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Thread: 2002 K1200RS Clutch Slip

  1. #16
    Kein Nasebohrer RBEmerson's Avatar
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    OT but 58058D, what else have you had to do to keep your KRS going to 137K?
    Some people are wise. Some people are otherwise.

  2. #17
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58058D View Post
    While the rear main could be the most common culprit in 98Lee's experience (vastly more than mine), it is certainly not the only cause of a slipping clutch, especially a later K1200RS. I had the rear main go, the trans input seal go, etc on various K bikes over the years. Most recently for me was the Clutch Slave seal going bad while on the road (96,000 miles). This caused the clutch fluid to run down the rod that goes through the center of the trans from the back all the way to the center of the clutch basket. This fluid causes the trans input shaft seal to fail and the result is trans oil on the clutch as well as clutch fluid on the clutch and in the housing. Failure on the road is a pain as no matter how much clutch fluid (brake fluid) you add so you get a little clutch action, it has to go somewhere and that is into the trans and onto the clutch and the slippage just gets worse and worse.
    Which is exactly why it is so often recommended to drill a small weep hole (1.0-1.5mm) in the bottom of the recess that holds the clutch slave cylinder. That way, if the slave starts leaking the fluid--which is DOT 4 brake fluid-- can drain away and be less likely to follow the clutch pushrods into the trans. It also leaves a tell-tale trail on the back side of the trans so you know for sure when the slave cylinder is leaking.

    Lots of threads over on http://www.I-BMW.com detailing the clutch and seals repair.

    Best,
    DG
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST 1984 R80 G/S-PD 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C 2010 K1300GT 2018 R1200GS
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  3. #18
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    Been there.....

    The clutch on my 2003 K12RS started slipping on the way to last year's National in western NY. I babied it all weekend. Got me home and I replaced it all in the following weeks.
    A few observations, if you are considering doing this yourself. Hardest part is finding a way to support the bike while you remove the pieces to which all its supporting elements are bolted. The tranny needs to get pulled out, but the stands are bolted to its bottom. I ended up hanging my frame from the main beam in my garage.
    And when everyone tells you there is a lot of stuff to get removed, be sure you understand that there is a LOT of stuff to be removed. And hopefully, replaced. One of the harder tasks was rerouting all the hoses and wires after they've been pushed aside during the teardown. Take lots of pictures going in.
    I also had trouble getting all the air out of the ABS/e-brake system after it had been disassembled. Think I finally have it right by now.
    It's not rocket science, but its not like changing spark plugs.

  4. #19
    Registered User 58058D's Avatar
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    In reply to RBEmmerson's Off Topic question, I have always done all the basic maintenance myself and for the early under warranty stuff, used my local dealer. I have done the crank case vent hose several times (with looonng needle nose pliers...) and many major items over time, as well. I have replacement parts for all the rubber in the intake tract but no place to work anymore so the mild burbling due to air/vacuum leakage is acceptable until we finish our home in Mexico and I have a place to totally strip the bike down and work on it. The only aftermarket stuff I have on it is the RhineWest cam gear and chip kit which requires the stock pipe. All else is just keeping up with things...
    Last edited by 58058D; 03-13-2017 at 11:26 PM.
    Jim Douglas '00 K1200RS >138,000 miles -- Black, 01/10/2000 to present
    Gone: White '09 K1300S sold @ 22k mi, Black '93 K1100RS traded @ 78k mi, Red '85 K100RS sold @ 44k mi, '06 Kaw 650R chrome yellow track bike sold http://www.seagullbb.com/

  5. #20

    Update

    Trans was overfull. With the bike on a level surface, on the center stand, cold, about 1/4 cup ran out. I warmed it up and drained out more. Did 150 miles of highway with no slip. Have went through the gears briskly with no slip. I'm going to ride it home in May. I may hit a rally on the way. I haven't been to one since the Nats in Missoula MT where I rode the the first K bikes. Don't remember the year! Wish me luck. Thanks to all.
    Ron
    2002 K1200RS, MOA# 17475
    2011 Zero S, 2001 Aprilia RST 1000, 1984 Yamaha FJ1100
    Past, BMW 1977 R100/7

