Fragile kickstand?

jeffshoaf said:

Hopefully I'm not just being hardheaded, but I can't help but wonder in his tumble was due to the stand digging into soft ground instead of it breaking.

Click to expand...

I saw the incident report and the request for repair. It was not a case of "soft ground." A loud noise immediately preceded the tip–over and the fall. Something in the side stand mechanism broke.

Is there some reason that you're so intent on disputing what actually happened? Several manuals warn against putting extra weight, on the side stand. Standing on the peg to mount, does this, and does it at quite some distance from the side stand pivot point, giving that weight considerable leverage against the side stand and its parts. More than likely the rider was also using the right handgrip to balance himself as he swung his right leg over the seat, adding to the leverage and weight applied against the side stand and its parts.

I do a high kick to get my foot/leg over the seat. Some scuff marks have appeared. Voni steps over, knee first. For when this no longer works BMW makes scooters, and Harley makes low riders.

skibumwi said:

I always step up on the left peg before swinging my leg over when the cases are on my '16 RT. Stand seems perfectly solid to me.

Dealer is the one that suggested it....

Ski

Click to expand...

Agree. Me too.

Bikes can have design flaws for sure, but I've never heard of this one on the R1200RT.

The KTM 950/990/1190/1290 Adventures have such an issue with the side stand. Um, bolts directly to the engine case. Yikes!

http://blackdogcw.com/ktm-1190-1290-side-stand-explained/

zenwhipper said:

Bikes can have design flaws for sure, but I've never heard of this one on the R1200RT.

Click to expand...

I'd not consider this to be a "design flaw." BMW in several of their manuals specifically state that the side stand is not to be used for anything other than supporting the weight of the bike. Using it to mount the bike, far exceeds that.

BTW, I just spoke to the (now retired) officer who saw the incident, described in previous posts where something in a motor officer's RTP kickstand broke, throwing him to the ground as he stood on the left foot peg to mount his bike. One member here "wonder[ed]" if "his tumble was due to the stand digging into soft ground, instead of [something] breaking."

In fact, the fall happened in a covered parking structure at a mall - concrete, so no dirt, or other surface that could have softened in the summer heat or with moisture, was present.

Strangely, the officer it happened to, who is now a high ranking administrator on the department, claims to have no recollection of the incident at all! LOL. I shouldn't laugh too hard though. I'm sure that I've blocked out many embarrassing incidents in my past too.

beemerdood said:

I saw the incident report and the request for repair. It was not a case of "soft ground." A loud noise immediately preceded the tip–over and the fall. Something in the side stand mechanism broke.

Is there some reason that you're so intent on disputing what actually happened? Several manuals warn against putting extra weight, on the side stand. Standing on the peg to mount, does this, and does it at quite some distance from the side stand pivot point, giving that weight considerable leverage against the side stand and its parts. More than likely the rider was also using the right handgrip to balance himself as he swung his right leg over the seat, adding to the leverage and weight applied against the side stand and its parts.

Click to expand...

I apologize - didn't mean to insinuate anything. I read your original posting and if it mentioned an incident report and request for repair I missed it, but it did mention some lack of remembrance of details. Thus my posting regarding soft ground...

Wow - lots of differing opinions! It just seems odd to me that the R1200RT is rated to carry almost 500 lbs but the sidestand evidently isn't. Plus I really want to find a way to make one work for me without carrying a footstool along.

jeffshoaf said:

Wow - lots of differing opinions! It just seems odd to me that the R1200RT is rated to carry almost 500 lbs but the sidestand evidently isn't. Plus I really want to find a way to make one work for me without carrying a footstool along.

Click to expand...

I think that you're conflating two things. One is the "Maximum payload" that BMW assigns to the 2016 RT (just using that bike because I have the manual handy) of 221 Kg (487 Lb) with the forces that can be applied when someone is mounting the bike. Apply JUST that person's weight to this situation is not realistic when you take into account that more than likely he's holding onto the handle bars and using them to assist his mounting. The right grip (if mounting from the left side of the bike) will be used to leverage the weight of the rider over the seat and probably will apply more than that weight at a large distance from the kickstand. This applies a large lever arm to the kickstand attachment point to the frame. I'm no engineer, but it seems to me that point loads, for an instant, could easily exceed the max load that BMW envisioned when designing the mechanism.

