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    Registered User K1600_gtl's Avatar
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    New law on Lane Sharing / Splitting .. how do you read this?

    How do you all interpret some of this with regards to splitting in the fast lane only, or splitting on a single lane (or single lane exit)?

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...=201520160AB51
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    There must be at least two lanes going in the direction you are going. You may split between those lanes. Between #1 and #2 lane is the recommended spot and may become the only legal one once the CHP weigh in again, as this is the only spot that cars are expecting it and there is more room for the cars to leave space as the #1 lane can hedge towards the center divider.

    You may not go to the left of the left most lane of traffic in the direction you are traveling (unless it is a legal pass in the oncoming lane) or to the right of the right most lane of traffic in the direction you are traveling (illegal pass on the shoulder). Same as it's always been.



    Last edited by 98lee; 02-16-2017 at 01:19 AM.
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    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Who's on first

    A visual helps some of us

    Lane-Splitting-Guidelines.jpg


    and then there is this one...not here of course

    Lane-Splitting-Traffic-Congestion.jpg
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    Registered User daveredman's Avatar
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    So... only between #1 and #2, and not between #2 & #3...... even if there is a #4 and/or a #5??.

    I have split a few times on previous visit.
    It got kinda loud (wife screaming at me).

    I will be on I-8, and I-15 and I-5 again in a few days... er, excuse me, THe 8 and the 15 and the 5.
    (San Diego, near Ocean Beach, and headed out on day rides.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveredman View Post
    So... only between #1 and #2, and not between #2 & #3...... even if there is a #4 and/or a #5??.
    .
    Dave,

    While it is not specifically outlawed (yet) between other lanes, it is HIGHLY adviseable to stick to between #1 and #2 because other drivers don't expect it between other lanes and, for someone that doesn't do it routinely, you need use all the precautions you can.

    If you split between #2 and #3, it causes the car in #2 to hedge to the left, right INTO the bike that is splitting between #1 and #2. It really makes it hard on the cars in the #2 lane to have to be looking at BOTH sides and weaving back and forth to make more room for the bikes. If everyone stays between #1 and #2, the cars in #1 stay to the left of their lane and the cars in #2 stay towards the right of their lane and Everybody's happy.

    The slower lanes have much less lane discipline as they are the ones that are contantly getting on and off the freeways or aren't going to be on the freeway long enough to get to the fast lane and back before their exit. Also, they are the drivers that don't feel comfortable (in their own abilities) in the fast lane. They don't notice that 18 wheeler when they blindly change lanes 100 ft. before their exit, why would they notice a motorcycle?

    The fast lanes in California generally have a higher percentage of people that are actually paying attention. It might only be 50%, but that's higher than the other lanes.

    Plan each pass with care even (especially) when splitting for long distances in stop and go traffic. It is safer to split when there are cars next to each other because the chance of one of them suddenly decideing that he just has to get in the other lane NOW is low. Watch out for the frustrated driver that thinks the other lane is moving faster and there is an open spot next to him. He might not see YOU. Be careful when cars have JUST slowed. They might be thinking more about getting in another lane than watching out for bikes. Once they have slowed and feel resigned to the slow traffic, the lane disipline gets better, especially after the first bike goes by.

    1st or second gear, cover the brakes and clutch, all conspicuity lights on. Modulators work great! Concentrate! It only takes a split second for things to go wrong.



    Last edited by 98lee; 02-12-2017 at 10:38 PM.
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    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
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    I was riding south of LA on the 405 in September during a Friday afternoon rush hour. All the lanes were filled, and the far left lane was designated the HOV lane. All of the lane-splitting by we motorcyclists was done between the HOV lane and the #1 lane. Fortunately for this RT rider, the space was wider there with multiple lane markers. The motorcyclists were not following the 10 mph difference guideline (since the traffic was rolling along, stop and go, but otherwise about 20 mph). This neophyte from MA tried to move along smartly, but every few minutes I had to move into the HOV lane to let those behind get moving fast. The drivers were very helpful, moving to the left in the HOV lane and the right in the #1 lane to allow the motorcyclists through.

    It would be great if this could be the law of the land, but we all know that will never happen...
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    I think the trend towards legislation favoring self driving cars will eventually kill lane splitting altogether, as a motorcycle coming through the lanes from the rear is something that they can not recognize easily and the cars are programmed to stay in the center of the lane. They will get confused. It will be easier to ban lane splitting than have the cars recognize the situation.



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    Registered User daveredman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98lee View Post
    ...........
    Thanks for the great explanation.

