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Thread: Does BMW Care about our safety

  1. #1

    Does BMW Care about our safety

    GM knew for ten years that defective ignition switches were killing people in GM vehicles.
    DUE TO GM'S COVER UP 124 PEOPLE CONFIRMED DEAD.

    GM killed 124 people for $$$$$ Is this acceptable: NO!!!!

    I have a BMW K1300GT that was recalled for a minor problem from day one: ENGINE STALLING COULD RESULT IN VEHICLE CRASH. The remedy was that BMW will notify owners and repair the motorcycle free of charge. I was not notified, and the motorcycle has not been repaired.

    BMW has not been abe to correct the problem in 4 attempts. For the last attempted repair, I had to complain for 6 months. Now, BMW has had enough. BMW doesn't want to hear from me.

    BMW writes "we sympathize with your situation...we decline further participation and cannot offer assistance in this case." Case closed. Crash...Die

    Thank you BMW for sympathizing with my situation.

    Does this sound similar to GM? I can't understand how good people working for companies like GM and BMW can knowingly kill and hurt another human being for $$$$$$
    We deserve better. We are better.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by angela00 View Post
    The remedy was that BMW will notify owners and repair the motorcycle free of charge. I was not notified, and the motorcycle has not been repaired.

    BMW has not been abe to correct the problem in 4 attempts. For the last attempted repair, I had to complain for 6 months. Now, BMW has had enough. BMW doesn't want to hear from me.
    So was your bike recalled or not? How did the four service attempts come about? Is BMW saying your problems are not related to the recall?

    These are material questions because if BMW was obligated to recall and fix your motorcycle and did not do so then you have grounds to complain to the Federal Government in the form of the NHTSB which governs recalls in the U.S.

    You might also have recourse under the "Lemon Law" if such law covers motorcycles in your state and if your specific circumstances fall under that law.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  3. #3
    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    First, welcome to the forum! It's certainly disheartening to have that be your first post. But getting the bike fixed would seem to be the top priority.

    Is this the recall you were referencing?

    http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread....l=1#post523653

    I agree with Paul...you say you were not notified but yet there were four attempts to fix the problem. If they applied the approved fix, then it would seem that the bike wouldn't stall anymore as described. Is that still happening? I would certainly continue to work this through the contacts you and as well as the phone number given in the link above.
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  4. #4
    The good news is that a friend of mine, Lee Woodring, has volunteered to be our Consumer Liaison.

    Can anyone help this fellow reach Lee?

    Ian
    Go soothingly through the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon.
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  5. #5
    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    Ian -

    I don't see Lee's name on the contact list for the MOA. But, this page has a link at the bottom to the Consumer Liaison. Clicking this appears to open up an email page which would then let someone send an email to the liaison. Certainly, a phone call to the home office would also be a way to find a way to contact him.

    http://www.bmwmoa.org/?page=waypoints
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  6. #6
    MOA Life Member t2moyer's Avatar
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    consumerliaison@bmwmoa.org. Several people from the MOA have already reached out to BMW on this specific bike. I don't know the particulars of the issue, but I do know we have tried to intercede.
    Ted Moyer
    '12 DL650, '06 R1200RT, '78 R100RS Motosport, '72 XL250, '83 RZ350, '94 KLX650, '80 GS850G

  7. #7
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angela00 View Post

    I have a BMW K1300GT that was recalled for a minor problem from day one: ENGINE STALLING COULD RESULT IN VEHICLE CRASH. The remedy was that BMW will notify owners and repair the motorcycle free of charge. I was not notified, and the motorcycle has not been repaired.
    I'm curious on a number of things-
    Year-
    Was the bike purchased new by you?
    If you were not notified, how did you get to know about the recall?
    Has your bike been stalling?


    BMW has not been abe to correct the problem in 4 attempts. For the last attempted repair, I had to complain for 6 months. Now, BMW has had enough. BMW doesn't want to hear from me.
    There is a fairly good chance there was an effort. I would be interested in hearing about the part that is thought to be the cause of the stalling.

