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Thread: Some interesting insights

  1. #1
    Registered User REDC650GT's Avatar
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    Some interesting insights

    I found this to be fascinating and while even a returning male rider faces some of the issues described I often wonder why more women are not part of our local chapter. I guess BMW would like to know the answer as well. I did find a group here predominantly male but a few associated women riders and spouses. Our group is safety conscious and many members will gladly provide any support they can.
    Lastly was curious if some of the women members have experienced the sorts of patronizing, demeaning and crude behavior described?

    http://jezebel.com/the-women-of-chic...-bi-1790727131


    IMG_1196.JPG

  2. #2
    sMiling Voni's Avatar
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    Fascinating. And certainly different from anything I've encountered in my many miles. But I live in a very different world than the Bleeders.

    I learned to ride in the 70's and had never seen or heard of another woman rider. But, early on I met BMW riders. A stroke of luck for sure.
    I never felt anything but encouraged.

    This quote from the article hit me. "The heavy bikes, lack of proper instruction, and male tendency to leave women to their own devices can prove dangerous, though that can be mitigated by an open minded and accepting group of women who love motorcycles as much as they love new motorcyclists."

    Could be changed to this to fit my experience: The heavy bikes, lack of proper instruction, and OTHER BRAND RIDERS' tendency to leave women to their own devices can prove dangerous, though that can be mitigated by an open minded and accepting group of BMW RIDERS who love motorcycles as much as they love new motorcyclists.

    Voni
    sMiling
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  3. #3
    Adventurist nakwakto00's Avatar
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    My wife learned to ride in the early 1980's on a Honda 185. We rode primarily forest roads (gravel & dirt) and camped. We both gave up bikes when kids came into our lives. When kids left (about 25 years later), we went back into biking - again forest roads and camping. Bikes were bigger (size, horsepower and weight) but better (electric start, ABS, etc.). We've done some long distance tours on roads and gravel. She loves motorcycling but takes others (primarily men riders) with 'a grain of salt' - they're always posturing, crowing and promoting their "macho-ness." She proves her riding worth and mettle through her riding skills and humility. Always open to learning something new and offering a kind word or assistance when needed. When other men ride with her they see she is their equal in ability whether on the road or off-road.
    -don
    #161988
    "If you don't treat yourself right, no one else will."
    '06 R1200RT, '13 F800GS, and '16 R1200GSA (wife's)

  4. #4
    Registered User 186275's Avatar
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    That's why motorcycling is so great!

    I get to put on my helmet and ride away from the idiots!

    I have spent my entire life loving adventure in the great outdoors and mostly in the company of men. My understanding is this: When embarking on adventure you want to know that when the chips are down someone has your back. The last thing anyone wants to for a collapse of whinny when the going gets tough. So as a woman, I have to show my abilities to tag along. I carry my own stuff, sleep in my own tent and organize appropriately. I cannot say there have not been tensions. Enjoying accomplishments of adventure is a bonding experience sometimes, when you have the right mix of individuals. Other times, not so much! Isn't that why we do it?

    With that said, motorcycling is the same except for one major thing, it's maintenance. Somewhere between cars and bicycles really, and I am not uncomfortable with that. I realize my weakness in knowing exactly how to handle the heavy parts and intricacies of my motorcycle. I'm learning.

    The motorcycle shops that are available to me, however, are jerks. The mechanics were so condescending that I actually had my older brother go in to them and purchase a wrench etc. He had NO problems and they were even nice to him. We laughed about it as I took my business elsewhere. Thankfully, a male family friend, who is also very very knowledgable mechanically has been showing and teaching me. He suggested I go to another shop and ask to sit in and see if they could show me some basic stuff, like plugging a flat tire.
    Since I don't really know any of them, they sent me packing. I'm sure there's a key or code to get into their club but I don't have the time when I have other possibilities.

    So I sloooowly pick up what I need off the forum and at rally's. I wish a good maintenance seminar would take place at the SLC rally for women including looking at tool kits and how to properly use all the tools, hands on, please.

    I ride solo and have encountered other curious male motorcyclists. Some ask questions they don't want answers to as they walk off to talk to the other guys and once was asked if I ever rode my bike because it was clean. I like travelling in a clean car too, I think it goes faster and breaks down less, oh yeah, and it makes me feel good. Just like throwing my leg over the seat, putting on my helmet and gloves and riding away!
    Estee

  5. #5
    Estee,

    I applaud your determination to learn motorcycle maintenance. Most "real men" are more than happy to show a woman how to work on her bike. However, don't believe everything you are told, and get a second opinion . I love riding with guys for more than one reason, but they sure come in handy helping pick up your bike when you drop it .
    Gail Thorne
    2017 F700GS

  6. #6
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    I was introduced to the BMW world by H and tried to keep up since. A rider is a rider from my viewpoint, though I have seen and heard enough of the BS that some females have to deal with. Dumbass cavemen.