  6. #21
    Registered User 58058D's Avatar
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    Sounds like it was last filled while on the side stand, rather than on the center stand. Doing it that way requires adding only the specified amount and then checking...on the center. HOWEVER.....I could be wrong on this, but...::
    Since the clutch is totally separated from the internals of the transmission, overfilling causing a slip only makes sense to me if fluid was forced out the clutch rod seal and onto the clutch.... If the clutch was contaminated by transmission/gear oil, I would expect the slipping to reappear when you least want it to. Too much fluid inside the transmission case would, I would think, be forced out a vent tube if one existed, or as noted, down the rod. There is no mechanism I am aware of which would cause slipping inside the transmission due to an overfill. So, good luck, I hope whatever you have done has taken care of the issue and that the clutch was not contaminated....
    Jim Douglas '00 K1200RS >138,000 miles -- Black, 01/10/2000 to present
    Gone: White '09 K1300S sold @ 22k mi, Black '93 K1100RS traded @ 78k mi, Red '85 K100RS sold @ 44k mi, '06 Kaw 650R chrome yellow track bike sold http://www.seagullbb.com/

  7. #22

    I made it!!

    Two up and loaded from Naples FL to N Virginia, then NW to WI. 2200 miles. I only used the cruise on fairly level roads so I could modulate the throttle better. I did some Interstate travel and more than kept up with traffic. I only noticed slippage a few times, usually abrupt or too much throttle, and I caught it fast. I did notice some weapage from the bell housing, so I think engine oil is getting on the clutch. Oil level went from top of the circle ( 3.4 Qts ) to just under the middle, could have used it or it ended up on the clutch? I'll find out when I or a shop tear into it this fall.
    Ron
    2002 K1200RS, MOA# 17475
    2011 Zero S, 2001 Aprilia RST 1000, 1984 Yamaha FJ1100
    Past, BMW 1977 R100/7

  8. #23
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    And while discussing the clutch slave cylinder problem, don't forget to mention that drilling a small (1.5-2mm) hole on the bottom side of the clutch slave cylinder recess at the back of the trans will allow any leaking fluid to drain down. This prevents the fluid from accumulating to where it can travel down the clutch pushrod and take out the seal, and leaves a tell-tale mark down the rear of the trans that tells you it's time for a new slave cylinder. Replacing that cylinder (around $150 IIRC) is a lot faster and less expensive than letting the fluid take out the trans seal and necessitate removal of the trans.

    Best,

    DG
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST 1984 R80 G/S-PD 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C 2010 K1300GT 2018 R1200GS
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKB View Post
    The clutch on my K1200RS slips a bit if I gas it in 3 or 4 and don't down shift. I'm careful not to do this, but I imagine it's also slipping some on the highway. I used to be a Tech and can tackle most mechanical issues. R&R the clutch looks to be a major job and probably requires special tools. Should I attempt it or leave it up to an experienced BMW shop? The bike is currently in FL, but will be in WI this summer. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
    did u change the oil - mr.KB? - if so i'l bet u put too much in - 3.5 or 3.7 w/ filter - max only. - start bike - let run till normal - put on side stand- let stand 1 hr or 2 - start up - does it puff smoke from exhaust ?
    if so TOO much oil & / or too thin for FLA (like i told ya). if clutch dont leak & did not slip before (ask last owner) - i'm sure he say no - but ask. my GT did this from a dealer in Orlando - TOO FREAKING MUCH OIL & TOO THIN.
    that was 10K miles ago - i changed oil (correct weight 4 fla & amount) - NO SLIP & NO OIL PUFF AT START (takes some to burn off) if u dont get it right - u will blow rear seal - like i told ya.
    i guess ur tec dont know BMW K bikes or know how to read a clymers - i did warn u this might happen - dealer charges $1800 +++ for a clutch
    if it puffs even a little on side stand - change the oil the right way - warm bike drain - 100% & filter (again) 20 / 50w in fla now - 3.5 qts- after 500 to 800 miles clutch should -have less slip. if u got it real wet - its toast.
    if u dont hot dog it - maybe u can save it - dont run if too much oil u can blow ft seals too & timing chain will rattle - now its $2500 +++ to fix - or its a 500 parts bike - ur choice.
    i dont meen to be harsh - but i told ya this might happen - even because last owner - put too much oil or too thin oil in. i see it all the time here in fla summer - even from bmw dealers - so called bmw tec's & a degree from a match book cover - id make sure 1st before u raise the frame (:

