Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 69

Thread: Octane Question

  1. #31
    Registered User kioolt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    717
    The use of the AKI rating is most likely government regulated. I doubt the use of the words super or premium when talking about gas are.
    2004 R1150RT 186,800 miles , 1991 K100LT 128,700 miles, 1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
    Total 422,400 BMW miles
    AMA,BMWRA,BMWMOA
    The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.

  2. #32
    Registered User LFarling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA
    Posts
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by littlebriar View Post
    Here's a scan of manual. US versionAttachment 61286
    Reading comprehension here folks.

    As I said this is a list. Preferred, second choice, third choice.

    I mean even when you see it in Black and White you want to argue over it.

    Super unleaded is what the preferred recommended gas for the LC RT is. In PA we consider Super unleaded 93. We have 87,89,91,93 at most stations.

    You can try and justify using 87 or 89 but you are just mind bumping yourself.

    Insane so many would try and justify using swag gas in a motor made to run on Super unleaded.
    Lee
    2017.5 R 1200 GSW

  3. #33
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,324
    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    Reading comprehension here folks.

    As I said this is a list. Preferred, second choice, third choice.

    I mean even when you see it in Black and White you want to argue over it.

    Super unleaded is what the preferred recommended gas for the LC RT is. In PA we consider Super unleaded 93. We have 87,89,91,93 at most stations.

    You can try and justify using 87 or 89 but you are just mind bumping yourself.

    Insane so many would try and justify using swag gas in a motor made to run on Super unleaded.

    You mean "black and white" like this forum thread? Of course I note you are typing on behalf of "we" people of PA...that elected or appointed?
    F850GS

    MOA #46783

  4. #34
    Registered User marcopolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Alexandria Virginia/Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    957
    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    Reading comprehension here folks.

    As I said this is a list. Preferred, second choice, third choice.

    I mean even when you see it in Black and White you want to argue over it.

    Super unleaded is what the preferred recommended gas for the LC RT is. In PA we consider Super unleaded 93. We have 87,89,91,93 at most stations.

    You can try and justify using 87 or 89 but you are just mind bumping yourself.

    Insane so many would try and justify using swag gas in a motor made to run on Super unleaded.
    I don't agree with your conclusion. No way I think that that's a list of three recommended fuel grades, as you seem to imply. Also, I don't think anyone is trying to justify anything, other than using the fuel BMW recommends.

    My 2015 GSA manual has two boxes that talk about recommended fuel.

    Here's the first:

    "Recommended Fuel Quality

    Super unleaded (max. 10 % ethanol, E10)
    89 AKI (95 ROZ/RON)
    89 AKI
    "


    Here's the second:


    "Alternative Fuel Quality

    Regular unleaded (restrictions with regard to power and fuel consumption.
    If the engine should for example be operated with 91 RON in countries with lower fuel quality,
    the motorcycle must be respectively programmed first by your authorized BMW Motorrad retailer.) (max. 10 % ethanol, E10)
    87 AKI (91 ROZ/RON) 87 AKI
    "


    Seems pretty clear to me that the recommended grade is 89 AKI, but that you could use regular 87 AKI, if you first have your bike reprogrammed by a dealer. Also, as I said earlier, my dealer took great pains to point out, when I took delivery, that the recommended fuel grade was now 89, as opposed to the 91 that was recommended for my 2006 RT. The RT called for "Super Plus Premium, 98 ROZ".

    In the end, of course, put anything in the bike you want. It's your bike. I just don't think it's in any way unclear in BMW's documentation. And, despite what's been written in this thread, I would find it hard to believe that BMW could have erred in thousands of manuals for a variety of new boxer models.
    Mark
    2015 R 1200 GS Adventure

  5. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Daytona Beach, Florida
    Posts
    5
    On a side note, I typically use 93 non-ethanol. If that's not available, 93 with no more than 10% ethanol. Can't imagine that I would consider 87, or even 89 for that matter.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by jrgator View Post
    On a side note, I typically use 93 non-ethanol. If that's not available, 93 with no more than 10% ethanol. Can't imagine that I would consider 87, or even 89 for that matter.
    OK, that is what you do and think, but what precisely does BMW specify for your model?
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  7. #37
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,063
    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    EVERYONE STOP! Now at least one of these experts post your degree(s) in petroleum engineering so we can decide who MIGHT have more than a home read acumen in what they type. Otherwise pick a number and go for it....
    No need to shout Dan.