    I only had to pick H's up once in many many miles...after I assured her the steep rocky downhill rutted ride down to the zip line in Ponca was OK

    I don't do that anymore and it works for us She has prob helped me upright my bikes way more often when I do something gravity dislikes.

    I'll help if asked or at least offer help or tools...no over the shoulder constructive comments unless also asked for is something I gleaned years ago regardless of gender.

    I wish she were more involved here, but just isn't her thing .
    Steve Henson
    SABMWRA MOA Club#62's Flat Fixer/ current forum moderator
    It's not the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away-D.Dillon/G. Strait

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    I only had to pick H's up once in many many miles...after I assured her the steep rocky downhill rutted ride down to the zip line in Ponca was OK

    I don't do that anymore and it works for us

    I'll help if asked or at least offer help or tools...no over the shoulder constructive comments unless also asked for is something I gleaned years ago regardless of gender.
    "You've learned well grasshopper"
    Gail Thorne
    2017 F700GS

  8. #8
    lost in the USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDC650GT View Post
    ... Lastly was curious if some of the women members have experienced the sorts of patronizing, demeaning and crude behavior described?
    As my husband and I travel/ride, we meet some very interesting people, and some not so interesting. I have been a rider for over 45 years, and Don has been back riding for about the last 15 years. I have ridden solo, two-up, in a sidecar, with a sidecar, ridden with female friends, with club members on day rides or for weekend rallies, and long-distance. I have ridden with my then husband and young child (in the side car) around Australia in the 1990s. As a young single woman riding in London in the late 1970s I found myself to be an object of 'colonial' curiosity and an oddity but was treated with gentlemanly respect in general.

    Back home in Australia the treatment changed. In the mid-80s, as a solo rider, the male riders ignored me or saw me as 'available' - there was no middle ground where I could be seen just as a fellow-rider. To combat that I rode mainly with my female friends. In those days you could do evening classes in "Motorcycle Maintenance for Women", which I did. I found that mechanics was not my forte, although I did learn how to replace the springs on the rear brake shoes of my R80 g/s, which broke often. When Geoff was courting me (he was a motor mechanic by trade) I had the distinct pleasure of showing him how to remove the rear wheel and replace that spring on his 'new' second-hand g/s. (That might be why he married me.)

    I learned the hard way to not go on club rides on my own. There were women who rode with their husbands, as pillions or in the sidecar. A few rode solo. And, if you were married, you had to explain why your husband wasn't with you on the ride that day. As a widow or divorcee, you didn't ride unless you had a friend with you. The prejudice was interesting because it came mainly from the women. There were unwritten rules about "their men" and for some reason riding your own bike was not the way to win trust. So I stopped being a club person and instead focussed on family life, riding with Geoff, growing a son, working hard, paying the bills, burying Geoff, surviving my own serious illnesses and, eventually, finding a new life.

    These days, the one who wears the comments is Don. We get to a new place, dump our bike gear over the chairs feeling all hot and bothered, and Don goes up to the bar for cooling drinks. The bar person says something like, "So she rides on the back?" and he replies, "uh, no, she has her own bike." This is followed with "Yeah, but she rides behind you doesn't she" to which Don says something like, "well, no, her sense of direction is far better than mine, plus, she's been riding a lot longer than me."

    The other aspect of this type of comment that I find offensive is the way that people (probably non-riders) see being pillion as somehow the rightful place for the "little woman". The type of riding you do, is your choice. But you are riding - you're out there, in the air, doing something that is almost existential. If it makes you happy, do it. And do it with whomever you want, in whatever seat you want, on a bike that suits you (so long as its a bike... there you are, my prejudices are showing too).

    To be fair, there are lots of ways to ride. In general, guys seem unable to resist being competitive with one another (you call them 'pissing contests'?). I don't think a bunch of women do it the same way. I like to think we give each other space to ride however we want. (I would be interested to hear other opinions on this.) I finally get it that my way is solo or with one other person, usually my husband. It isn't on club runs, whether a day-ride or a weekend away. It might be with one or two other people, but rarely. I love getting to a 'meet', sharing stories and a meal and a drink, with like-minded people. But mainly I like long-distance and finding that new road - the one I haven't ridden down yet.

