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Thread: Canadian warranty - did you know?

  1. #1
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    Canadian warranty - did you know?

    BMW Canada tells me that new bike warranties in Canada are entirely the responsibility of the dealer. I have failed fork seals on a 2016 R1200RS at 22000 Km and my dealer tells me they are only covered for 7500km. Presumably that means you can expect to replace fork seals (not a trivial job) on any USD fork annually. Not why I bought a BMW.
    Presumably it also means that if your seals fail while you're travelling in Canada you're SOL.
    Who knew? I certainly didn't expect that sort of service on a "premium" brand.
    I'm disgusted. Be warned.

  2. #2
    rabid reader dbrick's Avatar
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    Did the bike come with a warranty document or booklet? What does it say?
    David Brick
    Santa Cruz CA
    2007 R1200R

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    Registered User Rinty's Avatar
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    Ouch! Those are electronic forks, so that could be expensive.

    James:

    I tried to Google BMW Canada's warranty terms but couldn't pull anything up.

    Typically, warranty terms are general in nature, with exclusions for certain things. I would take a very close look at the exclusions in your warranty booklet to see whether they specifically limit coverage on the suspension. If the exclusion is not clear, then a small claims judge will likely interpret the warranty in your favour under a legal rule called contra proferentum. The Small Claims Court limit in PEI is $8,000. There may be some free legal advisory clinics where you could get an opinion on the warranty. Also the P.E.I. Law Society has a referral service to lawyers that can give you a free half hour consultation:

    http://www.canlaw.com/law-society/la...l#.WCYGymczXyo

    Good luck.
    Rinty

    "When you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there."

  4. #4
    If indeed warranty responsibility rests entirely with the dealer, try another dealer.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  5. #5
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    About ten years ago, Canada had the opportunity to enact legislation similar to the US Right to Repair Act which included a number of warranty statements.

    We didn't enact any such legislation and currently in Canada, warranty is strictly defined as failure in workmanship or material. Having been on the dealer and OE side of both, we have an Ad Hoc warranty system in Canada which effectively puts the onus on the owner to prove warranty.

    As it stands, the dealer provides warranty for the customer as a goodwill gesture in keeping with their dealership obligations. The dealer must receive clear permission from the OE to conduct any repairs under warranty and still, the dealer may be on the hook for parts/labour costs for several months while the claim is approved.

    You can be denied warranty because you put an aftermarket device on your vehicle. There is currently a case in ON where a truck owner put an aftermarket sound system in his truck and subsequently, the transmission failed. He was denied warranty and is now fighting to prove the radio installation is not the cause of the transmission failure.

    There are several OE that do not warranty their vehicles in Canada and the dealer must build an cost expectation for goodwill in the new price. In my city, there is an OE that for several years, did not provide any warranty on their equipment, some of which exceeded $300K new. During that time, the steering failed on one of their machines and the tractor drove over a car, killing all the occupants and severely hurting the operator. The cost to settle was beyond the scope of the insurance companies involved and ultimately, the OE was forced to re-org the entire business and now they offer an Ad Hoc warranty.

    There are a number of reasons why Canadian Dealers do not want you to buy US-side vehicles and bring them here. Warranty is one reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesevans View Post
    BMW Canada tells me that new bike warranties in Canada are entirely the responsibility of the dealer. I have failed fork seals on a 2016 R1200RS at 22000 Km and my dealer tells me they are only covered for 7500km.
    The dealer is responsible for performing warranty work. The manufacturer is responsible for the warranty. Further to Mr. Brick's comment, what does your owners manual or warranty book say? If the fork seals aren't referred to specifically, then they should be covered - all else being equal. If your dealer still pushes back, here's something which may be helpful....

    http://www.consumerhandbook.ca/en/to...ces/warranties

  7. #7
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    The dealer is responsible for performing warranty work. The manufacturer is responsible for the warranty. Further to Mr. Brick's comment, what does your owners manual or warranty book say? If the fork seals aren't referred to specifically, then they should be covered - all else being equal. If your dealer still pushes back, here's something which may be helpful....

    http://www.consumerhandbook.ca/en/to...ces/warranties
    I don't want to make a mess of the information being presented but in Canada, you do have CAMVAP, if you can afford it.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case, my baby, fast, fun)
    3xR90/6, two just sold, one for a sidecar. 1983 K100RS (Cafe now)
    Very Rough R80RT. 1987 K1100RS (freaking hooped I think)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinty View Post
    Ouch! Those are electronic forks, so that could be expensive.

    James:

    I tried to Google BMW Canada's warranty terms but couldn't pull anything up.

