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Why no smallish touring bikes?

P

poodad

New member
My wife is talking about getting her own bike and asking me what models she should be looking at. I've done some searching, and I've come to an interesting conclusion: the 1200RT is about the smallest bike out there that is suitable for long distance touring. Yes, I know you can tour on anything, but I'm talking something comfortable - plenty of fairing, windshield, and luggage.

I find it odd that considering the aging population and number of women who are climbing off the back seat and onto their own bikes, there isn't someone making a shorter, sub 500lb touring bike. I'd think there'd be a good sized market for a smaller bike that a woman or older man could feel comfortable on.

Have I missed any models of bikes? Is there something out there under 500lbs and suitable for touring?
 
I crossed from atlanta to kali and vancouver 3 times roundtrip on a 650GS with all 3 bags loaded and carrying a spare tire on one of the trips. I think the new 700Gs would be fine.
 
martyhill said:
I crossed from atlanta to kali and vancouver 3 times roundtrip on a 650GS with all 3 bags loaded and carrying a spare tire on one of the trips. I think the new 700Gs would be fine.
Click to expand...

Agreed, add a new and larger windscreen if required.
Or go for this with fairing and windscreen option try this
 
The stock, small-tourer concept has been tried and apparently the market is not large enough for the manufacturers. Think of the NT700, the old SilverWing, even BMW's R50/R60/R75 series. By the time you add fairing, luggage, and adequate power, costs and weight are nearly the same as a full fledged tourer, and people are not willing to buy the "little" bike when a larger one costs just a little more.

I looked at the NT700 before I bought my RT and felt the luggage was too small to be useful, and I was not convinced the power was adequate for today's interstate speeds. I think the F800GT might be your best bet, with a Madstad shield and possibly a low seat.
 
martyhill said:
I crossed from atlanta to kali and vancouver 3 times roundtrip on a 650GS with all 3 bags loaded and carrying a spare tire on one of the trips. I think the new 700Gs would be fine.
Click to expand...

My cat crawled into an old wood cookstove in the garage and had kittens. That didn't make the kittens biscuits.
 
lkraus said:
The stock, small-tourer concept has been tried and apparently the market is not large enough for the manufacturers. Think of the NT700, the old SilverWing, even BMW's R50/R60/R75 series. By the time you add fairing, luggage, and adequate power, costs and weight are nearly the same as a full fledged tourer, and people are not willing to buy the "little" bike when a larger one costs just a little more.
Click to expand...

That was undoubtedly true back in those days. Women didn't ride their own bikes, and baby boomers were comfy on big Harleys and Goldwings. But now, it is more common to see women on their own bike instead of behind a guy, and baby boomers are getting too old for big bikes. It seems to me that the demographic of motorcycle riders has changed enough to make the case for a small tourer.

But, on the other hand, maybe the total market for touring bikes is shrinking. It appears that crotch rockets and cruisers are where it's at now. I've noticed that even Honda has created a cruiser version of their venerable Goldwing. Maybe old guys want trikes and the ladies want cruisers.
 
lkraus said:
The stock, small-tourer concept has been tried and apparently the market is not large enough for the manufacturers. Think of the NT700, the old SilverWing, even BMW's R50/R60/R75 series. By the time you add fairing, luggage, and adequate power, costs and weight are nearly the same as a full fledged tourer, and people are not willing to buy the "little" bike when a larger one costs just a little more.

I looked at the NT700 before I bought my RT and felt the luggage was too small to be useful, and I was not convinced the power was adequate for today's interstate speeds. I think the F800GT might be your best bet, with a Madstad shield and possibly a low seat.
Click to expand...

poodad said:
I'm reiterating what I said in my original post: While you certainly CAN tour on any bike, that doesn't make that bike a touring bike.
Click to expand...

