Canadian warranty - did you know?

In 2006 Engle Motors replaced the rear shocks that were leaking oil on our 2003 K1200RSs under warranty. They told me BMW would not cover worn shocks but they considered oil leaking from the shock as a failure and this is covered.
In 1988 both fork seals on Debbie's K75T failed in Alaska and the Fairbanks dealer replaced them under warranty.

Jim you need to push that the leaking oil is a failure, not a normal wear item like brake pads.

Good Luck

dbrick said:

This is interesting. In the US, the plaintiff always wants to bring all possible defendants into a civil proceeding.... Why is it different in Canada?

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Dave;

It's not; the standard procedure here is to join everyone who is directly or indirectly connected to the cause of action, for exactly the reason mentioned in your post, and because it's easier to drop defendants than to add them.

But in this case, the privity of contract is between James and his dealer, and assuming he isn't going to be represented by counsel, I thought his easiest course of action might be to just go after the dealer for selling a defective bike. Then he wouldn't have to get into more sophisticated legal concepts involving liability between a "manufacturer" and the ultimate customer, and it would also simplify service of documents. BMW Canada appears to be resident in Ontario, so he would need to get a separate court order to allow service of P.E.I. documents in another province. Also, joining BMW Canada might result in Toronto counsel being brought in, and who might then retain local counsel.

But it probably wouldn't hurt to sue both.

Still though, all opinions expressed have validity but ultimately, the dealer holds only one responsibility to the customer, his dealership contract. There remains little to no recourse in Canada for unsatisfied warranty obligations and they are: CAMVAP and litigation that CAMVAP would undertake for you.

This is vastly different than in the US where they have several laws outlining warranty by the OE. A great example is emission controls which are warranted for 5 years regardless of mileage and when your check engine light comes up, there should be no cost to the owner for diagnostics if the light is on due to an emission control. You may be asked to pay the diagnostic charge but if it is an emission control failure, you are entitled to a dealership credit if the dealership is honest. Good luck with that one.

Acting on behalf of a dealer and then the OE Tech rep for a major equipment manufacturer, I can say that if I felt the complaint was reasonable and valid, I would force the issue through something we called community service. The reality is, we built the cost of labour and parts portioned out to other claims.

In the past, I ate a lot of costs due to internal mistakes, mechanic's brain farts if you want to call them that and OE failures that were clearly not the customers fault. It was better to do that then have the customer accelerate his complaint to friends, forums or litigation.

There is one hidden rule that we used for warranty. If it touched the road, was in the mud/rain or otherwise a consumable part in the maintenance schedule, no warranty.

I should add something else; Whenever I have had an unhappy customer, either as an SP or the OE and they say "lawyer", my discussion ends at that point.

Way cheaper to defend than to be the plaintiff and from very first hand experience as the defendant, I can break the customer by one simple tactic used extensively in Canadian Law, the "recess". Costs me less than my insurance deductible to pay a lawyer to keep going into court and stating that "we are continuing to evaluate their expert opinion and our expert opinion has yet to return an opinion to us. We sincerely, your Honour, expect that opinion by the end of the year."

When I was young mechanic all I wanted to do was to be paid a fair wage for the work I did. Now that I'm at the age I am, this isn't what I expected.

jamesevans said:

I have failed fork seals on a 2016 R1200RS at 22000 Km

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James: Are you sure the seals have failed. Just a thought, but with my dirt bikes I've found (after years of swapping out seals) that the problem is often in fact dirt trapped in the seal that can be cleaned out, resulting in the seal sealing again. You can find various commercial products to Clean the seal (in place) but I typically use a piece of 35MM film (if you can find it nowadays!) or a playing card. Assuming the latter, I cut a hook into one end of the card and insert it between the seal and the fork and then rotate it around the seal. Since I started using this, I haven't had to replace a seal in 5 years.

Here's a post from a dirt bike forum discussing. http://www.thumpertalk.com/wiki/_/quick-fix-for-bleeding-fork-seals-r143

or a youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3Re9wpdNFg

I know you can find others if you search

While these examples show large amounts of dirt - in my experience you can't even see the dirt causing the leak in most cases (or maybe I'm pushing it into the fork, rather than pulling it out (doesn't matter - it still works).

I hope this is all you need to do ... good luck

Rinty said:

Dave;

It's not; the standard procedure here is to join everyone who is directly or indirectly connected to the cause of action, for exactly the reason mentioned in your post, and because it's easier to drop defendants than to add them.