    Typically, warranty terms are general in nature, with exclusions for certain things. I would take a very close look at the exclusions in your warranty booklet to see whether they specifically limit coverage on the suspension. If the exclusion is not clear, then a small claims judge will likely interpret the warranty in your favour under a legal rule called contra proferentum. The Small Claims Court limit in PEI is $8,000. There may be some free legal advisory clinics where you could get an opinion on the warranty. Also the P.E.I. Law Society has a referral service to lawyers that can give you a free half hour consultation:

    http://www.canlaw.com/law-society/la...l#.WCYGymczXyo

    Good luck.
    Thanks Rinty. I never got a warranty booklet - I looked at the BMW North America warranty and foolishly assumed it applied. I've used Small Claims Court before - if I don't get satisfaction it's well worth a go.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    The dealer is responsible for performing warranty work. The manufacturer is responsible for the warranty. Further to Mr. Brick's comment, what does your owners manual or warranty book say? If the fork seals aren't referred to specifically, then they should be covered - all else being equal. If your dealer still pushes back, here's something which may be helpful....

    http://www.consumerhandbook.ca/en/to...ces/warranties
    Thank you. See my reply to Rinty below.

  10. #10
    Registered User Rinty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinty View Post
    I tried to Google BMW Canada's warranty terms but couldn't pull anything up.
    Ah, found it; it was way down at the bottom:

    http://www.blackfootonline.com/updat...ranty_0109.pdf

    So it's a 36 month warranty for defects in materials or workmanship for unlimited kilometres, with an exclusion for "shocks and springs" after 7,500 km.

    So is a fork seal a "shock" or a "spring"? It seems to me that the shock is inside the front suspension, a different part of which, failed.
    Rinty

    "When you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post
    About ten years ago, Canada had the opportunity to enact legislation similar to the US Right to Repair Act which included a number of warranty statements.

    We didn't enact any such legislation and currently in Canada, warranty is strictly defined as failure in workmanship or material. Having been on the dealer and OE side of both, we have an Ad Hoc warranty system in Canada which effectively puts the onus on the owner to prove warranty.

    As it stands, the dealer provides warranty for the customer as a goodwill gesture in keeping with their dealership obligations. The dealer must receive clear permission from the OE to conduct any repairs under warranty and still, the dealer may be on the hook for parts/labour costs for several months while the claim is approved.

    You can be denied warranty because you put an aftermarket device on your vehicle. There is currently a case in ON where a truck owner put an aftermarket sound system in his truck and subsequently, the transmission failed. He was denied warranty and is now fighting to prove the radio installation is not the cause of the transmission failure.

    There are several OE that do not warranty their vehicles in Canada and the dealer must build an cost expectation for goodwill in the new price. In my city, there is an OE that for several years, did not provide any warranty on their equipment, some of which exceeded $300K new. During that time, the steering failed on one of their machines and the tractor drove over a car, killing all the occupants and severely hurting the operator. The cost to settle was beyond the scope of the insurance companies involved and ultimately, the OE was forced to re-org the entire business and now they offer an Ad Hoc warranty.

    There are a number of reasons why Canadian Dealers do not want you to buy US-side vehicles and bring them here. Warranty is one reason.
    Wow. ****ty, isn't it?

  12. #12
    Registered User Rinty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesevans View Post
    Thanks Rinty. I never got a warranty booklet - I looked at the BMW North America warranty and foolishly assumed it applied. I've used Small Claims Court before - if I don't get satisfaction it's well worth a go.
    If you file, you could also plead, in the alternative, that there has been a breach of an implied statutory warranty of reasonable fitness for the purpose, under section 16 (a) of the P.E.I. Sale of Goods Act. There is an exclusion in the subsection for goods sold under their "patent or other trade name", and I don't know how this has been interpreted or what it means, but another attorney I spoke to, who is quite gifted, thought that whatever it means, it would be very narrowly interpreted.

    In any event, the small claims judges here tend to be non technical in their analyses, and I suspect that to be the case in your province as well.

    You can pull up the Sale of Goods Act on a Google search, or just go to the CanLII site.

    Good luck.
    Rinty

    "When you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinty View Post
    In any event, the small claims judges here tend to be non technical in their analyses, and I suspect that to be the case in your province as well.
    To my mind a front fork is not a "shock". Were one to provide illustrations of each item to the small claims court judge, you might be pleasantly surprised at the verdict. But that would be my last resort - I'd write a nice letter to BMW Canada requesting a fix before I went to court.

    Segue: Is the warranty in the US worded the same (excepting metric measurement)?

  14. #14
    rabid reader dbrick's Avatar
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    Glad to see there is an actual warranty, and that it is documented. All in all, this is pretty much the same as a US warranty, including that the terms are dictated by the importer, and the dealer does the work.

    From my perspective (I'm a retired attorney who has sat pro tem many times in Small Claims Court here in California), "shocks and springs" would not encompass fork seals. OTOH, BMW Canada might assert that the seals are "normal wear and tear" items and therefore not covered, particularly if the seals are specified to be replaced on a regular basis.

    At least in the US system, vagueness in warranty language would be interpreted against the party who drafted the language.
    David Brick
    Santa Cruz CA
    2007 R1200R

  15. #15
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrick View Post

    At least in the US system, vagueness in warranty language would be interpreted against the party who drafted the language.
    Not a lawyer, but I believe this is true in Canadian contract law as well.

    I would think the seals are normal wear items, but that's just me.
    Ed
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