The ONLY way to See the Alps...

The best bike in the Alps is small and nimble, and F700GS or F800GS are two of the best.

A 1200GS is good if you want to get out and give it a run on the autobahn.

However, if you ride the twisties, you will be 20km/h to 30 km.h all day long.
Turning radius of a coke can, some pavement actually touches each other as you go around the bend and loop back in the opposite direction.
Speed and hp are not required nor to any great benefit.

A F700GS does really well; lighter and you will be less tired at the end of the day.

200 km a day is a good day, 250 km is a LONG day.

You can rent directly from BMW in Munich too.

Well, yes and no. The 650's and 800's have a lot going for them. I've ridden both and agree that they're nimble enough. But I wouldn't care to spend lots of time in the saddle with either. Running at 100 km/h (60 mph) gets tiring. And not every road is tight twisties. Timmelsjoch, for example:


Even the Stelvio road from the east isn't just hairpins:


The Zillertaler road, for example, does have a lot of tight stuff, and there are other places, too. But there are also relatively simple roads to get from one place to another. Brennerpass is depressingly boring, and Fernpass the same only narrower. I was quite happy to have a bike that would eat those distances or travel on the A12 to get to some of the passes near the Swiss/Italian border.

Uh, 20-30 km/h (12-17 mph) all day? Not quite. In some really tight places may demand it, but, again, there are twisties and there are turns.

Finally, if you've dropped a small fortune on tickets, bikes, etc. and it's non-stop rain, there's no option to say, "well, next week, lads." A bit of fairing has a lot to recommend itself. Bottom line, the RT did well enough for me, and I'm looking forward to doing things on a K1600GT.

BTW, although this is Provence and not the Alps, consider this sprint on a K1600. Jens won't tell me how fast he was going but the lean angle suggests it was a brisk ride...
Mont Ventoux

RBEmerson said:

Well, yes and no. The 650's and 800's have a lot going for them. I've ridden both and agree that they're nimble enough. But I wouldn't care to spend lots of time in the saddle with either. Running at 100 km/h (60 mph) gets tiring. And not every road is tight twisties. Timmelsjoch, for example:


Even the Stelvio road from the east isn't just hairpins:


The Zillertaler road, for example, does have a lot of tight stuff, and there are other places, too. But there are also relatively simple roads to get from one place to another. Brennerpass is depressingly boring, and Fernpass the same only narrower. I was quite happy to have a bike that would eat those distances or travel on the A12 to get to some of the passes near the Swiss/Italian border.

Uh, 20-30 km/h (12-17 mph) all day? Not quite. In some really tight places may demand it, but, again, there are twisties and there are turns.

Finally, if you've dropped a small fortune on tickets, bikes, etc. and it's non-stop rain, there's no option to say, "well, next week, lads." A bit of fairing has a lot to recommend itself. Bottom line, the RT did well enough for me, and I'm looking forward to doing things on a K1600GT.

BTW, although this is Provence and not the Alps, consider this sprint on a K1600. Jens won't tell me how fast he was going but the lean angle suggests it was a brisk ride...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5vJ2BX7Wuio" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Click to expand...

We travelled different roads then.

For those wondering what the heck we're talking about with Stelvio, Timmelsjoch, etc., here are three videos to explain them.

Stelvio - properly Passo dello Stelvio in Italian, Stilfserjoch in German - is in the Italian part of South Tirolia* is a high pass (~9000 ft) considered to be The Pass by many riders. The east road features 48 hairpins (they're numbered). K16Troll's ascent is on a 1200GS. (IMHO he's a bit on the scary side with some of his passing)
Stelvio

Timmelsjoch is a lower pass, and a good warmup for Stelvio. The video starts with the ascent on the Austrian side of the pass; the descent is on the Italian side of the pass. Yes, there are no customs, passport checks, etc. - hurray for the Schengen Treaty that makes this so! Alexander Thiessen's video was my introduction Alpine videos +. At the start of the video, yes, there is a toll booth. The road isn't a freebie. Alexander's riding is a little(!) more conservative than K16Troll's. NTL you'll see some passing that would never fly in the States. It's quite acceptable in much of Europe, not just the Alps. Coming back to the States, I had to sit on myself to keep from doing it.
About the snow... These roads don't open until May or June. Based on the video's published date, my guess is this video was shot sometime in early to mid-June. When I was in the area in early July there wasn't as much snow along the roads, but there's still a lot on the mountain sides. Runoff crossing the roads is common and the interior of tunnels can be equally wet. It all adds to the fun...
Timmelsjoch