    BMW writes "we sympathize with your situation...we decline further participation and cannot offer assistance in this case." Case closed. Crash...Die
    Rather rare a manufacturer tells you to "Crash...Die".

    Thank you BMW for sympathizing with my situation.

    Does this sound similar to GM? I can't understand how good people working for companies like GM and BMW can knowingly kill and hurt another human being for $$$$$$
    We deserve better. We are better.
    Your filling in some info will no doubt help us (me) understand what is actually going with your problem.

    Welcome to the forum! Looking forward to your reply.

    Gary
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
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  8. #8
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
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    I just took a look through the NHTSA Recall database and went back to 2008. The only recalls involving the K1300GT involve leaking fuel (which could end up soaking your leg), and a wheel issue. You might want to take a look at the recall database through the VIN lookup and find the wording of the recall, print it out, and show it to a dealer, and also call BMW NA Customer Service. If the dealer is blowing you off that's one thing...if BMW NA is blowing you off, that's a big problem for them.

    Here' the Link the NHTSA VIN Recall: https://vinrcl.safercar.gov/vin/

    Also, you could take a look at BMW Motorrad's tool for recall/campaign lookups: http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/...html&notrack=1

    I'm one of the Ombudsmen for the BMW Car Club of America, but the Consumer Liaison for BMW MOA should get involved in this one.
    John Gamel
    2015 Ebony Metallic R1200RT
    BMW CCA 2006 - Present; BMW MOA 2009-Present
    Walt Kelly: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

  9. #9

    Response to queries about BMW SAFETY

    I want to thank the MOA members that took the time to read my message and ask questions. I have copied a letter I sent to BMW that I believe will answer your questions. I have provided a more detailed document with documentation of BMW's efforts to correct the problem to the leadership of BMW MOA. They have had conversations with BMW with the same results that I have had - Case Closed.

    I have written to NHTSA, Attorney Generals in NJ and WV, WV senators. My complaints were passed on to MHTSA whose response was complaint noted and await more complaints before the agency can act.

    BMW response to my letter writing campaign has been the following: no open recalls for VIN:ZV96878 (because BMW tried to fix per recall); 7 year old bike with 40k miles, a history of neglect and lack of use (the bike is in perfect condition except for the stalling); complaint of stalling was not duplicated (sorry, the dealer for the 4th attempt was told what to do without duplicating stalling); bike out of warranty period (true, but stalling started on day one and continues today).

    One last comment, BMW didn't write: CRASH and DIE. That is my interpretation to BMW's high handed attitude to my request to fix a dangerous fault in a vehicle they manufactured and sold to me. It is no fun having the motor stop while driving in stop and go traffic. I'm lucky that I haven't been hit from behind.

    Once again thank you for taking interest in my situation, I hope that no one is treated in a similar fashion by BMW.






    Recalled 2009 BMW K1300 GT dated 12/4/2009 Recall 09V471000: Engine stalling could result in vehicle crash. Remedy: BMW will notify owners and repair the motorcycle free of charge.

    Summary:e
    I purchased the 2009 BMW K1300 GT (WB10539059ZV96878) from BMW of Oklahoma in 2010. The bike was originally used as demonstrator by the dealer. When I purchased the bike, I was told that the bike was in perfect condition. However, I would not have purchased the bike with a stalling recall that BMW of Oklahoma was aware of but neglected to tell me.
    I only use the bike for extended trips in US or Canada. The bike is not used as daily driver or for short trips. The bike has no problems at speeds over about 15 miles per hour. Driving under 15 miles per hour in city traffic the the engine has a tendency to stop. Stalls happen intermittently and the engine starts right up.
    After 4 attempts to correct a recall problem, BMW sent me an e-mail dated July 20,2016 stating "Although we empathize with your situation, due to the current age and mileage of the motorcycle, we decline further participation and cannot offer assistance in this case." (Attachment 1) Please this is a recall: "Engine stalling could result in vehicle crash." Repair the motorcycle.