    I don't feel that an engineering degree is required to deal with most of what is being discussed here - What AKI rating is BMW actually referring to in their literature, but I did speak to one and did report their input which supported my understanding of things..

    The issue is more one of too much misinformation running rampant, in addition to people making statements without sufficient depth of knowledge/understanding/experience of the field.

    If we had a better-standardised reporting of AKI ratings vs RON or if BMW were contacted to clarify then there'd be very little issue. RON vs AKI can be misleading because it isn't really an exact conversion, but, one must use a conversion to address the two with respect to each other.

    Unfortunately, you can find dozens of RON to AKI conversions that say different things and that is why, some time ago, I contacted Shell's Technical Department and spoke with one of their Petroleum Engineers and reported their response to the question of "What Shell AKI rating should I use if the manual specifies 95-RON." The response was 91-AKI. I asked about their Shell V-Power Nitro+ 99 that I see in Scotland and England (99-RON) and he stated that it tests out at 93-AKI.

    It only takes common sense to identify that it appears BMW perhaps made a mistake in the manual. If you look at the BMW Motorrad site for both the US and Canada (as I did when the RTW was introduced), you would see that in the US the Site calls for using "Premium" fuel (no one will argue that that isn't 91-AKI or higher). In Canada it calls for "Unleaded super, octane number 95 (RON)", which is known here to be 91-AKI.

    If you consider that for their new Limited Edition 2017 HP4 Racer BMW specify "Superplus unleaded petrol, minimum octane number 98 (RON)" for Canada and the Canadian fuel that is stated to be 93-AKI and 94-AKI is identified as 98-RON than, guess what - 95-RON should = 91-AKI.

    In Europe (Germany in particular) fuel I've seen at the pumps that is referred to as SuperPlus is 98-RON, and fuel labelled just Super (not SuperPLus) is 95-RON. If you look at the nomniculture used to describe them these all fall into place properly, however, when trying to identify them by other means things get extremely confused, and that's where the problems begin.

    I have used the table in the following for many years: http://www.pencilgeek.org/2009/05/oc...nversions.htmlOctane Rating Table.jpg
    You can also use this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

    In a nutshell, what all that gives you is:

    ---RON-to-AKI---
    98-RON = 93-AKI - SuperPremium or SuperPLus
    95-RON = 91-AKI - Super or Premium
    93-RON = 89-AKI - Mid-grade
    90-RON = 87-AKI - Regular
    These descriptive terms align "generally" across both what I've seen in Europe (RON) and in North America (AKI) when matched up like this but only irregularily (hence the confusion), if aligned in any othe manner.

    For me, the biggest problem is having two standards when looking at a manual, it would be much preferable to use just one. The RON standard has very little to do with if a fuel will get into detonation in a car or motorcycle in the real world, this is where AKI does a much better (still imperfect) job.

    YMMV
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: 2019 R1250RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT / '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  8. #38
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,063
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    OK, that is what you do and think, but what precisely does BMW specify for your model?
    Paul, I do believe that is part of the problem. BMW in many places specifies "95-RON or 89-AKI" as being equivalent.

    It is my understanding that 95-RON = 91-AKI. I think that when being translated they messed up and used the "minimum" permissible AKI (89) when they were rferring to the "recommended" AKI which I believe to be 91-AKI.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: 2019 R1250RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT / '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  9. #39
    Registered User LFarling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA
    Posts
    402
    Your bikes do as you please for sure.

    If you can not RTFM right, and interpret a listing, as use of any of these in this order, (starting with Super unleaded) then shame on you.

    If the listing was the other way around in order would it make sense to you?

    As far a "We" in PA yes I should have said I however it does not change the fact Super unleaded is 93. Or that We(as all people who live in PA) have access to 87,89,91,93 gas. If you tell a gas jockey you want Super unleaded you are getting 93. Premium unleaded would get you 91.

