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Thread: ABS Brakes

  1. #16
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    About this time of year, as we begin instructing 'experienced riders,' we get what we like to call the "Livin' on Luck' guys - you know - "I've been braking this way for 30 years and never had an accident." We make him stand over next to the "My Uncle Buck smoked a pack of cigs every day and lived to be 94" guy, as they share a couple of Camels. Their logic sort of syncs.
    And there was the guy at an ABATE of New York meeting who confidently proclaimed in a seminar in a large room that counter-steering could not possibly work...and there was no one in the room who felt confident (besides myself) to point out the error of his ways. He was definitely depending far too much on luck.

    Harry
    My fleet: 2015 R1200GS, 2017 Toyota Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid)

  2. #17
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    And there was the guy at an ABATE of New York meeting who confidently proclaimed in a seminar in a large room that counter-steering could not possibly work...and there was no one in the room who felt confident (besides myself) to point out the error of his ways. He was definitely depending far too much on luck.

    Harry
    I hear ya, Harry.

    Early Spring, we get the influx of novices here at Road America, eager to learn the correct way to ride.

    But by late May, early June, it's the "Livin' on Luck" crowd - the 'experienced' riders.

    Counter-steering is real, but as you pointed out, often a tough sell. Just like there's not 5 different ways to properly brake a street-ridden motorcycle, 5 different ways to carry a loaded rifle, 5 different ways to safely add acid to a battery, etc. Humans still equate experience with knowledge. Sometimes, 20 years of riding turns out to be nothing more than 20 years of bad habits. Often, a tough sell to improve.

    Novice students are usually the most fun - clean slates and they challenge us to validate our advice - something a good instructor welcomes.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF Lead RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle/High Performance/Teen/Winter/ATV Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Track

  3. #18
    Registered Schmoozer irish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwl1955 View Post
    I always used both brakes until I bought my 2013RT and now my 2016RT because both models have linked brakes. My 2000RT did not. On the 2013 it was quite noticeable when I applied the rear brake that it was linked because the brake pedal would pulse but much more subtle on the 2016. I actually had to read the owners manual to make sure the 2016 had linked brakes. In a panic stop I don't know how much effect it would have applying the rear manually.
    The pulsing you feel when applying the rear brake only is probably the ABS kicking in. dmilan is correct about the fully linked brakes on the 02 vs the partially linked brakes starting a few years later. IMHO the partially linked is a big improvement, but you MUST apply the front brake lever to get good braking performance.
    14 R1200GS, 02 R1150RT

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    And there was the guy at an ABATE of New York meeting who confidently proclaimed in a seminar in a large room that counter-steering could not possibly work...and there was no one in the room who felt confident (besides myself) to point out the error of his ways. He was definitely depending far too much on luck.

    Harry
    This called for an intervention.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    And there was the guy at an ABATE of New York meeting who confidently proclaimed in a seminar in a large room that counter-steering could not possibly work...and there was no one in the room who felt confident (besides myself) to point out the error of his ways. He was definitely depending far too much on luck.

    Harry
    Well, it probably didn't work very well on his TRIKE.

    I would put that opinion right up there with the merits of his:

    a$$less chaps
    ape hanger bars
    bar end tassles
    doo rag
    pipes saving lives
    chrome oil filter
    and sissy bar
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  6. #21
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    And there was the guy at an ABATE of New York meeting who confidently proclaimed in a seminar in a large room that counter-steering could not possibly work...and there was no one in the room who felt confident (besides myself) to point out the error of his ways. He was definitely depending far too much on luck.

    Harry
    The God given right to be stupid is precious to many in America.
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  7. #22
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    The God given right to be stupid is precious to many in America.
    Amen.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF Lead RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle/High Performance/Teen/Winter/ATV Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Track

  8. #23
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    Couldn't tell ya how many students still ask "will you teach us how to lay it down to avoid a crash?"
    My reply usually sounds something like "no, we're not going to teach you how to have "an on purpose" instead of "an accident." We'll teach you how to keep your bike upright, and use your brakes effectively."
    The lightbulbs usually come on when I ask "what do you think stops better- slowing tires, or sliding on metal?"
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  9. #24

    Rear brake...

    The fellow who taught me this is an OHP....

    Practice to apply an initial amount of pressure to the rear brake, then to squeeze the front brake without trying to change the pressure on the rear brake.

    As the bike "dives" and weight switches to the front wheel, I don't try to change the pressure on the rear brake, but I feel it increase "by itself".

    Infrequently, in hard braking situations, the ABS might engage and the rear brake start pulsing. I do nothing else than squeezing the front brake more or less as I need to slow down/stop. This lasts only a very short time, so I don't think I would have time to correct it even if I wanted to. Better let the ABS do its job.

    In other words, to brake, first apply an initial amount of pressure on the rear brake and keep it steady while squeezing the front brake as needed.

    This is the way I now brake EVERY TIME.

  10. #25
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastman View Post
    Off-road with my GSA is a different animal as I disable traction control and ABS so I can skid the back tire with just rear brake.
    Just curious: couldn't you just choose "enduro" mode to do that?
    My fleet: 2015 R1200GS, 2017 Toyota Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid)

  11. #26
    Fastman Fastman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    Just curious: couldn't you just choose "enduro" mode to do that?
    Thatís exactly how I do it ... Enduro Pro


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Fastman
    '86 R65, '96 R1100RS, '04 K1200RS, '13 K1300S 30th Anniversary - SOLD
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    The most notable thing you can leave for posterity is your name...signed Anonymous

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