Zillertal Höhenstraße (Zill [River] Valley High Road) is a collection of roads along the mountains that overlook the Zill Valley. It passes through one of several large ski areas in the Zillertal region. K16Troll's video is a little puzziling because the stretch up from Hippach (town name) is nothing like what I saw coming towards Hippach. My guess is our guide found another of his wonderful secret roads (<- sarcasm) for the descent. The ride towards Ried Im Zillertal (town name) is the same road I saw. Go figure. Zillertal Höhenstraße is another toll road.
Zillertal Höhenstraße

One last bit of road videos. If the mountain pass roads become boring, try one of the French "balcony" roads. They literally hang off of steep valley walls and don't allow cars to pass in either direction except in pullovers. Think of single track roads with no bailout. If this doesn't pucker your sphincter, nothing will.
Route D7, France

*For those who care about this sort of thing: Süd Tirol (South Tirolia) used to be Austrian. it was handed over, by the British, to Italy after World War I. The Italians call the region Alto Adige. This despite 70% of the population speaks German, roughly 20% speak Italian, and 10% something else. The point here is this is why the same place has two names. For the historical details, consult Wikipedia. The meaning of "Passo" is obvious, "Joch" less so. Literally translated, it's German for "saddle". The jump, based on topography, from there to "pass" should make sense. The German word "Pass" is also used (Fernpass, Brennerpass as examples).

+ Alexander references getting his music from Jamendo.com. This is a great site for free music. The artists are certainly unknown compared to the Allman Brothers, Steppenwolf, and all of the other music memes used in motorcycle videos.
Finding stuff on Jamendo is ...um... challenging (the search engine only uses tags, which are often puzzling at best). I usually do a Google search on Jemendo.com and a style or artist and then use the Jamendo "similar artists" option to drill down through singles and albums. Try "jamendo.com Dickey F" as an example.

ADDED: Most of the YouTube links failed for no obvious reason. They were present and then they weren't. I've reloaded them in the URL form instead.

Yes I too did Passo dello Stelvio and many others that you likely did, but the video below demonstrates the FANTASTIC roads that 80 km/h is a burst for passing...and yes, I was on a R1200GS wethead, but a F700GS would have been more than needed and way lighter and more nimble...(do love the power of the wethead, that can't be beat, in a boxer anyway - and I have a fondness for boxer motors...)

wind noise is present in this video, you might want to turn down your speakers...

took me a little over five minutes to get by the car...

I loved this road... the view was amazing, the turns, the tunnels, well see for yourself

Video is shot in 1080p, so make sure you up your quality setting on Youtube when watching.

https://youtu.be/9yh-QeS70Xo

BTDT - bought a hat instead.

Where was the video shot? The timestamp says this was shot in August, still, no snow anywhere?

Props to the guy you parked next to - he's got my Olympia jacket.

No props to the car in front of you. He showed all the skill of the dimbulb English RV driver I was stuck behind while coming down from the Zillertal Höhenstrasse. Worse, with the driver on the right, how hard could it have been to edge to the right enough to let me by?

As my GIF "movie" shows, I was on a wethead RT. The handling was great. A lot of nay-sayers said the RT would tire me out. I didn't feel that way but the motor was... Get it well into its power curve, it can lift its front end (v. interesting experience for a non-wheelie guy). But anything below 3K; it was flat and nearly useless. That meant a lot of "gear jammin'" to stay on the power. After 1498 km (930 mi) I was very happy to give the bike back.

By comparison, my K1200RS will keep pulling at, and forgive me for dropping to, 1.5K. It's my understanding the GS has a wider usable power band. In retrospect, because we never saw any real rain, the GS would have been the better call. But I found tours where it rained non-stop. Oh thank you no.

Also, coming off a K-bike, no more boxers for me!

Back to "tired"... what left me feeling wrung out, though, was the concentration needed. Between the roads and being in a group ride, that really did wear me down. I almost never do group rides, so I had to play catch-up on the skills of staying on the pace.

RBEmerson said:

BTDT - bought a hat instead.

Where was the video shot? The timestamp says this was shot in August, still, no snow anywhere?

Props to the guy you parked next to - he's got my Olympia jacket.

No props to the car in front of you. He showed all the skill of the dimbulb English RV driver I was stuck behind while coming down from the Zillertal Höhenstrasse. Worse, with the driver on the right, how hard could it have been to edge to the right enough to let me by?

Back to "tired"... what left me feeling wrung out, though, was the concentration needed. Between the roads and being in a group ride, that really did wear me down. I almost never do group rides, so I had to play catch-up on the skills of staying on the pace.

Click to expand...

Location is near Levico Terme, Italy - the town at the end of the road was Lochere, Italy.

Video is shot in 1080p, so don't forget to up your quality setting in youtube.

I was on a Beach's Classic Alpine Tour, this was Day 9 of 14.