    I am out on this like I said your bikes run what you want in it. Read a listing of preferred requirements, in descending order, and say it is not a listing is fine with me. Got nothing invested in your bike.

    https://www.exxon.com/en/unleaded-gasoline
    Last edited by LFarling; 04-21-2017 at 06:38 PM.
    Lee
    2017.5 R 1200 GSW

  10. #40
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southern Tier of New York
    Posts
    1,895
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    OK, that is what you do and think, but what precisely does BMW specify for your model?
    I'll add to what Alan Coles has offered. BMW's advice is anything but precise. Some results of Googling follow:

    https://www.exxon.com/en/octane-rating

    The octane ratings of Exxon and Mobil gasoline
    • Exxon and Mobil Regular Unleaded Octane 87
    • Exxon Plus and Mobil Special Unleaded Octane 89
    • Exxon Supreme and Mobil Super+ Unleaded Octane 91-93

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline
    In the UK, ordinary regular unleaded gasoline is 95 RON (commonly available), premium unleaded gasoline is always 97 RON, and super unleaded is usually 97–98 RON.
    In the US, octane ratings in unleaded fuels can vary between 85[16] and 87 AKI (91–92 RON) for regular, through 89–90 AKI (94–95 RON) for mid-grade (equivalent to European regular), up to 90–94 AKI (95–99 RON) for premium (European premium).

    https://myweego.com/2015/12/08/regul...hould-you-use/
    You see the numbers every time you fill up your tank – Regular fuel is always associated with 87. Premium fuel is typically rated at 91, and Super is usually rated at 93. Those numbers are actually telling you how much octane is in that fuel: 87% octane for your Regular gasoline; 91% octane for Premium, and 93% for Super.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/what-...ium-gas-2012-9
    In Europe, the octane rating on the pump is simply the RON figure. America, by contrast, uses the average of the RON and the MON figures, called the AKI (anti-knock index). Thus, 97 octane “super unleaded” in Britain is roughly equivalent to 91 octane premium in the United States.


    http://wikicars.org/en/Octane_rating
    Germany, "Normal" 91 RON, "Super" 95 RON and "Super Plus" 98 RON is practically available everywhere. Big suppliers like Shell or Aral offer 100 RON gasoline (Shell V-Power, Aral Ultimate) at almost every fuel station. "Normal" 91 RON is more and more disappearing, because lower production amounts make it more expensive than "Super" 95 RON, so it is often not offered any more.
    United Kingdom, 'regular' petrol has an octane rating of 95 RON, with 97 RON fuel being widely available as the Super Unleaded.

    Generally, octane ratings are higher in Europe than they are in North America and most other parts of the world. This is especially true when comparing the lowest available octane level in each country. In many parts of Europe, 95 RON (90-91 AKI) is the minimum available standard, with 97/98 RON being higher specification (being called Super Unleaded).

    Besides any confusion caused by RON/MON/AKI numbers, there is also the differences among locations as to what exactly "Super Unleaded" means.

    I recall using 89 AKI in my '03 RT and noticing that with 91 AKI, the bike ran smoother.

    There is also the possibility that the owner's manual may have been written for the UK, and then borrowed for the US and Canada, a possible source of the imprecise usage of the term "Super Unleaded."

    Harry
    Last edited by AKsuited; 04-21-2017 at 11:39 PM.
    My fleet: 2015 R1200GS, 2017 Toyota Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid)

  11. #41

    E-0

    We have E-0 ,91 as a tier one fuel in the area. The difference in performance is quite noticeable . Not just in raw power, but in starting, idling, roll-on, and mileage. The same characteristics apply on our performance 2X snowmobiles. When on tour, if not available, we run 91 tier 1 and polish it with a trace of upper cyl. lube. The most important is who bought what fuel before you. If the car before you bought 87 and you pull up, your going to get around 2 gal. of 87 before you get what you thought. So there's wisdom in going higher than book as dilution could be a factor. Best bet is 91 E-0 as it usually is in a non select pump.