As someone who has owned both a NT700V and currently owns a F800GT, I wish I had talked to you years before to set me straight so I could've bought an RT instead and not been mislead into buying what I did buy. ;)

I found the NT700V to be superb as a touring machine. I'll agree that the standard OEM cases are small. All it takes though, is to buy the larger lids Honda sells and you now have a lot of built-in storage...about double what the smaller lids provide. One of the nice things about the way Honda did it, was they blended the panniers into the body so they don't stick out like tacked on after thoughts. The fairing is large enough to get behind it in the rain and stay pretty dry. Of course, no fairing will keep you dry when you stop. :) Honda also offers a lower fairing which keeps the feet out of the cold and wet. I used mine for 30,000 miles of commuting and trips, and it was flawless. FWIW, several members of the NT-Owners forum have exceeded 100,000 miles with theirs with nothing but wear and tear items. One guy has over 160,000 miles. And the drive shaft and final drives are holding up. The only failure was caused by the Honda dealership forgetting to lube the rear splines. Not a design fault, but a servicing fault. I found the air management to be superb also. No turbulence. And the adjustable windshield works great to either keep you out of the wind, or let you get a blast of refreshing air when it is hot outside. As for power, its not a sport bike, but I had no problems passing cars at all. More than once, I marveled at how the bike just eats away the miles. The only reason it didn't sell, was Honda didn't promote it here. It languished in the back corner of the dealerships. FWIW, I had a group of three BMW riders on the way to Mt. St. Helens ask me what model of BMW it was.

I find it interesting, the different take on the F800GT between real life and this forum. On this forum, the F800GT is under-powered and totally not suitable for real touring. Like if it was recognized as a real touring bike, then RT owners might feel challenged in some way. On the other hand, when I went to the Coeur d'Alene Getaway last fall, I was surprised at how many RT owners commented on how nice the F800GT was, like one would be in their near future. I get the feeling on this forum that unless it's a boxer, it's not a real BMW. I've done many a day of 10-12 hours of riding and arrived at the end of the day feeling fresh still. Mine has a Madstad windshield, and the result is the smoothest airflow over me I've ever experienced. I'm constantly amazed at how little I feel turbulence and wind gusts on the road, even though the bike is so light. BMW did something right in the design of this bike. :) The handlebar risers and lowered footpegs give a nice and relaxed ergonomic seating arrangement. And the two 37 liter top-opening panniers work great for stuffing full of things for a trip. With the top box I have, I can carry 119 liters of gear. That'll work nicely for the several week trips I have planned this summer already. And as for power...there's a YouTube video showing someone doing about 140 mph on one (not me).

What more do you need for a "real" touring motorcycle except the ability to get you there, feeling like you aren't beat up? Both of those bikes will do that handily.

BTW, the cost for my F800GT wasn't even close to an RT at @$9000.

Chris
 
We all love HP, bigger is better and to some real extent it is. It is also marketing hype too. Manufacture like to sell bigger more expensive bikes.

Yes there is some comprise in suspension quality, braking prowess, and of course HP.

There are several bikes available today...most already mentioned. the Lowered F700GS is excellent. and at 70 hp has more HP than most Harleys. Add a good windshield (aeroflow) and good bags (Jessie's) and your are ready to go. I can vouch for this as I took an earlier version of this to Alaska ( with a friend who had R1200GSA) and kept up fine. I kept the bike for over 50k miles.

Less expensive, is the Suzuki SV650 road bike or the V-Strom 650 which can be lower with a set of inexpensive "dog bones" I believe the Kawa Versis is also worth a look.

All of these are good bikes

I do not know of any current 500 cc models...but I have not been paying attention.

FWIW I broke in to touring years ago on a CX500 with about 45 hp and it worked fine. My pre "Aventure" had me doing Labrador and remote northern Quebec campaign out on a Kawa KLR (the stock seat was horrible on 400 mile days).

Today's 650s are so much better!

Touring long distance on bike like these are fine
 
Is the K75RT considered a smallish touring bike? I had my 1990 out yesterday for a 340 mile day ride and I've got to say that is one sweet low maintenance comfortable machine, inexpensive too. Fun to ride, good fairing protection and adequate baggage room. I really like mine!
 
nickrides said:
Is the K75RT considered a smallish touring bike? I had my 1990 out yesterday for a 340 mile day ride and I've got to say that is one sweet low maintenance comfortable machine, inexpensive too. Fun to ride, good fairing protection and adequate baggage room. I really like mine!
Click to expand...

