-
Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password. If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?
-
Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.
The Election forum is here: Election Forum
Why no smallish touring bikes?
- Thread starter poodad
- Start date
lkraus
New member
This is part of the issue I wanted to point out earlier - reducing engine size while keeping the bells and whistles does not appreciably reduce the weight or cost of the bike.
It's the bells and whistles that cause the higher weights.
Going back a ways to compare basic bikes:
R50/5 452lb 32hp
R60/5 463lb 40hp
R75/5 463lb 50hp
Essentially the same bike, with different displacements. Price differences of about 10-15% between models, not because of different features or material requirements, but just because higher power justified a premium price.
Or compare the specs for a current model R1200R to an R1200RT to see what the bells and whistles cost in terms of weight, about a hundred pounds, I think.
The only way I know of to get a lightweight bike for touring is to start with a lightweight bike, add a plexi fairing and some soft luggage.
I'm not so sure. Look at the Suzuki SV650. Water cooled with ABS, wet weight is 434lbs. How much would more weight would a larger fairing, bigger windshield and cruise add?
Or this, certainly lots of luggage room, easy to push around https://www.imz-ural.com/patrol/
slowandfast
slow&fast
You guys are overthinking this...
1976 r60/6But you still have your Bonneville SE. Sweet.
Yes, I do. I use it for commuting, running light errands (no large baggage), and light touring. I've had a soft spot for Triumphs since I bought my first Bonneville back in '69. I've pretty much had a Brit Bike in the garage ever since. I added BMW to the mix back in 2004 or '05 (first Beemer was a'99 F650GS). Sold it and bought a Suzuki V-Strom 650. Added a new '10 F800ST to the collection in '10 when I downsized from a Triumph Trophy 1200. Traded the F800ST (and the Suzuki) for a new '15 R1200RT. Back in '01 I added a Triumph Legend 900TT to the garage. Sold in '12 and bought the Bonneville SE as a replacement.
2 bikes in the garage are enough for me!
jconway607
JohnWC
For what it's worth, I too vote with the scooter crowd. They are, in my opinion, completely undervalued here in the U. S, the two problems being 1) gas too cheap, and 2) wimp image. But for practicality, they can't be beat. Even 250 models will easily cruise at 70mph, and do it smoothly and quietly. The small tires are a welcome relief in cost. Gas mileage is usually very good. The seats, and this time both the passenger and driver, are far better than just about all motorcycles. Great weather protection. Simple transmissions with CVT belt drives. The built in storage is also a nice bonus.
But the absolute best part of riding them comes down to two items: That great step through frame that does away with swinging a leg over a bike like you are training for the high hurdles every time you either get on or off the thing. And the ever present enjoyment of never having to work a clutch and shift gears. Just twist the throttle, and off you go. Over and over again. They are the perfect commuter machine, as most people in Europe have known for many decades.
Yes, people will sneer at you. Harleys won't wave back. But for most people, and especially women, they make a lot of sense.
And really, if you are already riding a BMW, you don't care what people think.
But the absolute best part of riding them comes down to two items: That great step through frame that does away with swinging a leg over a bike like you are training for the high hurdles every time you either get on or off the thing. And the ever present enjoyment of never having to work a clutch and shift gears. Just twist the throttle, and off you go. Over and over again. They are the perfect commuter machine, as most people in Europe have known for many decades.
Yes, people will sneer at you. Harleys won't wave back. But for most people, and especially women, they make a lot of sense.
And really, if you are already riding a BMW, you don't care what people think.
Ditto!!!
"I care not what others think of what I do, but I care very much about what I think of what I do! That is character!" Theodore Roosevelt
bwalker33467
New member
I have done cross country trips back in the day on the following: 1971 Honda CB450; 1973 Honda CB500 Four; 1981 Yamaha XS1100. Yes, the smaller bikes are absolutely capable. In all likelihood a woman who leans to the small side would be happy with something like an F800GT. Now after having had cross country experiences on a variety of Gold Wings, a K1300GT, an R1200GS and my latest ride a 2017 R1200RTW it's hard to imagine ever being happy again on a smaller bike. But there is something called reality. If an F800GT is quite possibly one of the few choices for a small woman you need to do what you need to do. Being 6' 1" tall I simply fit better on a larger framed motorcycle. At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with either a male or female riding one of these bikes.
Marketplace reality is something else however. I've been in the motorcycle business for 35 years. Almost a hard and fast rule is the fact these smaller machines just don't sell. Although there are more women entering the motorcycle market the numbers are still very small. The motorcycle market is still struggling from the effects of the crash in the economy and its been a decade already. Many, many dealers are still struggling although those involved with the Euro market seem to be doing better.
