nice, and responsible, by announcing their intent to kill you. The ones that fully intend to left-turn-murder you without signaling first are the real nasty bastiges.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by selyab View Post
    . If they can install technology that would alert drivers to the presence of motorcycles, especially in the left turn scenario, that would be a massive safety achievement.
    How about tagging all larger wildlife w/ GPS transmitters so they would show up in your GPS Navigator?! That would be way cool!

    I can all but avoid busy traffic if I'm careful, and I KNOW they are out to get me so expect it, but that unpredicted bounding deer is a reality that we mainly have to pray doesn't happen. I watched my older brother hit a large deer in Wyoming north of Cody last year and fortunately lived to ride again w/ no serious injury. His FJR was totaled however.

    There is a whole lot you can do to mitigate crash risk, and a little you can do to minimize injury secondary to crash, but any way you slice it it's risky business!

  7. #67
    Hereís just one of several articles on the web where technology is being used to put blind drivers behind the wheel.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21720318

    As the OP, my point was that technology is gradually replacing the need for driver/rider skills, ability, and awareness. Since it also makes for a safer transportation experience for all it must be seen as a good thing, but the engineering goal is that no skill or ability whatsoever will be required to safely use the vehicles of the future (ie; totally autonomous vehicles).

    For example, since cars have had (tipover) stability control for several years now, can stability control for our bikes really be far behind? Maybe the next version of enduro pro software will include steering/brake/throttle input assist and make it harder to crash on those rocky slopes. One can only hope ...

    Technology is also going to help keep older riders in the saddle. 20 years from now, even if I canít see, hear, or hold a bike up I might still be able to ride a 2037 GSA if it is available with sight and balance assist. One can only hope ...

  8. #68
    Honda self-balancing motorcycle demo:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3qGX3rn3s0I

    Maybe sooner than 2037!

    Can vision assist be far behind?

  9. #69
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    Yes, the day of driverless cars, motorcycles, and trucks may be coming. When it arrives fully that may be a very good thing. (Well, maybe not for people who like to ride motorcycles.) But there is going to be a long transition period where the old-fashioned vehicles are still on the road. How do you know if that vehicle that may turn left across your lane is "smart" or not, especially if your vehicle isn't "smart?"

    I could be wrong, but I predict more crashes when the two types mix. We know how Americans feel about giving up any type of firearms, but I submit there are a LOT more who would feel very strongly about giving up their beloved gas powered cars and motorcycles. Hey, we are proud of our driving/riding skills - however misplaced.

    The years ahead will be indeed interesting times.
    Doug
    1992 K100RS

  10. #70
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention how driverless cars detect potholes or rocks on the road. Those of us who still taking driving/riding as a serious activity still do tend to dodge them on our deteriorating roads. Is that also built into the "smart" vehicles?
    Doug
    1992 K100RS

  11. #71
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by BCKRider View Post
    Yes, the day of driverless cars, motorcycles, and trucks may be coming. When it arrives fully that may be a very good thing. (Well, maybe not for people who like to ride motorcycles.) But there is going to be a long transition period where the old-fashioned vehicles are still on the road. How do you know if that vehicle that may turn left across your lane is "smart" or not, especially if your vehicle isn't "smart?"

    I could be wrong, but I predict more crashes when the two types mix. We know how Americans feel about giving up any type of firearms, but I submit there are a LOT more who would feel very strongly about giving up their beloved gas powered cars and motorcycles. Hey, we are proud of our driving/riding skills - however misplaced.

    The years ahead will be indeed interesting times.
    Spot on.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF Lead RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle/High Performance/Teen/Winter/ATV Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Track

  12. #72
    Airmarshal-IL James.A's Avatar
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    Are rider skills becoming obsolete?
    the short answer is NO.
    1973 R75/5

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