    Details:
    Engine Stalling attempted repairs:
    1. 1/23/2010 BMW of Oklahoma. Problem: Engine idle unsteady. Repair: Programming control unit of engine management system (along with testing software). (Attachment 2)
    2. 07/29/2011 Bob's BMW MD. Problem: DME/BMS/ Motronik control unit Software bug/ internal device fault. Programming control unit of engine management system (along with testing software). ( Attachment 3)
    3. 06/22/2013 Eurosport BMW Motorcycle of Asheville, NC. Same as No. 1. (Attachment 4)

    I didn't drive the bike in 2014.

    In 2015, traveled to Montreal, Canada with no problems until I reached traffic. The bike started stalling in Montreal traffic. On 07/08/2015, I took the bike to the Montreal BMW dealer. Recommended replacing both the stepper (idle) motor and airbox. (Attachment 5) I asked the Service Manager if he could order the parts and make the repair the next day. He told me that he didn't want to try because he didn't think that BMW's repair would resolve the problem. On my way home, I stopped at Velocity Cycle, BMW dealer Mechanicsburg, Pa, the same repair recommendation as the Montreal dealer.

    On my return, I researched the the stalling problem and found the recall notice. Contacted BMW's customer service. I detailed the the above information. I kept explaining that the stalling had started on day one and that three BMW attempted repairs had not worked. BMW's response was that the bike was out of warranty - get lost. After months of letters, calls, and aggravation, they agreed to pick up the bike for repair.

    On 4/27/2016, the bike was taken to Battley Cycle, MD. The service manager called me for information on the stalling problem. I explained that the bike stalled at slow speeds under about 15 miles per hour and started immediately after and that the stalling was intermitent. He told me that he was surprised that BMW gave specific instructions on what to do and had not asked him to verify the stalling before the repairs. That's BMW's policy when BMW is paying for a repair.

    The following work was done: intake muffler, idle system, air filter, install airbox and actuator, fuel system flush, and flush fuel tank. (Attachment 6) Immediately after completion of the repairs, I was asked to retrieve the bike rather than giving the bike extensive test rides to simulate the stalling conditions. I was in no rush for return of the bike. I just wanted a functioning/safe bike. I had to spend one whole day traveling to the dealer and back home to pick up the bike.

    I thought that the bike would finally function properly. I spent over $800 dollars on new battery, clutch fluid change, oil change, and new tires.

    On June 12, I took a road trip from my home in Davis, WV to Maine. No problems while driving on highways and back roads. I spend a few days in Portland, Maine. In traffic while driving under 15 miles per hour, the bike stalled two times. I called Mark Pechko, BMW representative, to inform him that the repair was not successful. He asked me to go to a BMW dealer to see if there were any error messages in the computer. I expressed my displeasure at having to go to another dealer. Since I purchased this bike, I have spent over two weeks of my life in BMW dealerships waiting on warranty work.

    I stopped at Velocity Cycle in PA. The error message in the computer was: Fuel Pump. The Service Manager asked me to take the bike for a 5 to 10 mile test drive to see if the fuel pump was faulty. No error when I return. Another half day wasted in a BMW dealership. Dealer indicated the stalling might be caused by the idle control valve. I told him that it had just been replaced.

    I contacted Mark Pechko to inform him that after the recent repair the bike was still not working correctly. His e-mail response of July 20, 2016 was that my" latest complain has been documented." In addition, he stated that "due to the current age and mileage of the motorcycle, we decline further participation and cannot offer assistance in this case."


    Recap:

    BMW's recall dated 12/4/2009 is very specific: 1. stalling could result in crash - the bike is dangerous; 2. BMW will notify owners - I was never notified. However, I have responded to numerous recalls notices; BMW will repair the motorcycle free of charge - BMW has not repaired the bike to date. Since 1/23/2010, the original owner, BMW dealer, made the first attempt to repair the stalling problem, I have followed with 3 different BMW dealers attempts to repair the motorcycle with no success. The bike stalls today as it did on the day it BMW sold me the motorcycle.