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    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    As (un)interesting this thread is(‘nt), I continue to be disappointed that we are stuck looking down at our case guards yammering on about how great/horrible lane splitting is. While the rest of the world is trying to figure out how we transition from zero autonomy vehicles (you drive it) to fully autonomous vehicles the BMW MOA is missing out on our (individual and BMW MOA/and Foundation) chance to participate in defining how that transition goes and what the ridding world will look like in the future.

    Fully autonomous vehicles are in the future. What they look like, how they function and interact with the world around them is being decided now. In very broad headings the outcome will be determined by the dynamic development of infrastructure, regulations/laws, and technology. The development of one affects the other.

    Fully autonomous vehicles have infrastructure planners thinking about what a lane is, how wide does it need to be, how many vehicles will it move v what a lane does now, and as a result how many lanes do I need to move traffic? This discussion is going on now in Fly-Over-Land. Local governments and planners are thinking out into the future for how we are building roads now.

    The technology side holds the dream of accident-free transportation. How much of a reality or dream that is is dependent on the technology being able to understand the rules for the cars, other vehicles, non-autonomous vehicles, pedestrians, bicyclists etc. The future development work is highly dependent on the current infrastructure and regulation development being done now.

    What lane splitting means now is not what many of these developers see in the future. In some urban planning discussions, motorcycles may not share lanes with autonomous cars but be moved into bus lanes and in same cases lane sharing with bicyclists.

    Go back and read the law from the original post and look at subsection C.

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...=201520160AB51

    Lane splitting is a worldwide phenomenon, not just a Cali - Fly-Over-Land provincial thing. California is the US home to technology firms developing autonomous vehicle technology and the most motorcyclists/lane splitters in our country. What they develop is the issue.

    BMW AG is a serious player in the development of autonomous vehicles including motorcycles. The recent self-driving motorcycle announced is the latest in the development line of motorcycles that talk with cars, self-balance and more. The development of these cars and motorcycles will continue and eventually make it to the road. I may not buy one but I want them to recognize my Luddite Roadster as a motorcycle and not something else.

    Subsection C 4) is where I wish the MOA and the Foundation were spending its time.

    (c) In developing guidelines pursuant to this section, the department shall consult with agencies and organizations with an interest in road safety and motorcyclist behavior, including, but not limited to, all of the following:
    (1) The Department of Motor Vehicles.
    (2) The Department of Transportation.
    (3) The Office of Traffic Safety.
    [u](4) A motorcycle organization focused on motorcyclist safety.[/b]

    Why aren’t we (BMW MOA and the Foundation) working with groups like the legislature of California, BMW AG by way of our membership in the International BMW Club, and other settings to develop the infrastructure, technology and regulations/laws of the future ridding world?

    Trying to convert either side in this thread is a fool's errand even a knight-errant like Don Quixote would take up. Yet that is what we appear to be about.

  10. #10
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Agree with Mika, this thread has degraded quite a bit... Can we get away from personal sniping and stick with actual facts?

    And speaking of which: the law does say that it is illegal to impede the progress of a 'splitter, but I don't recall seeing anything that says that cars are actually "required" to move out of our way - often, traffic conditions really won't allow that (construction, or narrow lanes in some places, like the Harbor Freeway 110 southbound just south of downtown L.A. is a great example, and there are a few choke points on the San Diego Freeway 405 southbound, southwest of L.A.) - Anybody want to point me to that phrase in the statutes?

    In my own experience, cars usually move out of recognition and politeness (it looks like a cop bike, and I have a headlight modulator...), and they certainly move for the Motor Officers because because they don't want the red 'n' blinkies on them - I've seen them occasionally beep or flash a car so they could get through, and I've even been beeped too (first thought is "What did I do now??") to let them pass me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mika View Post
    As (un)interesting this thread is(‘nt), I continue to be disappointed that we are stuck looking down at our case guards yammering on about how great/horrible lane splitting is. While the rest of the world is trying to figure out how we transition from zero autonomy vehicles (you drive it) to fully autonomous vehicles the BMW MOA is missing out on our (individual and BMW MOA/and Foundation) chance to participate in defining how that transition goes and what the ridding world will look like in the future.

    Fully autonomous vehicles are in the future. What they look like, how they function and interact with the world around them is being decided now. In very broad headings the outcome will be determined by the dynamic development of infrastructure, regulations/laws, and technology. The development of one affects the other.

    Fully autonomous vehicles have infrastructure planners thinking about what a lane is, how wide does it need to be, how many vehicles will it move v what a lane does now, and as a result how many lanes do I need to move traffic? This discussion is going on now in Fly-Over-Land. Local governments and planners are thinking out into the future for how we are building roads now.

    The technology side holds the dream of accident-free transportation. How much of a reality or dream that is is dependent on the technology being able to understand the rules for the cars, other vehicles, non-autonomous vehicles, pedestrians, bicyclists etc. The future development work is highly dependent on the current infrastructure and regulation development being done now.

    What lane splitting means now is not what many of these developers see in the future. In some urban planning discussions, motorcycles may not share lanes with autonomous cars but be moved into bus lanes and in same cases lane sharing with bicyclists.

    Go back and read the law from the original post and look at subsection C.

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...=201520160AB51

    Lane splitting is a worldwide phenomenon, not just a Cali - Fly-Over-Land provincial thing. California is the US home to technology firms developing autonomous vehicle technology and the most motorcyclists/lane splitters in our country. What they develop is the issue.

    BMW AG is a serious player in the development of autonomous vehicles including motorcycles. The recent self-driving motorcycle announced is the latest in the development line of motorcycles that talk with cars, self-balance and more. The development of these cars and motorcycles will continue and eventually make it to the road. I may not buy one but I want them to recognize my Luddite Roadster as a motorcycle and not something else.

    Subsection C 4) is where I wish the MOA and the Foundation were spending its time.

    (c) In developing guidelines pursuant to this section, the department shall consult with agencies and organizations with an interest in road safety and motorcyclist behavior, including, but not limited to, all of the following:
    (1) The Department of Motor Vehicles.
    (2) The Department of Transportation.
    (3) The Office of Traffic Safety.
    [u](4) A motorcycle organization focused on motorcyclist safety.[/b]

    Why aren’t we (BMW MOA and the Foundation) working with groups like the legislature of California, BMW AG by way of our membership in the International BMW Club, and other settings to develop the infrastructure, technology and regulations/laws of the future ridding world?

    Trying to convert either side in this thread is a fool's errand even a knight-errant like Don Quixote would take up. Yet that is what we appear to be about.
    Mika - You raise some interesting scenarios.

    Personally, I don't think this 'push to autonomous transportation' is going very well. Seems like it's being rushed to market, albeit still in the testing phase, and not doing well.

    Seems the same has been true for many computer operating systems, constantly in need of patches, updates and fixes. And 'speech recognition' software. Woefully lacking in efficiency, yet we're forced to argue with it every day.

    I remember enjoying Arthur C. Clarke's Profiles of the Future, where he prophesized so many innovations, medical advances, exploration, colonization and progress in our social structures - and yet, here we are in 2018, and much of what was in that book has failed to come to pass. Not his fault, per se - he was just a bit too optimistic a visionary.

    I think calling "lane splitting a worldwide phenomenon" is giving it a bit too much credit. In hopelessly crowded urban areas around the world, where scooters and low-to-moderate cc motorcycles are numerous due to cost, gas efficiency, high fuel costs and vehicle-ownership being too expensive for the masses, lane splitting evolved for those reasons.

    I think we are generations away from autonomous transportation being the norm, if for no other reason than we barely keep our aging infrastructure manageable as is - a redesign is financially a long way off. I hope so - where is the fun in that?!

    Enjoy the present - especially on two wheels!
    Last edited by greenwald; 10-06-2018 at 01:04 AM.

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    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    As always, this topic often ( sometimes always)brings diametrically opposed stances.

    Lets respect the difference of opinions and not go down the personal feelings rabbit hole .

    I have done it, not done it, wished I could do it and shook my head for some who practice it with no others safety in mind.
    It works where it works and a necessity in the toolbox of many riders where it is practiced. I move on.
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    A proposed lane splitting law for Montana died in committee in the legislature for the second year in a row. Having a lane splitting law in Montana makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    My dear beemerdood -

    Your commentary is getting a tad sarcastic
    You write, "My dear beemerdood" – and you say that I'm "getting a tad sarcastic?" LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    and accusatory,
    "[A]ccusatory?" You made a mistake. I caught it and called you on it. Then you claim that you had "corrected" it before I had a chance to post my reply. But in fact, you had neither corrected it, nor had you even admitted the error.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    but that's OK with me - thick skin. If we can't examine this phonemnum with objectivity, best we not discuss it at all.
    But we are "discuss[ing] it." And it does not seem, especially with your admission that you dislike lane sharing, that you are being objective.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    As Paul somewhat enthusiastically pointed out, I 'detest' lane splitting, though that's a bit too strongly worded - more like, I don't really consider it a 'safety option,' so much as simply a long-practiced convenience in your state.
    Traffic laws are based in safety of the traveling public. A good part of that involves keeping traffic moving, a matter of, as you say, "convenience." Rumors are that back in the day, when all motorcycles were air cooled, that lane sharing was permitted because it kept them moving so they did not overheat. But I've never seen that rumor confirmed. There have been several safety studies that show that lane sharing keeps traffic moving, and is safer for motorcyclists, but there have been some saying that there is no difference regarding safety. There may be some showing the reverse of the first one, I can't keep up.

    It seems obvious that that it does move traffic along, since the bikes aren't taking up space in traffic. I've seen both rear end collisions and bikers who have gone down while lane sharing. I had a good friend killed while lane sharing, but he was one of those who rode much too fast while passing traffic, and another one purposefully taken down (only slightly injured) by a driver who didn't think he should be riding past him in the same lane. I've seen several serious injuries from riders who were rear ended, while sitting in traffic. Generally the rear end collisions I've seen, resulted in far more serious injuries than from lane sharing. It's my opinion, formed through over 50 years of riding, and many years of accident investigation, that lane sharing, especially when done within the guidelines suggested by the CHP, (or close to them) is safer for the motorcyclist than taking up space in traffic. It's been my experience that the accidents that occur during lane sharing are less traumatic than the rear end collisions that occur while sitting in traffic.

    It seems to me that since lane sharing is only lawful in CA that those from other states are talking more theory than practice, since they have little or no experience with it. And so I tend to rely more on information from people who have actually seen and done it, as well as my own experience with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    No need for us to go round and round on this - your passion for this practice is evident, so I'll not disturb your feelings on this issue.
    You haven't "disturb[ed my] feelings on this issue." But your passing along of bad info is troublesome. I think that people rely on LE to have the best information on the law, and you obviously did not live up to that. When caught, instead of simply admitting your error, you tried to make me look like the bad guy, with a snide remark that I was "late to the party."

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    As I certainly do not wish you to lose sleep over the absence of an apology,
    Yeah, no sarcasm there. LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    I officially apologize for confusing guidelines with actual statutory requirements.
    Thanks. I think that any mistaken information that you may have conveyed, has now been corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    If you wish to continue insulting my "experience and expertise," you are welcome to do so. After all, I am unaware of your credentials.
    I'm pretty sure that I didn't "insult [your] experience and expertise." I'm pretty sure that the only reference I made to it was that it was difficult to understand how someone with your education, training and experience could get an easily referenced law so wrong.

    As to my credentials – I'm a 30 year retired police Sgt. who worked for two LE agencies in the Los Angeles, CA area. I worked patrol as Reserve, an officer, an FTO (Field Training Officer, a K−9 handler, and as a Sergeant. I worked SWAT, Traffic, Detectives, Personnel, on a SIT (Shooting Investigation Team), Vice, Narcotics, I've been the Rangemaster for the department and the department K−9 trainer. I'm a court recognized expert on the use of force, several weapons and weapons systems and K−9's. I now train people to train their dogs, teach the defensive use of firearms for a prominent company, and do consultant, work on the use of force and the training, use and deployment of K−9's.

    But my credentials really have little to do with this exchange, I only provided this information so you'd have some idea of who you were talking with.

    You made the error regarding the law, and I pointed it out. Anyone who was familiar with the new law in CA could have done that. Now you've admitted it and apologized for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    A proposed lane splitting law for Montana died in committee in the legislature for the second year in a row. Having a lane splitting law in Montana makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.
    While there are not the kind of traffic jams on the freeway in Montana that one finds regularly in Los Angeles or other large, densely populated cities, there are many instances where filtering up to the front of traffic at a light, a special kind of lane sharing, could occur. These cars are stopped, it's not possible for them to change lanes (usually) and so filtering is much safer than doing it when traffic is moving, as lane sharing is usually thought of. I think such a law in any state, is a good idea. It would allow bikes, most of which accelerate faster than most cars to get out in front of them, so there would be less chance of a car lane changing into them. And it would free up traffic since there's one less vehicle in the line at the light. It's been done in much of Europe for ages.

    These forums have many first–person stories about getting rear–ended while stopped at the end of a line of cars at a traffic signal. Allowing filtering would mean that the bike wasn't hanging out at the end of such a line, and would all but eliminate such accidents.

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