    And, these days, there is a lot more scope for belonging to a group of like-minded people. Online is wonderful for keeping up with your friends, no matter where you are. For example, through these threads. I am not lurking, stealing ideas. I am a paid-up member of the BMWMOA and the help and information I have read here is invaluable. I hope my posts are a small way of contributing to an extremely rich community.

    So, here I am, currently in Yuma, Arizona waiting for my foot to heal before Don and I travel on through Texas down new roads towards the Natchez Trace and then onto the Blue Ridge Parkway. Hopefully, that will happen in the next week or so. I can't wait to get back on the bike.
    Last edited by essspe; 02-19-2017 at 08:50 PM.
    Susan and Don
    2015 R1200 GS x 2

  9. #9
    Registered User REDC650GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by essspe View Post
    So, here I am, currently in Yuma, Arizona waiting for my foot to heal before Don and I travel on through Texas down new roads towards the Natchez Trace and then onto the Blue Ridge Parkway. Hopefully, that will happen in the next week or so. I can't wait to get back on the bike.
    Susan, thank you for responding with the insights into your experience. If you come through Dallas/Fort Worth, TX look us up. www. bmwdfw.org

    Chris

  10. #10
    lost in the USA
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    Invitation

    Quote Originally Posted by REDC650GT View Post
    ...If you come through Dallas/Fort Worth, TX look us up. www. bmwdfw.org

    Chris
    Hi Chris
    Many thanks for your kind invitation. I'll be in contact when I have a better idea of when we are likely to be in the area. Right now I'm waiting for medical clearance to move on, and that's likely to take at least another week.
    Susan
    Susan and Don
    2015 R1200 GS x 2

  11. #11
    Fissah! AKThumper's Avatar
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    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Come down to our tech day May 19,20,21. We call it a tech day due to the Airheads, but work gets done on
    every type of bike. The guys are amazing and best of all are willing to TEACH you. Change a tire? Plug a tire? Change the oil? Bleed the brakes? Doesn't matter, they will help you! You can bring or ship a tires here to get ready for the riding season.

    Not only that but we have tons of space inside or out and will feed you! And you will meet the most friendly and helpful group of men-3 of them hail from Alberta and are incredibly knowledgeable! I have learned so much over the last few years, from all of them, including my husband.

    Seriously come down for the weekend! Let me know and I will send more info.
    Annie






    Quote Originally Posted by 186275 View Post
    I get to put on my helmet and ride away from the idiots!

    I have spent my entire life loving adventure in the great outdoors and mostly in the company of men. My understanding is this: When embarking on adventure you want to know that when the chips are down someone has your back. The last thing anyone wants to for a collapse of whinny when the going gets tough. So as a woman, I have to show my abilities to tag along. I carry my own stuff, sleep in my own tent and organize appropriately. I cannot say there have not been tensions. Enjoying accomplishments of adventure is a bonding experience sometimes, when you have the right mix of individuals. Other times, not so much! Isn't that why we do it?

    With that said, motorcycling is the same except for one major thing, it's maintenance. Somewhere between cars and bicycles really, and I am not uncomfortable with that. I realize my weakness in knowing exactly how to handle the heavy parts and intricacies of my motorcycle. I'm learning.

    The motorcycle shops that are available to me, however, are jerks. The mechanics were so condescending that I actually had my older brother go in to them and purchase a wrench etc. He had NO problems and they were even nice to him. We laughed about it as I took my business elsewhere. Thankfully, a male family friend, who is also very very knowledgable mechanically has been showing and teaching me. He suggested I go to another shop and ask to sit in and see if they could show me some basic stuff, like plugging a flat tire.
    Since I don't really know any of them, they sent me packing. I'm sure there's a key or code to get into their club but I don't have the time when I have other possibilities.

    So I sloooowly pick up what I need off the forum and at rally's. I wish a good maintenance seminar would take place at the SLC rally for women including looking at tool kits and how to properly use all the tools, hands on, please.

    I ride solo and have encountered other curious male motorcyclists. Some ask questions they don't want answers to as they walk off to talk to the other guys and once was asked if I ever rode my bike because it was clean. I like travelling in a clean car too, I think it goes faster and breaks down less, oh yeah, and it makes me feel good. Just like throwing my leg over the seat, putting on my helmet and gloves and riding away!
    F650 GS 2007, F650GS 2011,F800GS 2014
    Team Pterodactyl, Dessert Division
    A Bit Wester of HQ

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