Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 61

Thread: Remapping when adding Akrapovic exhaust tip

  1. #1

    Remapping when adding Akrapovic exhaust tip

    Hello,

    I was thinking about putting on an akrapovic exhaust tip on my 2014 R1200RT, should the bike be remapped to match the performance of the new and different exhaust?

    Thanks

    Rudy

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by rcapone28 View Post
    Hello,

    I was thinking about putting on an akrapovic exhaust tip on my 2014 R1200RT, should the bike be remapped to match the performance of the new and different exhaust?

    Thanks

    Rudy
    Ask Akrapovic. Unlike some other brands BMW does not make it easy to "remap" the ECU. You can't just hook something up and fiddle with the map. A new chip might be available - again ask Akrapovic.

    My hunch is that the O2 sensor and ECU adaptation will take care of any issue but ask Akropovic. If they don't know or otherwise give waffling answers don't buy their product. It is one thing to bend pipes and weld mufflers. It is another thing to know exactly and precisely what that does to engine tuning.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  3. #3
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    691
    From the Revzilla Website info for R1200RTW Slip-on:
    No fuel remapping required, but for optimal performance RevZilla recommends use of a fuel controller
    Not sure that helps as you'd really be best to find someone who has tried the RTW both ways on the dyno to know for sure. Asking Akrapovic directly might help. For instance, it would be interesting to know if those dyno figures and chart they post are for a completely unmodified bike with no fuel enrichment/mapping or for one that has been optimized. It would also be interesting to know:
    a) if the figures are 100% stock with slip-on than what gains can be expected with tuning? Might be within the parameters of the stock ECU adapability. (I'd want a minimum of 2%-4% to consider tuning)
    b) if the figures are post-tuning then what were the figures without any tuning?
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - MOA Charter Club #097, BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: '14 R1200RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  4. #4
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    5,236
    Quote Originally Posted by rcapone28 View Post
    Hello,

    I was thinking about putting on an akrapovic exhaust tip on my 2014 R1200RT, should the bike be remapped to match the performance of the new and different exhaust?

    Thanks

    Rudy
    Excluding a few wiggles in the torque curves, it looks like you may gain a nominal 1-ft-lb gain from 2500 to 6000 rpm Is that going to be significant?
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  5. #5
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,MA
    Posts
    11,900
    They ones I have heard have a great sound. There is a pretty fair reduction in weight one stock as well.
    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
    Mod Squad
    2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

  6. #6
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    CENTEX USA
    Posts
    9,218
    Our R12S Hexhead came off the assembly line with one. Doubt much was done from the standard models with non Akropovic muffler.
    Steve Henson
    SABMWRA MOA Club#62's Flat Fixer/ current forum moderator
    It's not the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away-D.Dillon/G. Strait

  7. #7
    Thanks guys, I was looking to increase the sound, get better tone out the exhaust and reduce the weight. I'd hate to add anything only to have the ECU tell me otherwise when it comes to performance and reliability.
    I'll check with Aprapovic and BMW.

  8. #8
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    691
    Rudy, if those are your goals, than the Akrapovic will achieve them without anything required other than the 30~ minute install. Go for it and report your impressions back here. I'm still trying to justify spending the $$$ in my mind, as there is no shortage of places to spend my limited resources. ;-)

    Only reason I suggested contacting them was if you were looking for a power increase. They show a 3~ HP and TQ gain through the middle of the rev band which would be noticeable as a small but nice improvement. Anything much less than that you couldn't notice.

    My question was if that was achieved w/o any tuning. I've sent off an email to Akrapovic asking them exactly that and also if the figures are w/o tuning, what might be expected with tuning. Sometimes there is nothing to be gained and sometimes there is more. I'll report back here with their response if I receive one.

    Wouldn't bother asking BMW. It isn't their product so even if they did know most everything about it they might or might not be inclined to tell you. It is surprising sometimes how tight-lipped they can be for legal liability reasons, etc.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - MOA Charter Club #097, BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: '14 R1200RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  9. #9
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    5,962
    A pretty trusting guy to believe fitting this exhaust will make any difference at all as regards how your engine runs. Trusting of aftermarket hype, that is.

    Geez, you've got O2 sensors in your exhaust system (ahead of the muffler) constantly telling your fuel system how much to inject and you'd better believe there is going to be zero/zip/nada change in the quantity/quality of air injested to mix with this fuel ... but if there were, the O2 sensors would register that.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  10. #10
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    691
    Kent, the O2 sensors don't tell the your fuel system anything. They send a voltage signal to the ECU or some other computer within a system. That value associated with that signal is used by the computer, along with all the other signals/data it utilizes by the computer to identify what commands to send to the fuel injectors.

    The computer is trying to accomplish some pre-programed value within the fuel mapping to reach it's goal - an Air/Fuel ratio that is somewhere between Lambda (14.7:1 the Stoichiometric Ratio) the ideal for emissions/economy and the best "power ratio" (typically between 12.5-13.2). While the O2 sensor is a "narrow band" sensor, there is room within the entire system to adjust and adapt for many variables including putting a freer-flowing muffler. How much room? I don't know, and that is why I sent a message to Akrapovic.

