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Thread: Oil filter won't release

  1. #46
    i should be out riding! wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 141987 View Post
    Taking a look at the parts fiche for my bike (a 2011 R1200GS) on Max BMW's website, I don't think the nipple is a separate part, (from what I can glean from looking at the diagram...but I could be wrong).
    i agree....was hoping though....i have a call into a VERY experienced BMW Master Mechanic (worked for Reg Pridmore for eons) asking if he has seen this problem and IF, just if, the nipple is removable....stand by...monday is tough day to get a hold of any motorcycle mechanics...

    btw, i am not at all slighting the vast experience of the expert help her....just looking to see if someone else has seen this....
    ~wyman~


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  2. #47
    Registered User AHD43's Avatar
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    When I responded I somehow missed the spinning on the nipple part ( that sounded like locker room talk ) so disregard my suggestion and good luck.

    Marty
    "Whether you think you can...or you think you can't -- you're right"

  3. #48
    Watch This!!! junkjohn's Avatar
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    If the ring in the center with the threads is slipping in the plate with the holes, could you just hit it with a mig welder a couple quick spots. And give it a twist?
    John Simonds
    2017 R 1200 GS Adventure
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  4. #49
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    The "ring in the center" is part of the plate - look at a new filter. Paul's suggestion is about the only practical one at this point. It might be time to take it to a professional mechanic. This isn't the first time something like this has happened, and they have tools/knowledge to deal with it.
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders
    '12 R1200R - I love this bike!

  5. #50
    i should be out riding! wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    The "ring in the center" is part of the plate - look at a new filter. Paul's suggestion is about the only practical one at this point. It might be time to take it to a professional mechanic. This isn't the first time something like this has happened, and they have tools/knowledge to deal with it.
    Don,

    my very good friend Ken Green (former AMA roadracer and Reg Pridmore's sidecar passenger AND very experienced motorcycle mechanic) worked with a chap named Scott McKay (former Reg Pridmore, RPM Motorcycles Master Mechanic) who is now the General Manager at Sierra BMW....his response to this dilemma was "Damifino. Haven't ever had anybody do that one. I bet it (the nipple) is replaceable, The real question is if it is available. I will check when get to work on Tuesday & let you know..." bear in mind that Scott has many, many years as a Master Mechanic and has worked all over SoCal....

    this was in response to my query about the nipple being "removable" in a text to Ken....

    still standing by for Scott's valued reply...

    i, for one, am hoping for a simple repair of removing the nipple, pulling the offending oil filter base, reinstalling the nipple and moving on....bar that, i would carefully cut the base away from the nipple, possibly leaving a small "scar" on the nipple which would not IMO effect the oil filter's performance....

    just my 2 cents worth...

    wyman

    edit, added info....just off of the phone with Ted Porter (BeemerShop)...he says..."in 37 years I have never seen this happen..."....

    the plot thickens...

    w
    Last edited by wyman.winn; 10-11-2016 at 05:53 PM. Reason: additional info
    ~wyman~


    2013 BMW R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic

  6. #51
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    wyman,

    It's also hard to understand how this could happen on a filter that was installed by hand, hence "hand tight"... I'm not strong enough to cross-thread steel to steel what looks like about 1/2" pipe thread, much less strip out the threads. The problem removing the nipple is I'm certain BMW used something to lock it into the block, and if the something was red-Loctite, you're looking at in excess of 550 degrees F to unlock it (and it has to be removed while still at that temperature.) I have no idea how anyone could do that. Trying to remove the nipple without getting the thread-locker to release could very well result in threads stripped out of the block. That then puts one into trying to do a TimeSert or similar in a very awkward location.

    wkuwiz: It isn't clear to me.

    1. Is the base now turning relative to the engine block?
    2. If it is - can it be turned in either direction?

    And I'd suggest making or buying the correct tool to turn it. Something that fits over the nipple and bolts or pins extending down to engage the holes in the base plate. A handle on it would also be handy. Needle nose are not intended for the use they're being put to and aren't really strong enough for the application.