Another unfortunate reality is the fact American's couldn't care less about motorcycles. While the automotive world has been busy setting records in unit sales the motorcycle world continues to struggle. The number of women willing to step up to the plate and purchase a motorcycle consists of numbers so small it's almost meaningless. The O.E.M.'s have repeatedly gone after these markets for years and years now and the results have been poor enough that almost all mid-size motorcycles going after a segment within the motorcycle market invariably fail. The F800 series has been around a few years now and perhaps the fact it has survived is due to the fact BMW is already a niche player and given the quality of the 800 model series overall and being a niche player to begin with BMW seems to have been able to pull the series off successfully.
Women tend to use more common sense then us guys when it comes to engine size and horsepower. But the quantity of women interested in motorcycles is so small I imagine the O.E.M.'s just don't see a real possibility of the segment producing any real money given the level of risk.
Had one in "73.
flymymbz
Dee G
I'm 5'5", 32" inseam. Pretty much the 'average' female. I have no problems with the seat height on my NT. My spouse is 5'4" with a 27" inseam. He has no problems with his NT either. There are a couple of aftermarket seats available for it, maybe an inch or so lower than stock.
The NT feels a bit top heavy for me, but its only an issue during very slow speed turns.
I don't have the larger pannier lids as Daboo suggested. Packing for a long trip does take a bit of planning. But I manage fine with an Ortlieb tailbag added on.
The bike handles just fine on the highway. Keeping up with 85 mph traffic on I-5 in California was no problem. And it even handles dirt/gravel. Didn't know that the 'other' Lolo Pass ( behind Mt Hood in Oregon) had several miles of gravel north of the summit.
My only wish for the NT is that it needs a 6th speed.
I had a CB160 in high school too. Then in my senior year bought a new '72 Yamaha R5 350. WHAT IS A BLACK BOMBER?
lkraus
New member
temesvar
New member
In the 70's, when I got my license, a 250 cc bike was considered a "big" bike.
A side car was no problems, especially if it was a 4stroke engine. In my town were
only two R60, but none was for sale. (couldn't afford one anyways!!) But would
have loved to be able to have a R26!They where such magnificent machines( in my eyes!!),
and the sound was mesmerizing!! I could count each stroke, as those days they didn't have
to be reved up to high rpm. Am sure, if they were available, there would be a market for a
250cc BMW.
A side car was no problems, especially if it was a 4stroke engine. In my town were
only two R60, but none was for sale. (couldn't afford one anyways!!) But would
have loved to be able to have a R26!They where such magnificent machines( in my eyes!!),
and the sound was mesmerizing!! I could count each stroke, as those days they didn't have
to be reved up to high rpm. Am sure, if they were available, there would be a market for a
250cc BMW.
female rider finding solutions
My wife is talking about getting her own bike and asking me what models she should be looking at. I've done some searching, and I've come to an interesting conclusion: the 1200RT is about the smallest bike out there that is suitable for long distance touring. Yes, I know you can tour on anything, but I'm talking something comfortable - plenty of fairing, windshield, and luggage.
I find it odd that considering the aging population and number of women who are climbing off the back seat and onto their own bikes, there isn't someone making a shorter, sub 500lb touring bike. I'd think there'd be a good sized market for a smaller bike that a woman or older man could feel comfortable on.
Have I missed any models of bikes? Is there something out there under 500lbs and suitable for touring?[/QUOTE
I have been riding for a few decades plusI'm a 5'5" woman rider who has struggled to find suitable bikes because of height and bike weight challenges. I've ridden all over North America... on Viragos 1983-500, 1994-750, 1996-1100 cc, Vstar 2004-1100, Goldwing 2006 (didn't last long), Victory Vision 2009 1800 cc, BMW 20013 F650GS and now on an BMW 2015 R1200RT. So believe me when I say that I've made many adjustments to every bike except the Victory which fit me perfectly, just had major mechanical and electrical problems. They are not in production now and it was way to big a bike for a woman who is just starting.
Well meaning people are making all kinds of suggestions, some of the great and some not so much. I suggest that your wife, take the Rider Training (safety) course where they provide small bikes, to determine if it's something she wants to and can do. Then after sitting on various types of bikes will have a better idea of what feels comfortable for arm reach, seat height and bike weight. Warning, some bikes have a rake that makes the bike handle heavy in the hands ( some Suzuki & Honda cruisers) That can make for more opportunity to drop the bike in slow speed turning.
I know this is a BMW forum and if you're looking for a BMW the 800GT and 800R has been suggested by others. My challenge with them was the riding position. The lean forward on my hands was too much and the seat was still too high. The F700GS comes lowered and with bags makes a really nice package. The BMW F650GS was not comfortable for long hauls. I rode to & from Cape Breton to Niagara Falls and couldn't get off the bike quick enough. Great bike for all kinds of terrain but not on highways for a length of time. I even had a better seat, bigger screen, Verhoylen bar backs etc... sold it as soon as I came back.