I like mine too. And my K75 standard. And Voni's K75S. But the newest one you could buy is now 22 years old. Good low mileage units can be found but they still have 22 to 30 year old rubber bits and such. The closest thing BMW makes is the Fxxx line. Until the 310s arrive in the fall.
 
daboo said:
As someone who has owned both a NT700V and currently owns a F800GT, I wish I had talked to you years before to set me straight so I could've bought an RT instead and not been mislead into buying what I did buy. ;)

I found the NT700V to be superb as a touring machine. I'll agree that the standard OEM cases are small. All it takes though, is to buy the larger lids Honda sells and you now have a lot of built-in storage...about double what the smaller lids provide. One of the nice things about the way Honda did it, was they blended the panniers into the body so they don't stick out like tacked on after thoughts. The fairing is large enough to get behind it in the rain and stay pretty dry. Of course, no fairing will keep you dry when you stop. :) Honda also offers a lower fairing which keeps the feet out of the cold and wet. I used mine for 30,000 miles of commuting and trips, and it was flawless. FWIW, several members of the NT-Owners forum have exceeded 100,000 miles with theirs with nothing but wear and tear items. One guy has over 160,000 miles. And the drive shaft and final drives are holding up. The only failure was caused by the Honda dealership forgetting to lube the rear splines. Not a design fault, but a servicing fault. I found the air management to be superb also. No turbulence. And the adjustable windshield works great to either keep you out of the wind, or let you get a blast of refreshing air when it is hot outside. As for power, its not a sport bike, but I had no problems passing cars at all. More than once, I marveled at how the bike just eats away the miles. The only reason it didn't sell, was Honda didn't promote it here. It languished in the back corner of the dealerships. FWIW, I had a group of three BMW riders on the way to Mt. St. Helens ask me what model of BMW it was.

I find it interesting, the different take on the F800GT between real life and this forum. On this forum, the F800GT is under-powered and totally not suitable for real touring. Like if it was recognized as a real touring bike, then RT owners might feel challenged in some way. On the other hand, when I went to the Coeur d'Alene Getaway last fall, I was surprised at how many RT owners commented on how nice the F800GT was, like one would be in their near future. I get the feeling on this forum that unless it's a boxer, it's not a real BMW. I've done many a day of 10-12 hours of riding and arrived at the end of the day feeling fresh still. Mine has a Madstad windshield, and the result is the smoothest airflow over me I've ever experienced. I'm constantly amazed at how little I feel turbulence and wind gusts on the road, even though the bike is so light. BMW did something right in the design of this bike. :) The handlebar risers and lowered footpegs give a nice and relaxed ergonomic seating arrangement. And the two 37 liter top-opening panniers work great for stuffing full of things for a trip. With the top box I have, I can carry 119 liters of gear. That'll work nicely for the several week trips I have planned this summer already. And as for power...there's a YouTube video showing someone doing about 140 mph on one (not me).

What more do you need for a "real" touring motorcycle except the ability to get you there, feeling like you aren't beat up? Both of those bikes will do that handily.

BTW, the cost for my F800GT wasn't even close to an RT at @$9000.

Chris
Click to expand...

Huh? No, I think you misunderstand. NT700V and the F800GT look pretty darned close to what I'm looking for. They look like great touring bikes. But the NT700V weighs almost as much as an RT, and they both have 31" seat height which is stretching it for the average female (pun intended).
 
nickrides said:
Is the K75RT considered a smallish touring bike? I had my 1990 out yesterday for a 340 mile day ride and I've got to say that is one sweet low maintenance comfortable machine, inexpensive too. Fun to ride, good fairing protection and adequate baggage room. I really like mine!
Click to expand...

Not at 560lbs and a 32 inch seat.
 
bobzeliff said:
We all love HP, bigger is better and to some real extent it is. It is also marketing hype too. Manufacture like to sell bigger more expensive bikes.

Yes there is some comprise in suspension quality, braking prowess, and of course HP.