But in this case, the privity of contract is between Dave and the dealer, and assuming he isn't going to be represented by counsel, I thought his easiest course of action might be to just go after the dealer for selling a defective bike. Then he wouldn't have to get into more sophisticated legal concepts involving liability between a "manufacturer" and the ultimate customer, and it would also simplify service of documents. BMW Canada appears to be resident in Ontario, so he would need to get a separate court order to allow service of P.E.I. documents in another province. Also, joining BMW Canada might result in Toronto counsel being brought in, and who might then retain local counsel.

But it probably wouldn't hurt to sue both.

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Thanks, Rinty. It's more like the US than I thought.

In California (and I think other states as well), no party in Small Claims Court may be represented by counsel; counsel may only appear by self-representation if counsel is personally or organizationally a party to the litigation. Under the usual US rules, BMW Canada could only appear by a non-attorney representative, presumably someone from BMW Canada's administration or claims department.

dbrick said:

In California (and I think other states as well), no party in Small Claims Court may be represented by counsel...

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Ah, that's not a bad idea. It must become like an arbitration hearing then.

Rinty said:

Ah, that's not a bad idea. It must become like an arbitration hearing then.

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I like it too.

Small Claims trials are held in courtrooms with a clerk and bailiff, and while informal in manner, the judge wears a robe and there's no meet-with-the-parties-individually as in arbitration. In California, a losing Plaintiff cannot appeal. However, a losing defendant can; the appeal is heard by another judge as a trial de novo.

Thanks everyone for your concern and good advice. I go to pick the bike up Tuesday and we'll see what happens. I'll let you know, and if necessary I will name the guilty.
At least I got the loan of a Ducati Multistrada for a few days. It's not a patch on the R1200RS, but it is a lot of fun!

A man who has been through bitter experiences and travelled far enjoys even his sufferings after a time
― Homer, The Odyssey

Well, guess what. I got there this morning to pick it up: two new seals, bike washed and polished, no charge!!!
Atlantic Motoplex did the right thing and once again they have a happy customer.
The new seals (or at least the dust covers) look different somehow. I don't recall a shiny spring around the old ones, but maybe it's imagination.
BTW, it was fun having the Ducati Multistrada for the weekend! BMW should take a good look at the dash (but don't copy the Ducati menu system for accessing the information, please. And don't copy the crippling seat!!)

"Yea, and if some god shall wreck me in the wine-dark deep,
even so I will endure…
For already have I suffered full much,
and much have I toiled in perils of waves and war.
Let this be added to the tale of those.”
― Homer, The Odyssey

Um, what does the warranty booklet say?

Isn't this called a manufacturers warranty?

See Post #10 in this thread.

dbrick said:

See Post #10 in this thread.

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I did. And I read the opening of the warranty statement where it says "BMW Motorrad Canada warrantees..."
So how does that say the dealer has the last word on the warranty and the dealer can back out?
From what I read there, The repair is handled by them, the warranty is BMW Motorrad Canada.

ClassicVW said:

I did. And I read the opening of the warranty statement where it says "BMW Motorrad Canada warrantees..."
So how does that say the dealer has the last word on the warranty and the dealer can back out?
From what I read there, The repair is handled by them, the warranty is BMW Motorrad Canada.

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Yup. I concluded the same in Post #14.

jamesevans said:

The new seals (or at least the dust covers) look different somehow. I don't recall a shiny spring around the old ones, but maybe it's imagination.

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Jim, good to hear warranty covered the repair.
We have a spring around the seal dust cover on our bikes.

Lee said:

Jim, good to hear warranty covered the repair.
We have a spring around the seal dust cover on our bikes.

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Hi Lee,
Maybe I just didn't look carefully before. Anyway, it's done. But I'm afraid that may have been the last ride this year - it was a lovely day yesterday but the old year is dying...

These things surely lie on the knees of the gods.

HOMER, The Odyssey

Good to hear this, James.

I can return the Sale of Goods textbook back to the library now.

And with the unusual fall weather, we may still be able to sneak a ride in before Christmas.

Rinty said:

Good to hear this, James.

I can return the Sale of Goods textbook back to the library now.

And with the unusual fall weather, we may still be able to sneak a ride in before Christmas.

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Thank you and everyone for your help and support.