The 2015 RT that I'm on has been lowered using Ted Porter's TracTive shocks and springs. After having another company here in Ontario totally mess up my suspension, Ted Porter (BeemerShop) and my dealer totally fixed the problem. I now have a lowered bike that works well with all the ESA settings. I love the bike. However, you are correct it is a big bike for someone starting off. So if the F7000 or 800 series suits your wife, just get the factory lowered version and low seat, depending on her inseam.
There are other lower bikes but not necessarily lighter out there that work well. Do take at the Kawasaki 650 cruiser for instance. I have a friend who is just starting to ride and she loves it. She's added all the touring bags etc to it and is ready to go.
I hope this helps in some way.
Good luck!
Its pretty hard to ignore any of the smaller displacement cruisers ( 650-750) as a ride for a new rider. They are low to the ground and build confidence in a new rider. Yes they are not as agile at low speeds as non cruiser bikes are, but they are stable at speed. If you plan on slabbing it you'll like need a larger displacement engine, but otherwise they are fine. Any of the non cruiser bikes, get top heavy and couple that with a short inseam and light weight rider, low speed riding gets really interesting.
The majority of women I see riding are on a cruiser of some description.
Being a former motorcycle instructor, I fully support the taking of any of the learner rider courses before you buy a bike. You'd be surprised by the number of partners who have bought the bike they think their partner wants, rather than let her/him decide. Then what happens is the new rider gets scared first time out and the bike sits. Treat your partner as an equal and support her bike buying decisions.
Remember what worked when you rode together on the same bike, if the passenger is happy the rider is happy.
The majority of women I see riding are on a cruiser of some description.
Being a former motorcycle instructor, I fully support the taking of any of the learner rider courses before you buy a bike. You'd be surprised by the number of partners who have bought the bike they think their partner wants, rather than let her/him decide. Then what happens is the new rider gets scared first time out and the bike sits. Treat your partner as an equal and support her bike buying decisions.
Remember what worked when you rode together on the same bike, if the passenger is happy the rider is happy.
WELL said!
My wife is talking about getting her own bike and asking me what models she should be looking at. I've done some searching, and I've come to an interesting conclusion: the 1200RT is about the smallest bike out there that is suitable for long distance touring. Yes, I know you can tour on anything, but I'm talking something comfortable - plenty of fairing, windshield, and luggage.
I find it odd that considering the aging population and number of women who are climbing off the back seat and onto their own bikes, there isn't someone making a shorter, sub 500lb touring bike. I'd think there'd be a good sized market for a smaller bike that a woman or older man could feel comfortable on.
Have I missed any models of bikes? Is there something out there under 500lbs and suitable for touring?[/QUOTE
I have been riding for a few decades plus
Well meaning people are making all kinds of suggestions, some of the great and some not so much. I suggest that your wife, take the Rider Training (safety) course where they provide small bikes, to determine if it's something she wants to and can do. Then after sitting on various types of bikes will have a better idea of what feels comfortable for arm reach, seat height and bike weight. Warning, some bikes have a rake that makes the bike handle heavy in the hands ( some Suzuki & Honda cruisers) That can make for more opportunity to drop the bike in slow speed turning.
I know this is a BMW forum and if you're looking for a BMW the 800GT and 800R has been suggested by others. My challenge with them was the riding position. The lean forward on my hands was too much and the seat was still too high. The F700GS comes lowered and with bags makes a really nice package. The BMW F650GS was not comfortable for long hauls. I rode to & from Cape Breton to Niagara Falls and couldn't get off the bike quick enough. Great bike for all kinds of terrain but not on highways for a length of time. I even had a better seat, bigger screen, Verhoylen bar backs etc... sold it as soon as I came back.
The 2015 RT that I'm on has been lowered using Ted Porter's TracTive shocks and springs. After having another company here in Ontario totally mess up my suspension, Ted Porter (BeemerShop) and my dealer totally fixed the problem. I now have a lowered bike that works well with all the ESA settings. I love the bike. However, you are correct it is a big bike for someone starting off. So if the F7000 or 800 series suits your wife, just get the factory lowered version and low seat, depending on her inseam.
There are other lower bikes but not necessarily lighter out there that work well. Do take at the Kawasaki 650 cruiser for instance. I have a friend who is just starting to ride and she loves it. She's added all the touring bags etc to it and is ready to go.
I hope this helps in some way.
Good luck!
Good words of wisdom. I believe, and I know others may disagree, that the best bike for comfort and control has standard seating position, not a sport nor cruiser. Therefore I would highly recommend a bmw F700GS with lowered suspension. And she really needs to choose her own ride. Why not get her comfortable on a small dual sport first.
