Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries????

Looking to replace my Odyssey PC680, again.

I buy a lot of batteries every year for our equipment and he treats me pretty good. He suggested I look at Scorpions line of Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.

I use FLA in all my other bikes but my go to ride wants a great battery and the PC680 has just been short of bragging about. Don't see an advantage between a cheap FLA and the Odyssey.

I have been suitably impressed by my 4-year old Shorai.

But beware, the battery thread cometh!

I think, I'm the only person on earth that has had a good experience with the Westco products...

BC1100S said:

I have been suitably impressed by my 4-year old Shorai.

But beware, the battery thread cometh!

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Be careful. They might not let you fly your motorcycle on an airplane.

FWIW, I've never had a failure with $40 AGM batteries from ebay, but do replace them every 4-5 years regardless of condition and use battery tenders. I suspect regular use of a tender makes a big difference in how long a battery will last.

I am in the process of moving my remaining FLA batteries over to AGM batteries. Primary reason is that I'm tired of FLA batteries puking acid over my bikes. My original survivor R90S has to have the front section of the swing-arm repainted because the battery decided to expell some of its liquid while on a quality trickle charger. So I'm moving to AGM but thinking about LiFePO4 slightly.

My three PC680s lasted a very long time and performed very well. With recent developments over the past 5+ years, there are now very good alternatives to the PC680, etc., that are relatively reasonable and that's my current focus. The cost/benefit pay-off doesn't seem to be there yet for LiFePO4. Perhaps I'm wrong and someone can enlighten me. ;-)

I've had one LiFePO4 battery, but that was several years ago when they first came out and it virtually had a meltdown. They've come a long way since then, but I still have questions about them that I've not persued finding answers to.

1. Is an older, mid-70's Norton and BMW /6, stock charging system, capable of doing a proper full charge on a LiFePO4 battery?
3. Do they still require a specialised battery charger for long-term storage?

AlanColes said:

The cost/benefit pay-off doesn't seem to be there yet for LiFePO4. Perhaps I'm wrong and someone can enlighten me. ;-)

I've had one LiFePO4 battery, but that was several years ago when they first came out and it virtually had a meltdown. They've come a long way since then, but I still have questions about them that I've not persued finding answers to.

1. Is an older, mid-70's Norton and BMW /6, stock charging system, capable of doing a proper full charge on a LiFePO4 battery?
3. Do they still require a specialised battery charger for long-term storage?

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I can only comment based on my experience and opinion. For some reason, other opinions may differ from mine...

From a cost benefit perspective, LiFe may not cut it for you. From a weight savings perspective however, its HUGE. Knowing the size of the battery in your R90S, replacing it with a LiFe would be like getting 3 free horsepower plus an improvement in handling/braking.

I do not know if your /6 charging system can support a LiFe battery. A buddy of mine does have one in his R100RS as well as his R1100S, if that's any help. I can almost guarantee the Norton won't be happy.

When I'm not using the bike, I charge my LiFe every 2 weeks for about 10 minutes using a Battery Tender Junior. The battery condition light turns green after less than a minute but I leave it connected "just because". During the riding season, I never need to charge it.

Hope that helps.

BC1100S said:

... From a weight savings perspective however, its HUGE. Knowing the size of the battery in your R90S, replacing it with a LiFe would be like getting 3 free horsepower plus an improvement in handling/braking...

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If you want to take a simple power-to-weight ratio it would be the equivalant of 2.25 HP (3.3% increase). However, having done a fair bit of racing and tuning/dyno testing in the past, it isn't a difference that would be felt a a hugh improvement. Yes, something like 60 pounds will be quite noticable, but a 16 pound reduction in sprung, non-rotating mass, is far more difficult to get excited about for a bike that is ridden not much past 80% - 90% at the best of times and perhaps at 95% extemely rarely. Yes, the improvement is there, but it is more theoretical than day-to-day applicable. Now if that were 16 pounds of rotating un-sprung weigth savings than that would definiteably be noticed.

The weight difference between my heavy cold-weather gear (BMW TrailGuard) including thermal liner, gloves and BMW Allround boots vs BMW Airflow suit and BMW RIDE Sneakers is 50% of that weight savings and I don't notice the bike performing any better when I wear the lighter gear. I do notice that weight on my body and my agility, but it is too small for me to notice it in the bike's performance on the street.

BC1100S said:

... I do not know if your /6 charging system can support a LiFe battery. A buddy of mine does have one in his R100RS as well as his R1100S, if that's any help. I can almost guarantee the Norton won't be happy...

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I don't know either. I do know that both are marginal at best, but don't know the specifics of what the LiFePO4 requires for proper charging. Read it when they first came out and seem to recall that it wouldn't work for my older bikes, but could be wrong. I know that even upgrading the Norton to a Halogen headlight discharges the battery (have to fit an LED).

dieselyoda said:

Looking to replace my Odyssey PC680, again.

I the PC680 has just been short of bragging about. Don't see an advantage between a cheap FLA and the Odyssey.

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My PC 680 in my K100 was installed in April of 2010 and I just replaced it this week with another Odyessey PC 680. That's seven riding seasons for that Odyssey and it was still functioning. Replaced it rather than being suprised that eight might not be a lucky number for it.

On a side note, whenever I return to the garage, I always put the bikes on battery tenders as I never know which bike is being ridden next or how long one will be sitting. Could this be part of the difference between the life of our Odysseys?

(Of course where you live, I gather that Hell literally freezes over for much of the year and that possibly affects all batteries in Manitoba.)

AlanColes said:

...it isn't a difference that would be felt a a hugh improvement.

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Well, I can feel the difference going from one bike to the other (same bike) but if you want to get into the theory of it all, we can discuss weight centralization, weight as it affects handling dependent upon distance from axis (roll moment), inertial effect of weight, etc. But let's agree that: Less weight good, more weight bad.

Do your research on the Lithium batteries, they have issues that may or may not be important to you. The charging system on our bikes be they airhead or oilhead is designed to charge and maintain Lead Acid type batteries.

On the issue of weight difference on a non racing bike, its like buying a 1 or 2 person tent, the weight difference isn't going to matter.