    The BMW Management team has to comply with the recall. The bike stalls. The engine ceases to function. I have repeated and repeated that the stall is under 15 miles per hour and intermittent. If Battley Cycle had driven the bike in traffic under 15 miles an hour for an extended period of time, the bike would have stalled for them as it did for me in Portland after the latest attempt to repair the bike. But in BMW fashion, the dealer performed warranty work on the bike and test drove it around the block and assumed that it was repaired. Sorry, BMW returns a bike that can still cause a crash because it is still not working correctly. I'm a 69 years old with knee replacements. I can't afford a crash caused by incompetent management and engineering. A recall was issued in 2009 and BMW has not been able/willing in the past 6 years to correct the problem after 4 attempts.

    Now, BMW is washing their hand of me - "we (BMW) decline further participation and cannot offer assistance in this case." Please, I bought an expensive vehicle from BMW that should function properly. BMW manufactured a vehicle with a design problem: "engine stalls and could result in vehicle crash" BMW's words not mine. Fix the motorcycle.

    Does BMW care if their customers are injured or killed while driving faulty and recalled BMW vehicles that BMW is not capable and willing to repair? I'm in shock that in this day a manufacturer can behave in this outrageous manner.

  10. #10
    At this stage I would take the bike back to the last dealer that "fixed" it and trade it in on whatever that dealer had that struck my fancy. Or part it out. Or take it to the crusher.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  11. #11

    Why did Ben Franklin say "We must all hang together,...

    Why did Ben Franklin say "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately"?


    There is strength in numbers. If the founders were not united in their rebellion, England would surely execute them one by one for treason. However, if they were united, it would be harder to isolate and punish them. This can tie to situations universally.

    Paul I am surprised with your response to this gentleman's problem with BMW, especially with your stature in the BMW community. You know that saying "there for the grace of god go I". Well this could be any one of us and we should all stick together and support the guy. BMW should either fix the bike or buy it back, another words, make him whole again. Period. That is what anyone of us would want if we had a problem with a bike that could not be fixed. We should start a letter writing campaign to support him to let BMW know we all want to be treated fairly and that we will all stick together.

    Please everyone pipe in here and support this guy, like I said this could be one of us someday. These bikes are complicated and sometimes they malfunction but we should not have to part out the bike or trash it at our own loss.

    Bill McGovern

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 67916 View Post
    Paul I am surprised with your response to this gentleman's problem with BMW, especially with your stature in the BMW community. You know that saying "there for the grace of god go I".
    It is my understanding that this has been going on for some time. And that BMW MOA officials and or representatives have tried to intercede with BMW to no avail. See post # 6. I also understand that even though the problem is reported to have been there since day-one, the bike is now well out of warranty. And it appears that BMW has had numerous opportunities to do something and have tried, but despite all of the history, finally said "your problem". Sometimes life is just too short for all the drama.

    So my advice is cut your losses and get on with life with a bike that makes you happy and doesn't make you afraid that you could die. If this is too harsh, I am sorry, but I just gave a bike away, free, because it made me unhappy.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  13. #13
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
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    PM sent.
    John Gamel
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  14. #14
    MOA Life Member t2moyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    It is my understanding that this has been going on for some time. And that BMW MOA officials and or representatives have tried to intercede with BMW to no avail. See post # 6. I also understand that even though the problem is reported to have been there since day-one, the bike is now well out of warranty. And it appears that BMW has had numerous opportunities to do something and have tried, but despite all of the history, finally said "your problem". Sometimes life is just too short for all the drama.

    So my advice is cut your losses and get on with life with a bike that makes you happy and doesn't make you afraid that you could die. If this is too harsh, I am sorry, but I just gave a bike away, free, because it made me unhappy.
    I think your motorcycles are the root of your unhappiness. I can be in Texas with a trailer if you want to be happy again!
    Ted Moyer
    '12 DL650, '06 R1200RT, '78 R100RS Motosport, '72 XL250, '83 RZ350, '94 KLX650, '80 GS850G

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by t2moyer View Post
    I think your motorcycles are the root of your unhappiness. I can be in Texas with a trailer if you want to be happy again!
    Thanks, Ted. I'll think on that.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

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