There are several bikes available today...most already mentioned. the Lowered F700GS is excellent. and at 70 hp has more HP than most Harleys. Add a good windshield (aeroflow) and good bags (Jessie's) and your are ready to go. I can vouch for this as I took an earlier version of this to Alaska ( with a friend who had R1200GSA) and kept up fine. I kept the bike for over 50k miles.

Less expensive, is the Suzuki SV650 road bike or the V-Strom 650 which can be lower with a set of inexpensive "dog bones" I believe the Kawa Versis is also worth a look.

All of these are good bikes

I do not know of any current 500 cc models...but I have not been paying attention.

FWIW I broke in to touring years ago on a CX500 with about 45 hp and it worked fine. My pre "Aventure" had me doing Labrador and remote northern Quebec campaign out on a Kawa KLR (the stock seat was horrible on 400 mile days).

Today's 650s are so much better!

Touring long distance on bike like these are fine
Click to expand...

Those Suzukis look really close to what I'm talking about. Lightweight and low seats. ABS brakes. If they just had a bit more plastic to keep the wind and the rain off the rider, they'd be exactly what I'm talking about.
 
The NT700V is a heavy bike. Not as much as bikes like the FJR or others, but still heavy. In contrast, the F800GT feels like a toy when you're moving it around. I realized I wasn't getting any younger, and while I had no problems moving the 570 lbs of the NT, I could see where I'd need something lighter some day. You don't get as much fairing protection on the GT as on the NT or your RT, but I found it enough. The feet will get into the wet more too, but I just picked up some waterproof boots and I was fine.

Let me toss out another idea for you. A Suzuki Burgman 400 scooter. Yup, a scooter. I did my SS1000 on one, and it was like sitting on a barcalounger. Put a different windshield on it...the adjustable Givi is perfect, and you can go anywhere with it. It's low to the ground. The seat is wide and comfortable. Under that seat is 62 liters of usable storage space. The fairing provides better protection against wet and cold than my NT had as well. If you look for a used one, just get a 2011 or later.

A rider took his Yamaha Majesty...similar bike...from Vancouver, BC down to California, then across the lower USA to the East Coast and up in a big circle. He camped virtually the whole way and had the bike loaded down with gear. He also rode through the outskirts of a hurricane and had no problems.

You may think 400ccs isn't enough. Will they reach freeway speeds? Yes. I had my first Burgman 400 up to around 98 mph and it was still accelerating. I commuted up and down I-5 in Seattle rush hour traffic on one for 77,000 miles. And they don't break down. There's a 650 version, but it is totally different. Much heavier. And the CVT has a history of failing.

Chris
 
Last edited:
daboo said:
The NT700V is a heavy bike. Not as much as bikes like the FJR or others, but still heavy. In contrast, the F800GT feels like a toy when you're moving it around. I realized I wasn't getting any younger, and while I had no problems moving the 570 lbs of the NT, I could see where I'd need something lighter some day. You don't get as much fairing protection on the GT as on the NT or your RT, but I found it enough. The feet will get into the wet more too, but I just picked up some waterproof boots and I was fine.

Let me toss out another idea for you. A Suzuki Burgman 400 scooter. Yup, a scooter. I did my SS1000 on one, and it was like sitting on a barcalounger. Put a different windshield on it...the adjustable Givi is perfect, and you can go anywhere with it. It's low to the ground. The seat is wide and comfortable. Under that seat is 62 liters of usable storage space. The fairing provides better protection against wet and cold than my NT had as well. If you look for a used one, just get a 2010 or later.

A rider took his Yamaha Majesty...similar bike...from Vancouver, BC down to California, then across the lower USA to the East Coast and up in a big circle. He camped virtually the whole way and had the bike loaded down with gear. He also rode through the outskirts of a hurricane and had no problems.

You may think 400ccs isn't enough. Will they reach freeway speeds? Yes. I had my first Burgman 400 up to around 98 mph and it was still accelerating. I commuted up and down I-5 in Seattle rush hour traffic on one for 77,000 miles. And they don't break down. There's a 650 version, but it is totally different. Much heavier. And the CVT has a history of failing.

Chris
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for the heads up on the Suzuki Bergman. That may be just the ticket. All it needs to do is 70MPH.
 
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