  10. #25

    Oil Amount

    royemello. Thanks for the reply. To answer you. I went for a 45 min ride in FL. I drained the oil, R&R the filter and gaskets. I put in 3 qts, rode about 30 min, put on the center stand, added more to just under the top of the circle this was a total 3.4 qts. The book calls for 3.5, I NEVER overfill oil, so I stopped before putting in the last 1/10 of a quart. The oil was Mobil 1, 20w50. I used the side stand all the way back, it never smoked. Like I said, the seam before the transmission shows weapage, not dripping, but wet enough to feel and collect road grime. Again, I'm betting on the rear main seal. I purchased a good used clutch and plate for the bike before I left. I should be set when I repair it. I may have to find special tools to R&R the three seals mentioned by others.
    Ron
    2002 K1200RS, MOA# 17475
    2011 Zero S, 2001 Aprilia RST 1000, 1984 Yamaha FJ1100
    Past, BMW 1977 R100/7

  11. #26
    Registered User lowndes's Avatar
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    Per 98lee back on post #4:

    "Pay extra special attention to the part about keeping the three parts of the clutch assembly orientated with the same rotational orientation on reassembly to maintain proper balance. That means marking the parts before disassembly."

    You might want to mark the clutch parts with a file notch or a center punch just to be sure. Paint and felt tip pen marks wipe right off, no prob. Take my word for it.

  12. #27
    Registered User 58058D's Avatar
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    And just to chime in again, if you 'used' that much oil over that distance and you noticed the misting/weeping of oil at the seem, odds are REALLY high it is the rear main seal. Normally we all recommend you smell the residue to confirm it is engine oil and not transmission oil, but.....your oil consumption with no indication of blue smoke (even with sidestand parking...) gives the indication it is a rear main seal leak. Though, since the trans was overfilled, do the sniff test just to be sure. Gear oil has a very different odor compared to engine oil. If it is engine oil, then you don't need to be concerned about the seal to the transmission, but, then again, you are in there and it is a Very inexpensive part.

    Doing the work myself many years ago, I saved approximately $1500 in labor. The job is 90% or so labor. I had to replace the clutch at $450 back then (2007?) and then the clutch slave (what failed for me) and seals on the transmission side. I never did the rear main --- knock wood it is still 'okay' ---

    Again, one cannot over emphasize the need to mark the clutch parts before disassembly and ensuring they are re-installed as they came out.
    Jim Douglas '00 K1200RS >138,000 miles -- Black, 01/10/2000 to present
    Gone: White '09 K1300S sold @ 22k mi, Black '93 K1100RS traded @ 78k mi, Red '85 K100RS sold @ 44k mi, '06 Kaw 650R chrome yellow track bike sold http://www.seagullbb.com/

  13. #28
    Registered User AntonLargiader's Avatar
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    ALWAYS replace the rear crank O-ring if the transmission is off. It's just crazy to skip this, even if you only did it a few years before. The older rear main seals need to be replaced with the spiral Teflon version, but after that they can stay.
    Anton Largiader 72724
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  14. #29
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    Not trying to hijack a thread, but I noticed some of you guys mentioning blue smoke at start-up. I know all about oil leaking past the rings on sidestanded (?) K100s, but I haven't seen that problem on any Ks made after the 80s. Thought they pinned the piston rings in place a few years after the initial K100 launch?
    Are you guys still seeing smoke on K11s and 12s?

  15. #30
    My K1200RS even if sitting on a side stand for a weekend, doesn't smoke a bit. I have been using Rotella 15w40 the last 6+ years she's been in my possession.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

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