    I'm not one who casually dismisses any and everything said by a company as false or only self-serving. That is an over-simplified view of the world. I own my own company and when I make a public statement it is supportable and, I stand behind it.
    There is real data collection available via a dyno and Akrapovic provide a dyno sheet showing a 3.5 HPm (R1200RTW rated at 125 HPm at the crank) gain.
    https://d1sfhav1wboke3.cloudfront.ne...db7be536b7.pdf

    Given that they have published this, they do have a responsibility to a provide product that actually generates those results or be sued for false advertising. Keep in mind that many of the top International motorcycle racers in the world use their products and while there are some areas where a race team will use a product that doesn't do much simply for advertising revenue, this does not occur in the areas of power production as each team is trying to find every single 0.1 HP and spending significant money doing so. Championship MotoGP Teams like Yamaha (Lorenzo and Rossi) have used Akrapovic exhaust and would only do so if they knew there was an advantage.

    My question to Akrapovic was simply did they get the 3.5 HP gain with or without tuning. I am not suggesting that they did, simply trying to determine what was required to get those figures on their dyno sheet.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - MOA Charter Club #097, BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: '14 R1200RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  11. #11
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    5,236
    Quote Originally Posted by AlanColes View Post
    Kent, the O2 sensors don't tell the your fuel system anything. They send a voltage signal to the ECU or some other computer within a system. That value associated with that signal is used by the computer, along with all the other signals/data it utilizes by the computer to identify what commands to send to the fuel injectors.

    The computer is trying to accomplish some pre-programed value within the fuel mapping to reach it's goal - an Air/Fuel ratio that is somewhere between Lambda (14.7:1 the Stoichiometric Ratio) the ideal for emissions/economy and the best "power ratio" (typically between 12.5-13.2). While the O2 sensor is a "narrow band" sensor, there is room within the entire system to adjust and adapt for many variables including putting a freer-flowing muffler. How much room? I don't know, and that is why I sent a message to Akrapovic.

    I'm not one who casually dismisses any and everything said by a company as false or only self-serving. That is an over-simplified view of the world. I own my own company and when I make a public statement it is supportable and, I stand behind it.
    There is real data collection available via a dyno and Akrapovic provide a dyno sheet showing a 3.5 HPm (R1200RTW rated at 125 HPm at the crank) gain.
    https://d1sfhav1wboke3.cloudfront.ne...db7be536b7.pdf

    Given that they have published this, they do have a responsibility to a provide product that actually generates those results or be sued for false advertising. Keep in mind that many of the top International motorcycle racers in the world use their products and while there are some areas where a race team will use a product that doesn't do much simply for advertising revenue, this does not occur in the areas of power production as each team is trying to find every single 0.1 HP and spending significant money doing so. Championship MotoGP Teams like Yamaha (Lorenzo and Rossi) have used Akrapovic exhaust and would only do so if they knew there was an advantage.

    My question to Akrapovic was simply did they get the 3.5 HP gain with or without tuning. I am not suggesting that they did, simply trying to determine what was required to get those figures on their dyno sheet.
    Why would the typical RT rider care about a HP gain that occurs beyond peak torque at 6600RPM?
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    2,290
    Exactly.

    More open exhausts typically can give only modest results at high rpm, sometimes at equal expense of mid range. The only reasons to fiddle with mufflers is sound and weight- the potential minor high rpm power gains don't justify the cost. And on a touring bike its questionable whether the weight reduction matters much- unlike a topcase, a muffler is pretty low

    My idea of an ideal machine
    1) Turns thought into velocity
    2) Makes no sound
    3) Is invisible on command

  13. #13
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    5,236
    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    2) Makes no sound
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  14. #14
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    691
    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Why would the typical RT rider care about a HP gain that occurs beyond peak torque at 6600RPM?
    Most shouldn't.

    But that isn't what one should look for anyway. What the typical RT rider likely cares most about is torque in the low-mid range where the bike spends most of it's cruising time, 2,500-4,500 rpm.

    That is precisely where the chart shows the Akrapovic providing it's biggest TQ gains, approximately 5.6% gain at 2,800 rpm and maintaining a healthy advantage up to about 4,200 rpm.

    No one is saying that there is an economic case to be made for these things, simply that they are of interest to some of us and that there are a few benefits to them. Those few benefits do come at a fairly hefty premium (primary reason I don't have one), but actually provide as much or more "real world" value than perhaps 50% of the frackels most BMW riders adorn their bikes with, but, to each their own.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - MOA Charter Club #097, BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: '14 R1200RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  15. #15
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    south of Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,272
    Maybe I'm misinterpreting the plot provided here, and I have not looked directly at the Akro site, but to my eye, the "smoother" of the plots is the torque, and the bumpier/sharper one is the horsepower.

    What that shows is almost NO torque increase until about 6200 rpm, but the HP increase from about 2600 to 4800 rpm is significant.

    If this interpretation is wrong, say so and I can accept that...

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •