ABS Pro Retro-fit

henzilla said:

I prefer neither... would think one would learn from their over driving and practice safer riding skills... riding skills and brains.

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On the street, I'll generally echo your sentiment, but I've crashed enough in the dirt to know that is usually doesn't hurt too much. Couple that with the desire to push one's limits, tiptoeing on the pinnacle of ambition, skills, traction and bike performance (ambition and bike performance usually outclass the other two), you sometimes push yourself into a situation where the only decision left to make is how you are going to crash. In that situation, it is preferable that the bash guard hits the tree as opposed to you hitting the tree followed by the bike making sure you really felt it. Dirt or street, low sides generally hurt less than high sides.

bobzeliff said:

I should also add, that if you are going too fast in a corner, and ABS Pro limits your braking so much (to avoid a low side fall per above) you may not be able to scrub off speed and may be forced of the road to the out side and crash badly. So maybe..just maybe...not having the $485 option you may be able to brake enough to avoid any crash, or worse case brake too hard and low side. Would you rather have a low side or crash off the road at higher speed???

In my dirt riding enduro days, I intentionally did many low side crashes to avoid crashing into trees, gullies, etc.

Just thinking!!!

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This was the same sort of argument used when basic ABS was introduced. For a very brief time it was possible for an experienced rider who was prepared for an extreme stop to outbrake an ABS system. In a real-world panic stop, modern ABS wins every time, and I see no reason this would not be true for the ABS Pro system. ABS does not disable braking, it modulates the pressure to maintain traction and steering control. When it comes to detecting tire slippage and braking at the traction limit, human reactions are simply too slow. If you really prefer to lay 'er down, you will still have the option of increasing your lean angle.

Older article explaining ABS Pro on the HP4 from webbikeworld.com:http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/2014/bmw-abs-pro.htm

rxcrider said:

On the street, I'll generally echo your sentiment, but I've crashed enough in the dirt to know that is usually doesn't hurt too much. Couple that with the desire to push one's limits, tiptoeing on the pinnacle of ambition, skills, traction and bike performance (ambition and bike performance usually outclass the other two), you sometimes push yourself into a situation where the only decision left to make is how you are going to crash. In that situation, it is preferable that the bash guard hits the tree as opposed to you hitting the tree followed by the bike making sure you really felt it. Dirt or street, low sides generally hurt less than high sides.

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Don't disagree, but older and wiser wins out more often these days. I do most my crazy off road moves on a pedal machine now...still hurts ,but damage to me and machine are typically less....and I did say typically. Endos hurt regardless

lkchris said:

Clearly so, but it's highly unlikely this product is offered if it's worthless.

In 2016 if a safety improvement exists, the climate of liability practically mandates that it be fielded as standard equipment. Especially on high end motorcycles like BMW, Ducati, and KTM--more affluent customers probably have better lawyers. Businesspersons likely conclude that when they offer safety systems they ought to collect some dollars for the pot of money set aside to pay claims.

I've paid to retrofit ASC to two BMWs and can't say I've ever felt it activate but still feel better having it. Not thinking of it as an excuse for not having skills and brains and for sure not dismissing the effort of the folks that developed it. I appreciate their efforts and they deserve to be paid for them.

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And if that works for you ,all the better. We have a range of older low tech bikes that we understand the limitations they have compared to whatever is state of the art until it isn't the following iteration. Upgrading is not an option, nor is not riding them because they lack the latest and greatest technology.

My statement wasn't saying the newest tech is not worthless...just that riding and safety shouldn't depend on having them. Basic riding skills and knowing one's curent limits should be in that big picture.

Our new KTM's both have Bosch ABS systems...a very simple to the eye system compared to our BMW's...though I know they are not.
I also believe if anyone is kicking their ABS in more often than in a panic stop...something else needs some adjusting...just sayin'.

Had the first iteration of ASC on a 07GSA, did not care for the rev limiter action it presented me when I had someone racing up my backside and I couldn't get out of the way quick enough rolling on the throttle.
There are places where that may be a good thing, this time it was not.

henzilla said:

Don't disagree, but older and wiser wins out more often these days. I do most my crazy off road moves on a pedal machine now...still hurts ,but damage to me and machine are typically less....and I did say typically. Endos hurt regardless

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I'm with you right until braaaap takes over, then wisdom takes a back seat and since I still can't hang with the guys who raced nationals and ISDE when I was in diapers, I refuse to believe that age is a factor. Sitting around a campfire with those guys is the only time you realize they are old as the medical horror stories start rolling.

At this point, I've gotten out of the dirt bike world with a bunch of really good mtn bike single track near by and a 3+ hour drive to ride a dual sport or enduro. The scary part is I find myself descending faster on the mtn bike than I ever did on an enduro and I'm wearing much less gear. Trees to the shoulder hurt more without the arm guard from my chest protector. I was also reminded a year ago that on a single track climb, if you use the bar ends, your knuckles may become the bark busters.

Getting back on topic, I doubt that ABS Pro will cause an issue where you can't slow down into a turn, but it may prevent you from tucking the front when you are trail braking too hard. Hopefully it comes with some adjustability / settings like the S1000RR so you can dial it to your taste or the conditions.

rxcrider said:

Hopefully it comes with some adjustability / settings like the S1000RR so you can dial it to your taste or the conditions.

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If your bike has Ride Mode Pro it will have a User Mode that allows for custom setting. My bike has it but I have not messed with the User Mode.
I would guess with the User Mode you can make changes to ABS Pro.

lkchris said:

There's precedent.

I've paid twice for software upgrades on R1200RTs to retrofit ASC, i.e. traction control. Think I needed to buy off switches in conjunction, too, but obviously the switches connected to wiring already there.

The "free" upgrades everyone thinks of are improvements in systems already on the bike, essentially warranty fixes. Adding a new feature is something different ... even if the wiring and a sensor are already there. It's apples/oranges.

I believe Bosch is the inventor/supplier of cornering ABS and they have plenty of expense tied up in developing and testing this product and the costs for the product need to be recovered--they're in business and to quote Navin Johnson, "it's a profit deal." It's quite the feeling of "entitlement" to think software should be free or cheap, and I'd suspect plenty of software developers might resent the implication.

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Is BMW in the business of selling motorcycles or software? It's a safety issue, it's braking and from my perspective I've already paid for it but it hasn't been switched on. That being said, the way I ride I doubt I'd ever use it anyway.

rtsteve said:

Is BMW in the business of selling motorcycles or software? It's a safety issue, it's braking and from my perspective I've already paid for it but it hasn't been switched on. That being said, the way I ride I doubt I'd ever use it anyway.

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Yep, it is either already install and just needs a "turn on command" or BMW will only down loads the new algorithm for your bike. Just $485 please.
My dealer told me it is not unusual for BMW to update software with in the normal service intervals....for free!

I'm not so sure installation of the new ABS Pro option is a safety issue, for two reasons.

1 As you point out most riders will never ride aggressively enough in corners to enter its domain of performance. My chicken strips are about .5 inch no where near enough to activate it....if you have NO chicken strips you might use it.

2 If you are in a corner going way to fast would you rather brake Normally (standard ABS) and low side or brake (with much soften ABS) and maybe crash on the out side of the corner? Based on my old dirt bike riding days I would much rather low side on pavement vs crashing into what ever the side of the road offers.

bobzeliff said:

I would much rather low side on pavement vs crashing into what ever the side of the road offers.

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If you low side in a curve you'll probably still hit what ever is at the side of the road.

rtsteve said:

That being said, the way I ride I doubt I'd ever use it anyway.

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You do not have to be riding at high speeds to benefit from ABS Pro.
If a deer jumps in front of you in a curve I would think ABS Pro would help even at moderate speeds.

Lee said:

You do not have to be riding at high speeds to benefit from ABS Pro.
If a deer jumps in front of you in a curve I would think ABS Pro would help even at moderate speeds.

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If you do the math, lean angles of 20 degrees or less have very little side vector component...so the ABS Pro mod algorithm would be either identical to the standard ABS or only very slightly less interventionist. My speculation (math based) is that the ABS pro mod algorithm does not kick in to around 30 degrees of lean and has most effect on lean angles of 40 degrees or more. i.e. well leaned over in the curve.

Sliding from a down side scrub off speed fast and also most often separate you from the bike. Injuries from the bike are often significant.
Note good but often much better than crashing in to the side of the road on the bike.