I have issues with mounting, especially when carrying a bag on the passenger seat, such as I do when camping or on long trips and carrying lots of camera gear. There's no way that I can stand on the ground and raise my leg high enough to clear the bag. I stand back from the bike, and with an assist from my hand, grabbing my right pants leg and lifting, I throw my right leg up so the boot lands on the far side of the seat. Then, with my right leg extended, I hop towards the bike, until my butt hits the seat. Dismounting is done by putting my left foot on the ground, facing the bike and hopping backwards until my right boot is near the seat, then with another assist by lifting the leg with a handful of pant leg, and hopping backwards another few steps until the boot is clear of the seat.

Sometimes, when I’m tired at the end of the day on a long ride, when I don't have the bag on the passenger seat, I'll mount by placing my right knee on the seat, grabbing the boot and lifting it over the seat.

Come to think of it, your "footstool" doesn't sound like such a bad idea!

using side sstand to mount 2016 1200 gs

71 and sneaking up on 72. My legs do not quite bend like they did at 52 or 62. I lift right leg with hand to mount and slide over seat. BUTTTT getting off I put the kick stand down, bike in first gear, right hand on brake, and stand straight up and swing right leg over right bag and seat. If I have a small tailbag I can still pull it off. If not, I have to make everyone laugh while I slide off the seat and stumble to maintain balance. I have had 6 Beemers and never broke a side stand or center stand.

Interesting takes on the sidestand, I've watched some pretty heavy weights use the left peg as a step on various bikes and never saw a failure. On thing I've learned over the years is many motor officers board there bikes from the right, I understand the reasoning behind this, less exposure to traffic, most use the right peg as a step. Those worried about sidestand failure might consider this technique, seems strange at first but after a few tries it gets normal

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSZB6vsF0jr/ not too fragile for these beemers

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

PGlaves said:

I think they are wrong. If right - the bike is way to fragile for me to buy. But you do need to name the dealership so I can avoid going there. This crap from some staff at some dealers demeans the brand.

Filling in a bit more in your profile might be useful to both of us, too.

Click to expand...

I think the real answer is "maybe". In general side stands and center stands hold up extremely well. I have seen failures of both on many brands, except maybe H-D if I'm not mistaken, but it is possible for a failure and/or a failure of a related component to occur. With what I've seen after being in the business for 35 years I wouldn't really worry about it. Maybe just inspect it once a month or something to that effect although it can be hard to see all the related components. I wouldn't lose sleep over it if this is the only way you can really get on the bike.

just to close the loop on this thread...

I went to the next closest dealer last Thursday; they're about 100 miles away. I talked to the sales guy for awhile and asked about the using the foot peg to mount. He said that he uses the foot peg to mount his gs! Went for a test ride on a demo RT using the "shop" low seat and was able to mount and dismount without scraping the pannier or using the peg.

So... My new 2017 RT should be home some time Tuesday. I'll avoid using the peg to mount unless I'm really tired or my back is bothering me.

I happily and wholeheartedly recommend Greg and Doug at Motorcycles of Charlotte!

Nice
Good luck with the new ride.
Gary

ExGMan said:

Jeff - Page 97 of the 2015 RT rider's manual says: "The side stand is designed to support only the weight of the motorcycle. Do not lean or sit on the motorcycle with the side stand extended."

Click to expand...

They've got themselves covered, then. You break it, you buy it.

It would appear there's a market for aftermarket iron sidestands for these bikes, as there was for Airheads. To be mounted somewhere besides the tab for the OE sidestand. Some may recall that in the Airhead days you even weren't supposed to demount the bike from the centerstand while sitting on it ... stand beside it. One of the things that makes BMWs a little expensive is use of exotic materials to keep their weight down. It's the cheap motorcycles that end up heavy.

That aftermarket solution sounds unlikely, best to modify technique. This thread a learning experience for some that are doing it wrong. Criticism of the salesperson was unwarranted.

jeffshoaf said:

just to close the loop on this thread...

I went to the next closest dealer last Thursday; they're about 100 miles away. I talked to the sales guy for awhile and asked about the using the foot peg to mount. He said that he uses the foot peg to mount his gs! Went for a test ride on a demo RT using the "shop" low seat and was able to mount and dismount without scraping the pannier or using the peg.

So... My new 2017 RT should be home some time Tuesday. I'll avoid using the peg to mount unless I'm really tired or my back is bothering me.

I happily and wholeheartedly recommend Greg and Doug at Motorcycles of Charlotte!

Click to expand...

+1 on all the folks at Motorcycles of Charlotte! Have been dealing with them since 2000 when I bought my first BMW. Great dealership with honest folks.

LFarling said:

So does anyone make a shorter or even a aftermarket side stand for the RT LC? I really would like mine 3/8-1/2" shorter as I feel the bike sits too strait on the side stand.

Click to expand...

The RS has the same problem. The bike sits so straight you can't park on a road shoulder.
Both of us leave the suspension on 2 up which raises the back end and allows the bike to lean a little when on the sidestand.

ExGMan said:

Whenever I am touring, I have a big waterproof bag on the rear part of the pillion seat and the luggage rack on my 2015 RT. I used to try to thread my leg through the gap between the tank and the bag, but started mounting by stepping on the left peg. I still do it when the bike's loaded, even though the 2015 RT Rider's manual on page 97 says that the sidestand is only designed to hold the weight of the motorcycle.

One of my pals is RangerReece, and when visiting him in Alabama last Fall I observed that he does not mount the bike using the left peg and the side stand, but instead puts his right knee on the seat, grabs his right boot with his right hand, pulls it toward his butt and gets his leg across the seat that way. I tried to do the same motion but my 72-year old knee didn't like it much. Seeing him do it, makes it look pretty easy.

Click to expand...

ExGMan....I know thus is a 4year old post but new reply, but want to thank you for the insight from Ranger Reece. Going to use this mount for my new to me 94 1100 RS. Coming from the GS line, I've always used the climb and mount process but the older RS stand just doesn't feel up to the game, so your method via Ranger Reese is well received.

LT Centerstand

No mentioned in all of the posting's that the LT 1200 had an electronic centerstand that would raise and lower the bike with the rider sitting on the seat. Pretty cool feature for a big heavy motorcycle, guess BMW had to save a few pennies and drop that feature from any other motorcycles?

I've had a side stand fail...but it wasn't BMW's fault. It was on a lowered R1100R and the stand failed at the seam a welder created to lower the side stand. It failed in a truck stop parking lot along I-40 near Tucumcari, NM, a long ways from home. I wasn't trying to get on the bike at the time. From what I saw, I'm guessing that a car tapped the fully loaded bike, pushing it slightly "uphill" and the stand just gave up. That was a fun adventure to resolve.

But since then I tried to train myself to not use the pegs. I'm 58-years-old, 6 feet tall, 170 pounds with significant arthritis in my hips. I found a way to pivot and swing my leg over the R1100R and my R1100RSL if it's not loaded. If fully loaded with a dry bag on the seat, I have to kick my leg over -- and that takes a one to three practice kicks, which provides some entertainment to other people in gas station parking lots.

For that, I prefer to yell out, "Just wait until you're this old!" I try not to add any profanity in that, but sometimes I fail.

And now I have a "little" G310GS. There is absolutely no way I'm going to swing my leg over this bike. I park with getting on and off in mind, grab the front brake so the bike won't move and climb onto the left peg -- which is exactly what the sales person at the BMW dealership recommended. I love the bike -- and have zero problems with my feet down, low speed control, etc. So, yeah -- I can't swing my leg over it, but that doesn't mean I should be on a scooter or in a battery-powered chair.

While I don't trust my 1990's side stands entirely, my 21st century "import" bike seems rock solid. I'm good with using the pegs on it.