    Possible tools you might buy:
    http://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-204928.aspx
    or:
    http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/04569992

    These are tools a professional mechanic may actually have.
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders
    '12 R1200R - I love this bike!

  7. #52
    i should be out riding! wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    wyman,

    It's also hard to understand how this could happen on a filter that was installed by hand, hence "hand tight"... I'm not strong enough to cross-thread steel to steel what looks like about 1/2" pipe thread, much less strip out the threads. The problem removing the nipple is I'm certain BMW used something to lock it into the block, and if the something was red-Loctite, you're looking at in excess of 550 degrees F to unlock it (and it has to be removed while still at that temperature.) I have no idea how anyone could do that. Trying to remove the nipple without getting the thread-locker to release could very well result in threads stripped out of the block. That then puts one into trying to do a TimeSert or similar in a very awkward location.

    wkuwiz: It isn't clear to me.

    1. Is the base now turning relative to the engine block?
    2. If it is - can it be turned in either direction?

    And I'd suggest making or buying the correct tool to turn it. Something that fits over the nipple and bolts or pins extending down to engage the holes in the base plate. A handle on it would also be handy. Needle nose are not intended for the use they're being put to and aren't really strong enough for the application.

    Possible tools you might buy:
    http://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-204928.aspx
    or:
    http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/04569992

    These are tools a professional mechanic may actually have.
    i agree with your assessment Don....and i too do not understand how this would happen...Ted Porter surmises that the oil filter gasket swells and makes the filter harder to remove if over tightened...

    if this were my RT (glad it is not) i would probably make a fixture to hold the oil filter base and then use a hole saw the same ID as the pressed threaded parts that appears to have lost its threads....then being very careful to cut the damaged bit left with a hacksaw blade to remove the remaining ring...this would damage the threads on the nipple with a minor cut, but i think, given the location, the slot created by the saw cut would not matter as it lies in the pressurized area anyway....

    oh yeah, i would have removed ALL of the plastic, headlight assy, tank and such and support the bike on its side with the wheels parallel to the ground...
    ~wyman~


    2013 BMW R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic

  8. #53
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    The "pin" spanner gland wrench that Don has suggested can easily be made iffin" you want to try it. A piece of 3/4"x3/4" angle iron drilled for the hole spacing and couple of great 5 or 8 all thread bolts the size of the existing holes would do it. It would, IMO, first have to be established whether or not there are corresponding holes in the existing piece (closest to the engine) so the bolts would pass through the plate that is moving and "pick up" the plate that is not.

    Wyman's hole-saw idea has merit but it would require some fancy set-up to hole the hole-saw in a built fixture to keep it from "walking" as it would have no arbor (drill-bit) to hold it like it would be held on a fresh drilling.

    As to why or how It really doesn't matter. I suspect a dry gasket a bit too tight.

    Hit it with the air chisel and get it to move. Once it starts, I think it will come off as it should. It couldn't get on that well (leak wise) if it had been cross threaded.
    OM
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  9. #54
    i should be out riding! wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    The "pin" spanner gland wrench that Don has suggested can easily be made iffin" you want to try it. A piece of 3/4"x3/4" angle iron drilled for the hole spacing and couple of great 5 or 8 all thread bolts the size of the existing holes would do it. It would, IMO, first have to be established whether or not there are corresponding holes in the existing piece (closest to the engine) so the bolts would pass through the plate that is moving and "pick up" the plate that is not.

    Wyman's hole-saw idea has merit but it would require some fancy set-up to hole the hole-saw in a built fixture to keep it from "walking" as it would have no arbor (drill-bit) to hold it like it would be held on a fresh drilling.

    As to why or how It really doesn't matter. I suspect a dry gasket a bit too tight.

    Hit it with the air chisel and get it to move. Once it starts, I think it will come off as it should. It couldn't get on that well (leak wise) if it had been cross threaded.
    OM
    OM, i would not advise the air chisel approach...in the hands of the lesser experienced disaster could result...

    as for the fancy setup, i do not think it is needed...the hole saw (if the ID is close to the OD of the threaded portion of the filter) will self center and not "walk" all that much and no arbor would be needed...as for the spanner...i would use a piece of steel rod (looks like 1/4 or 5/16") bent to a "V" and the ends bent to hold the filter holes....

    but i think we are getting close to solving this problem......fingers crossed here...

    wy
    ~wyman~


    2013 BMW R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic

  10. #55
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Save for the OP's problem, it's a great thread. A bunch of Members teaming up to work through and unusual problem.

    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
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    2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

  11. #56
    i should be out riding! wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkuwiz View Post
    Yes, I have the oil filter wrench from my good friends at the local BMW dealer. But thanks for asking. Stopped by a BMW shop here in No Cal and essentially got the same answer to tear the filter down. I am on the right path I believe.
    Thought there'd be more who've done this....
    wkuwiz, you mention above that you "stopped by a BMW shop here in No Cal"....are you in California?

    if so, you could truck your RT to my place in Solvang and i believe we can get it fixed.....

    wyman
    ~wyman~


    2013 BMW R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic

  12. #57
    Registered User wkuwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyman.winn View Post
    wkuwiz, you mention above that you "stopped by a BMW shop here in No Cal"....are you in California?

    if so, you could truck your RT to my place in Solvang and i believe we can get it fixed.....

    wyman
    Wyman: Thank you. I was in Walnut Creek last week on business and stopped by that little BMW Shop. I live in NW Arkansas. And FWIW it's an R1200R not an RT. Less plastic!
    And thanks to everyone on the great suggestions. I have ordered a tool suggested on the ADV board for a "life saving wrench" built for a Ducati. If it doesn't fit, I'll return it.

    I left the bike alone after Sunday's work. Thinking, gathering opinions. I am traveling again this week so time is not pressing. But my wife asked how her bike is doing with the filter issue. Ooops...

    Next step is to mark the filter collar with a sharpie and see if it's turning on the nipple in addition to the plate. I suspect it is. I need downward force and a medium to give bite to the filter's stripped threads. Teflon Tape and Candle Wax have been suggested. As has tack welding a piece of conduit with a 90 degree bar onto the plate.

    Before I trailer it to my local BMW shop and give up I thought I'd have a pack of my ADV buddies over for beers and opinions. Could be quite the gathering. I'll post pics as we progress.
    Thanks to everyone. I'd like to solve this myself with your help. But I realize the mechanics have far more than I'll ever have in the garage.
    WKUWIZ

  13. #58
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  14. #59
    Registered User wkuwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Okay Paul! Love it. Here's my latest: Roll it out of the garage to beneath the B-ball goal. Use ratchets to hoist the front and chock the back with firewood. Get a couple of needlenose on what remains of the canister and, as you say, Twist and Pull! Now if I twist and shout it may be an all together different outcome... I will be sure to invite several friends over for beers, pics, and opinions - shouldn't be any other way.

    If this doesn't back the SOB off then I'm going to my dealer.

    FWIW I went by the Charlotte NC dealer today. Asked to speak to a mechanic about the problem. Service Manager inquires why, I show pic, he says they've used an air chisel but when it's been done before they hit the threaded nipple and had to replace. Oooops. Should have persisted in speaking to a mechanic but they have one of those nice showroom kind of shops...

  15. #60
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    Since you have a R1200R and the oil is out of the bike I would forget the ratchet straps, the B-Ball goal, and the stack of fire wood and lay the bike on it's side and a few nice thick blankets and try to get the filter off. This way it is easy to access and you do not have to worry about the bike falling off the stack of fire wood.

    Just my 2 cents

    Roger L

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