  12. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    998
    Quote Originally Posted by roadancer View Post
    We have E-0 ,91 as a tier one fuel in the area. The difference in performance is quite noticeable . Not just in raw power, but in starting, idling, roll-on, and mileage. The same characteristics apply on our performance 2X snowmobiles. When on tour, if not available, we run 91 tier 1 and polish it with a trace of upper cyl. lube. The most important is who bought what fuel before you. If the car before you bought 87 and you pull up, your going to get around 2 gal. of 87 before you get what you thought. So there's wisdom in going higher than book as dilution could be a factor. Best bet is 91 E-0 as it usually is in a non select pump.
    The question of what's left in the pump line from previous user has been asked here in California many times. The people who monitor the pumps, weights and measures, say less than a pint gets mixed
    As to the octane of the gas you use, pick one, if your happy with it, use it
    My bike seems to like chevron premium the best
    I tend to stay away from no name stations, scares me what concoction they may put in the gas

  13. #43
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    5,476
    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    Your bikes do as you please for sure.

    If you can not RTFM right, and interpret a listing, as use of any of these in this order, (starting with Super unleaded) then shame on you.

    If the listing was the other way around in order would it make sense to you?

    As far a "We" in PA yes I should have said I however it does not change the fact Super unleaded is 93. Or that We(as all people who live in PA) have access to 87,89,91,93 gas. If you tell a gas jockey you want Super unleaded you are getting 93. Premium unleaded would get you 91.

    I am out on this like I said your bikes run what you want in it. Read a listing of preferred requirements, in descending order, and say it is not a listing is fine with me. Got nothing invested in your bike.

    https://www.exxon.com/en/unleaded-gasoline
    "We" in PA? This is getting good.

    The book, from the manuafacturer, says 89 AKI. That's good enough for this "we" in PA
    Last edited by 36654; 04-22-2017 at 01:12 AM.
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  14. #44
    Registered User LFarling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA
    Posts
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    "We" in PA? This is getting good.

    The book, from the manuafacturer, says 89 AKI. That's good enough for this "we" in PA
    The book says Super unleaded. But stick you head in the sand and ignore that.

    I have never seen so many ways to try and spin, Super unleaded, into whatever I feel like putting in the tank.

    12.5:1 compression and you want to run 87 or 89?

    Like they say, the only thing cheap about BMW is the rider.

    All I can say I will not rise to any more bait. I am truly done with this thread.

    Like I say run what you want in your bike I did not buy it you did. But for people to argue what gas to run when it says Super unleaded is just amazing to me.

    The GS needs a plug or jumper to run lower octane gas. What do you think that is doing? It is detuning the bike to run the lower octane.

    All this other stuff is smoke and mirrors to justify you running cheap gas to pinch a few pennies. It is maddening to see sheep following each other.

    I would love to see a scope of your piston tops or your valve seats.

    And i ask you this, why does the LC need plugs every 12K? Have you seen your plugs at 12K? What is the correlation to gas octane, how it combustion in the chamber, and spark plug wear related? Do you know? Do you care? Or is it just run 89 and keep your head in the sand and pennies in your wallet?

    Do you know how much 10% ethanol lowers octane BTU? How about if you get some phase separation in the tank? Probably not as you just love you some 89 octane.

    I am so surprised on a multi National Forum only a few people get this. It is really disturbing actually as many people will read this mis information and never know it is not accurate and just follow the other sheep.
    Lee
    2017.5 R 1200 GSW

  15. #45
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southern Tier of New York
    Posts
    1,895
    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    The book says Super unleaded.
    My point exactly.

    Harry
    My fleet: 2015 R1200GS, 2017 Toyota Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid)

Similar Threads

  1. Octane levels
    By Justscootin in forum Motorrad
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-13-2012, 11:24 PM
  2. Octane and altitude question
    By glenfiddich in forum Motorrad
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-06-2012, 11:58 PM
  3. 87 Octane in my 08 RT/Octane Booster Question
    By cookie in forum Hexheads/Camheads
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 10-04-2012, 05:30 PM
  4. 91 Octane Vs. 89
    By dohboy in forum Hexheads/Camheads
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-27-2011, 06:10 PM
  5. Nube question / 87 octane in K100
    By martee99 in forum Flying Brick K-bikes
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-16-2008, 08:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •