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The ONLY way to See the Alps...

What NElliott said. Rob maintains a stable of his own bikes, all generally current or one model year old, he swaps them out at 30-40K kM. He also supplements his bikes with bikes straight from BMW's factory fleet, to ensure everyone gets the bike they want. No old or worn out bikes for his tours.

As for rentals, for years they played middle man with a few rental outlets, if someone wanted to do their own thing. They stopped offering that service last year, as the internet has made it easier for people to make their own arrangements, and the time it took for a few % commission the time is better spent on tour customers . Rob never rented from his fleet.

As far as bike choice, yes he will give you advice on the right tool for the job, 43 years of experience IS worth something. If you want a K bike, he will get it for you, but is frank on the limitations of those models in the really tight stuff in the mountains. Most of his tours you will not be on the highway, and much more likely to be on the goat path, that leads to a phenomenal destination or road with incredible views or riding.

Again, Rob doesn't dictate, he facilitates, but he wants his clients to have the best time of their lives, and will make suggestions help to educate and spend time with anyone wanting to learn. That is something others actually charge extra for. IMHO, Rob is always spot on in his assessment, I am a MUCH better rider because of his tutelage.

Without going back, I believe you mentioned the need to keep the R bike up in rpm's to pull the corners, thought you mentioned 4K. Well, that is too low, I shoot for 5-8K when in the tight stuff, 2nd and 3rd most of the time. The main reason is you have MUCH more control, and use the brakes far less. Anyone who rides tight roads will agree, K, R, Japanese, English it does not matter, low gears and high revs is how it is done. Why? Well one big reason is 90% of your speed control is the right wrist, low gears increase engine braking so no need to use the brakes. This may not be what you are accustom to but it DOES work better, an open mind is how we all learn, and like the old commercial said "TRY IT YOU"LL LIKE IT". But if not he is good with that too.

Damn, all this Euro talk, along with winter temps and snow, are making me jones for another Alps trip!

I ride an F bike now, and same thing in the tight (fun) stuff, 2nd and 3rd and keep the motor singing.
 
pffog;1072028\ said:
Damn, all this Euro talk, along with winter temps and snow, are making me jones for another Alps trip!

I just booked a Beach's Classic Alps tour for 2018, June 17 to July 1. Dreaming has now begun!
 
I just booked a Beach's Classic Alps tour for 2018, June 17 to July 1. Dreaming has now begun!
To get some sense of riding in the Alps, on YouTube search for Alexander Thiessen (40+ passes! Alexander's riding is on the conservative side), RichyVida (lots of videos, look for the Gross Glockner and two Stelvio/Stilfser Joch videos; Stelvio #2 is scary between the WX, battery failure, brake failure, and two drops in a gas station - all rides on a VFR), jens1600GT (something of a wildman on a K1600GT - the Mt. Ventoux video in particular; Jens won't tell me what speeds he hit), and K16Troll (despite the name, almost all videos are with a 1200GS).

The weather on the trip this past July was "tourist weather", with no rain and surprisingly mild temperatures in the mountains (even at 9K ft). The lower elevations in the Sud Tirol (south Tirol - northmost Italy) were 75-85F. OTOH I know of tours with non-stop rain. Non-stop being the operative term - the trip wasn't postponed (no surprise, of course). Dress accordingly.
 
To get some sense of riding in the Alps, on YouTube search for Alexander Thiessen (40+ passes! Alexander's riding is on the conservative side), RichyVida (lots of videos, look for the Gross Glockner and two Stelvio/Stilfser Joch videos; Stelvio #2 is scary between the WX, battery failure, brake failure, and two drops in a gas station - all rides on a VFR), jens1600GT (something of a wildman on a K1600GT - the Mt. Ventoux video in particular; Jens won't tell me what speeds he hit), and K16Troll (despite the name, almost all videos are with a 1200GS).

The weather on the trip this past July was "tourist weather", with no rain and surprisingly mild temperatures in the mountains (even at 9K ft). The lower elevations in the Sud Tirol (south Tirol - northmost Italy) were 75-85F. OTOH I know of tours with non-stop rain. Non-stop being the operative term - the trip wasn't postponed (no surprise, of course). Dress accordingly.

I have done 16 days riding in the Alps, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Slovenia. No surprises for me. Rain or shine all good. I live near Vancouver, BC. We see rain once in awhile.
 
1 don't understand your comment. Rob has a selection of bikes and will work to get you any current bmw if he doesn't own it. They provide the bike, end of story.
The following is currently on their web site under rentals in Munich:
BMCA said:
Beach's is currently not offering rental motorcycles.

We have decided it is best to focus on our core business of providing exceptional motorcycle tours. However, you still have some options. Below you will find information pertaining to our recommended rental provider in Munich.

We have a long standing relationship with Karl Maier BMW. Motorcycles offered are generally current year low mileage bikes. The fleet of motorcycles available in munich is small and normally there is only one of each model available.

If you have any questions concerning European touring please call us at 716-773-4960.
Karl Maier BMW

Erdinger Str. 10
Neufinsing
85464
info@motorrad-kmaier.de
+49 (0) 8121 81515
http://www.motorrad-kmaier.de/
If that's not accurate, something's amiss here. Until I hear otherwise from BMCA, I can only assume rental is my responsibility.

2 read however you want. Rob is saying that a lot of North American riders think they know how to ride, but when they get to Europe they are over their head. If you've ridden in the Alps, I don't know why this statement bothers you. It is a fact. That is all. Sounds to me like you disagree with the statement or their in your face approach.
"In your face" isn't a good first contact strategy in marketing. It's part of why they didn't get my business the first time around.

Yes, the riding is different(!) and the learning curve can be ...um... interesting. That said, riders who ride poorly in the States are in for a few scary moments. Riders who have it together in the States will find it relatively easy to add new skills to their skills toolbox. At least that's what I observed with the "scary" riders, and in some measure in my riding (not bragging, I had a couple of ...um... moments early on).

3 want a good experience? Beach's will give you the best opportunity to have one. The rest is your up to your attitude and approach.
I'm not the person who put together a tour with 19 bikes and two guides. I'm not the person who said "no bigger bike" and then added two bagger H-D's after "enrollment" was closed. Let's not go into attitude.

4 no one on this site cares who you go with, we are just telling you Beachs is a good operator for many, many reasons outlined above. If you want to find reasons not to go with them. Then have at er. IMO "your loss."

Is this too straight forward for you?

I paid $5K, believing Edelweiss' advertising, and info from four or five folks who had BTDT anywhere from ten years ago to two years ago. The riding worked, the tour was a major disappointment. I'm now looking at $10K for a two week trip. Why would I not ask a lot of questions before committing to more money than I paid for my current bike?

Okay I was cranky when I wrote the above, and it still holds true.
However, I will add that l know a tour is a big expense, a bit of a gamble, a decision not to take lightly, because of the cost. I think you would be be well served to go with Beachs. Your decision, good luck, choose well and may it work out for you, whatever your choice.

At the moment BMCA is very much in the running. OTOH, I speak the language, know the traffic rules (mostly - just got "blitzed" for 90+ on an 80 on-ramp), and have a sense of how, over here, things work socially. Which argues for DIY. The down side is not knowing the "really good" routes, beyond what I can drag out of my GPS maps. And maybe getting lucky and finding someone who's fun to ride with.

Schöne Grusse aus Bad Schwalbach Deutschland. :)
 
There is no conflict here. Beach does tours with bikes provided but no longer rents bikes for folks not taking a tour. They used to. They don't any more, but if you want to just rent a bike they can point you in the right direction.
 
What NElliott said. Rob maintains a stable of his own bikes, all generally current or one model year old, he swaps them out at 30-40K kM. He also supplements his bikes with bikes straight from BMW's factory fleet, to ensure everyone gets the bike they want. No old or worn out bikes for his tours.

As for rentals, for years they played middle man with a few rental outlets, if someone wanted to do their own thing. They stopped offering that service last year, as the internet has made it easier for people to make their own arrangements, and the time it took for a few % commission the time is better spent on tour customers . Rob never rented from his fleet.
See above for the quote that has me wondering about bikes.
As far as bike choice, yes he will give you advice on the right tool for the job, 43 years of experience IS worth something. If you want a K bike, he will get it for you, but is frank on the limitations of those models in the really tight stuff in the mountains. Most of his tours you will not be on the highway, and much more likely to be on the goat path, that leads to a phenomenal destination or road with incredible views or riding.
To be clear about this, BMCA would be amiss not to describe what newbies can expect, and how to pick a bike accordingly. My reaction is to the tone - see above re: "in your face"
Again, Rob doesn't dictate, he facilitates, but he wants his clients to have the best time of their lives, and will make suggestions help to educate and spend time with anyone wanting to learn. That is something others actually charge extra for. IMHO, Rob is always spot on in his assessment, I am a MUCH better rider because of his tutelage.
That's a strong argument for BMCA. If I haven't mentioned it, I had the same experience with a "check ride" guide who briefly followed the group led by a new guide. Climbing Timmelsjoch, he spotted I was having a hard time with left turns and gave a spot-on demo to clean up the problem. I still work hard to get as close to his example as possible. Videoing my rides, I can see a major change in my riding style and approach to riding.
Without going back, I believe you mentioned the need to keep the R bike up in rpm's to pull the corners, thought you mentioned 4K. Well, that is too low, I shoot for 5-8K when in the tight stuff, 2nd and 3rd most of the time. The main reason is you have MUCH more control, and use the brakes far less. Anyone who rides tight roads will agree, K, R, Japanese, English it does not matter, low gears and high revs is how it is done. Why? Well one big reason is 90% of your speed control is the right wrist, low gears increase engine braking so no need to use the brakes. This may not be what you are accustom to but it DOES work better, an open mind is how we all learn, and like the old commercial said "TRY IT YOU"LL LIKE IT". But if not he is good with that too.
With the RT I looked at 3K as the floor for RPM's. In situations where shifting wasn't a good choice (e.g., mid-turn), I had no qualms about letting the motor wind up. Steering and suspension were golden. What I didn't like is the bike was far too buzzy at almost any speed, and the transmission banged around as if it had been beaten into the ground. Much of my Stateside braking and speed control is with the throttle and tranny. Ditto in the Alps. FWIW I have '09 RT loaner that's much less buzzy than the wethead, and the tranny is smoother, even after 52K+. Go figure.
Damn, all this Euro talk, along with winter temps and snow, are making me jones for another Alps trip!

I ride an F bike now, and same thing in the tight (fun) stuff, 2nd and 3rd and keep the motor singing.
Cheer up, it's somewhere between -3 and +5C (mid-20's to 40-ish F) here, and the roads are damp enough (no sun, occasion drizzle) to make riding interesting. OTOH, I just drove on a road that's darn near heartbreaking to not be able to ride. (Google Café Platte Da Nunzio Bad Schwalbach (tonight ravioli filled with Gorgonzola and walnut bits was killer as was s-i-l's lasagna I finished off) - go to the map, and look for Reitallee or L3374 - or check out B54/275). I feel your pain. :)
 
The following is currently on their web site under rentals in Munich:
If that's not accurate, something's amiss here. Until I hear otherwise from BMCA, I can only assume rental is my responsibility.

The down side is not knowing the "really good" routes, beyond what I can drag out of my GPS maps. And maybe getting lucky and finding someone who's fun to ride with.

:)

1. From the Beach FAQ page...

What motorcycles are available?
Motorcycles are provided and are included in the rider tour price. There is no mileage charge nor mileage limitation. You are free to use the motorcycle to your heart's (and bottom's) content!

The motorcycle will be at the hotel at the beginning of the tour, and that is where it is taken at the end of the tour. You need not spend time transporting our motorcycles to a remote rental location. In addition, you deal only with the Beachs for all motorcycle arrangements. There is no need to sign secondary contracts with outside agents.

In the Alps and in Italy we currently use the BMW F650GS, F800GS, F800R, R1200GS, and R1200R as our base motorcycles. All other BMW models, with the exception of the LT, are available at an additional charge. Other brands may be available on special request.

The list of BMWs available on tour, complete with specifications, and some thoughts on choosing a bike for the tour, may be found on our BMW page.

2. Rob has amazing routes mapped out, from the years of experience, for each day for you to choose from, OR you can create your own.

3. Want to DIY then rent from somewhere, or ship over your own bike, wing it for routes, plan it ahead of time, and Sherpa your own gear and luggage, and find your own places to stay. All doable.

Good luck.
 
The question is which is the current situation - the FAQ or the quoted material. :scratch
I've asked BMCA about this - no reply to date.

The "local knowledge" routes are a very strong argument for BMCA.
 
The question is which is the current situation - the FAQ or the quoted material. :scratch
I've asked BMCA about this - no reply to date.

The "local knowledge" routes are a very strong argument for BMCA.

Well I just signed up for my third tour and KNOW the bike is included in the cost of the tour.
And Paul has told you, and PFFOG has told you. Not sure why you are "unsure"???

Wait to hear from Rob if that is the only thing that will appease you. It's Christmas, he may be awhile getting back to you, they take time off too.
 
Since you just signed up and have the bike in the package, that's pretty strong argument.

I think I've misread what BMCA's saying: "we no longer rent to people who just want to rent a bike; see Karl Maier instead." That would square the circle between what I quoted and what the FAQ says.
 
Reading the FAQ, there's a $2500 deductible. Is there an add-on to bring the deductible down? Not a "must"; a "would be nice."
 
Insurance is always a gamble. Looking at the BMCA/Smugmug photo series, those accidents and road drop didn't come cheap. Ouch.
 
There is no conflict here. Beach does tours with bikes provided but no longer rents bikes for folks not taking a tour. They used to. They don't any more, but if you want to just rent a bike they can point you in the right direction.

What Paul said, no longer brokering rentals for people not taking tours.
 
......... That's a strong argument for BMCA. If I haven't mentioned it, I had the same experience with a "check ride" guide who briefly followed the group led by a new guide. Climbing Timmelsjoch, he spotted I was having a hard time with left turns and gave a spot-on demo to clean up the problem. I still work hard to get as close to his example as possible. Videoing my rides, I can see a major change in my riding style and approach to riding............

And with Rob, this can be a 2 week lesson, not a 1/2 day. He obviously can't always go 1 on 1 as there are other clients, but if you are willing and eager to learn, he will make the time to help you. As I said before, he has taken a passenger on his bike for a day or two so a rider could get comfortable solo first, I saw him skip a lunch to take a struggling rider out to practice, even put him on the back of his bike to show him how to approach and navigate tight hairpins.

As far as "in your face" Rob is straight forward, but I look at it as more truthful. He takes it personally if you don't have a great time, some things are out of his control, but making sure a rider is competent enough and know what they are getting into (The best riding in the world, IMHO) is one thing he can control. One rider can ruin the experience for every other rider, and he works hard to make sure people have the right mindset and attitude. A crash can ruin the euphoria of such a trip, even if it was not you. That is why you "Apply" to tour, not just sign up. There is no, sure send me your $$, good luck, have fun as he is part of every tour.

He is also probably going to have a conversation with you before accepting your application for the reason above as well as others. We have all meet a "Donny Downer" that is not happy about anything, and wants everyone around them to be just as miserable, and although you can do your own thing during the day, the nightly dinner is a time that it is hard to avoid such people, and one bad apple can effect the tone of the tour. Legend has it he sent a "Donny downer" home several years ago and refunded his $$, after he had several conversations about the guys attitude, to no success. His reasoning, to the shocked client, was that he was happy to refund HIS $$, because if he didn't, he would feel obliged to refund all the other clients on tour, because their trip was ruined by him. You can do that when you are the owner, not some hired guide. Also some people just don't like twisty roads, but want to "see Europe", not a wise choice to do a MC tour. I have a friend who meet a group of riders on the Blue Ridge Pky. last year that were complaining that that road sucked, and was too much work. Can you imagine them in the Alps? Their heads would explode! Not a good client for a tour.

As I said before, I have meet 10 or more people on Beach tours, that did previous tours with others including Edelweiss, and every one of them said there is no going back to the others, that the Beach tour was superior in many ways.

P.S. You mentioned waiting a reply, I would send off another email, or better yet call them. They are usually pretty prompt in replying, possible your email got lost in the shuffle, or ended up in the dreaded spam folder, or just never made it through the tangle of electrons flowing through the internet.
 
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And with Rob, this can be a 2 week lesson, not a 1/2 day. He obviously can't always go 1 on 1 as there are other clients, but if you are willing and eager to learn, he will make the time to help you. As I said before, he has taken a passenger on his bike for a day or two so a rider could get comfortable solo first, I saw him skip a lunch to take a struggling rider out to practice, even put him on the back of his bike to show him how to approach and navigate tight hairpins.

As far as "in your face" Rob is straight forward, but I look at it as more truthful. He takes it personally if you don't have a great time, some things are out of his control, but making sure a rider is competent enough and know what they are getting into (The best riding in the world, IMHO) is one thing he can control. One rider can ruin the experience for every other rider, and he works hard to make sure people have the right mindset and attitude. A crash can ruin the euphoria of such a trip, even if it was not you. That is why you "Apply" to tour, not just sign up. There is no, sure send me your $$, good luck, have fun as he is part of every tour.

He is also probably going to have a conversation with you before accepting your application for the reason above as well as others. We have all meet a "Donny Downer" that is not happy about anything, and wants everyone around them to be just as miserable, and although you can do your own thing during the day, the nightly dinner is a time that it is hard to avoid such people, and one bad apple can effect the tone of the tour. Legend has it he sent a "Donny downer" home several years ago and refunded his $$, after he had several conversations about the guys attitude, to no success. His reasoning, to the shocked client, was that he was happy to refund HIS $$, because if he didn't, he would feel obliged to refund all the other clients on tour, because their trip was ruined by him. You can do that when you are the owner, not some hired guide. Also some people just don't like twisty roads, but want to "see Europe", not a wise choice to do a MC tour. I have a friend who meet a group of riders on the Blue Ridge Pky. last year that were complaining that that road sucked, and was too much work. Can you imagine them in the Alps? Their heads would explode! Not a good client for a tour.

As I said before, I have meet 10 or more people on Beach tours, that did previous tours with others including Edelweiss, and every one of them said there is no going back to the others, that the Beach tour was superior in many ways.

P.S. You mentioned waiting a reply, I would send off another email, or better yet call them. They are usually pretty prompt in replying, possible your email got lost in the shuffle, or ended up in the dreaded spam folder, or just never made it through the tangle of electrons flowing through the internet.

Excellent points pffog. And I agree, Truthful and straight forward. Some people are intimidated by that, I personally live with it, that describes my wife!
 
The only way to see the Alps for me is on Youtube. :D The cost of a European motorcycle trip is beyond my reach. There are some videos I have seen that give an excellent illustration of the incredible scenery and the breathtaking roads of the Alps. I'm sure it is even more impressive actually being there.

Not to rain on your parade but... much as I enjoy the YouTube videos, they're kinda like kissing your SO over the phone. The message gets through, but the experience is rather lacking. :)

This is definitely close to a 5-figure undertaking when figuring in the tickets and incidentals on top of the tour price. For some, this is simply not an option. No blame attaches.

Back to the videos... one thing I find them useful for is tuning up riding skills. The videos, all too often, contain more "what not to do" than "what to do" demonstrations. A few examples: people attacking a turn and leaning out of the turn, not in; trying to take the "fast" racer's line through a hairpin or short radius turn and finding themselves facing either a stone wall or a big drop because the radius of their turn is far greater than the turn radius; people who don't check what's coming at them and find a big, solid surprise coming at them. The list goes on, unfortunately.
 
There is no conflict here. Beach does tours with bikes provided but no longer rents bikes for folks not taking a tour. They used to. They don't any more, but if you want to just rent a bike they can point you in the right direction.

Gotit. That was the source of my confusion. IIRC, BMCA lists 5-6 renters in various locations.

I can't quite figure out why someone would expect any tour operator to rent out their biggest inventory line item rather than support their tour customers. :scratch
 
They never rented out of their own stable as far as I know, but always used other rental outlets, they just brokered it. They understand that a full tour may be beyond some peoples budget, and before easy "interweb" communication, someone could make a call and speak to someone whose main language was English, to set up a rental and do their own thing.

May seem like they are supporting competition, but my guess is they just want people to go, have a great time and become addicted like you have. Then maybe when Great Uncle money Bags passes and leaves you with some extra cash, you will sign up for a tour and see how it should be done!

But just like travel agents are becoming a thing of the past, due to travelocity et al, the need to help people acquire a rental has diminished, so they stopped offering that service, but recommended the people they used prior and trusted.
 
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