I did NOT ride with the group. Well, I did a couple of days, for a couple of hours, but I don't like the pace, nor working to keep with the group, nor the stops they took. Rob and Gretchen are totally good with riders heading off on their own, Beach's provides a GPS with various routes for each day, or you can create your own. However, Rob has great roads, all mapped out, so in my opinion, it was well worth listening to his talk the night before and choose a route based on his recommendation.

So I bailed and rode 80% of the trip on my own, and the rest with one other guy, or one guy and his wife. Never more than two of us, with the understanding that we might go on our own way at any moment. Worked for us. The GS wethead has lots of power at all ranges, but kept it in lower gears and worked with higher RPMs.

In the video, once I got stopped at the one switchback, by the car, I travelled a little slower to give space between he and I. Then I watched for a stretch where I could get by him. This road ended up in this really lovely treed road, that was just fantastic.

nelliott said:

Location is near Levico Terme, Italy - the town at the end of the road was Lochere, Italy.

Click to expand...

Found it - you were almost out the South Tirol region then.

Video is shot in 1080p, so don't forget to up your quality setting in youtube.

Click to expand...

I shoot in 1080p 30fps. The uploads to YouTube are compressed and generally messed over. On a couple of occasions I've put small clips, as zip's, up on Dropbox. It's all very frustrating to spend a lot of time tuning the color, etc., only to see trash on the screen.

I was on a Beach's Classic Alpine Tour, this was Day 9 of 14.

I did NOT ride with the group. Well, I did a couple of days, for a couple of hours, but I don't like the pace, nor working to keep with the group, nor the stops they took. Rob and Gretchen are totally good with riders heading off on their own, Beach's provides a GPS with various routes for each day, or you can create your own. However, Rob has great roads, all mapped out, so in my opinion, it was well worth listening to his talk the night before and choose a route based on his recommendation.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I looked at Beach when researching last year's trip. It seemed a little ...um... doctrinaire about bikes, which put me off. After a week with the RT, I bed to differ on the "horsing around" comment. That was the 3rd or 4th time on a wethead RT (blessing unto Hermy's BMW for be quite willing to turn someone loose for a couple-few hours of demo). It certain didn't get me in the States, and didn't ambush me in the Alps except for the power curve thing. I wasn't a fan of boxers then, and a week of boxer time killed me off for sure. BTW, there was a couple also on an RT. AFAIK they were good with their choice, too. Anyway...

Good news about the GPS! The RT GPS mount will take a Garmin 660. I brought mine along (already has Europe in it) and was glad I did for two reasons. I had some sense of where in the world we were. Edelweiss supplies a map that covers much of middle Europe - not good for finding out how to get from village A to village B. [/facepalm] In the twisties, I dialed it way down to get a sense of what was coming down the road. It was a big help in anticipating what was coming the next couple of minutes.

One of listed stops was Neuschwanstein - Kind Ludwig II's "Disney castle". BTDT Had zero interest in doing the (literally) 3 hour tour again. I loaded up a loop that would have taken about 2 1/2 hours to run. But the guides blew off the castle altogether. Feh. I also built a route to St. Anton (ski area in the Aarlbeg, west of most of the trip's routes). That didn't get used, either, because of the ad-hoc changes. (No great loss as the area is badly overgrown with villas, etc. that weren't there the last time we skied there) NTL, having a GPS for a backup to "where are we" is a big plus.

It's not too hard to tease a good route out of a map, but having a local to find the good stuff is, agreed, a big plus. We had lunches in some very off the beaten path places. They were on the map, of course, but it's hard to know who's good and who's Burgerking with an accent.

So I bailed and rode 80% of the trip on my own, and the rest with one other guy, or one guy and his wife. Never more than two of us, with the understanding that we might go on our own way at any moment. Worked for us. The GS wethead has lots of power at all ranges, but kept it in lower gears and worked with higher RPMs.

Click to expand...

Riding with another bike is usually manageable for me. I ride with a guy on an '07 RT. We use Sena intercoms and it all plays out well. The option to say "see you at the hotel" when someone wants to shop or take tons of pictures is a good thing.

In the video, once I got stopped at the one switchback, by the car, I travelled a little slower to give space between he and I. Then I watched for a stretch where I could get by him. This road ended up in this really lovely treed road, that was just fantastic.

Click to expand...

I saw that. I'd have been just about screaming. As a matter of fact, I did cuss out a similar idiot - in German. Message delivered. Heh, heh, heh...

Was this an "out and back" trip, using the same hotel, or did you change hotels regularly? How many in the group? Where were they from?

There were 19 bikes, plus one two-up on my trip. Two riders were from Indonesia, and one was from Turkey. The rest were from the States. The trips were "out and back" which was fine with me. I have no great fascination with living out of a suitcase unless it's the only option.

RBEmerson said:

Was this an "out and back" trip, using the same hotel, or did you change hotels regularly? How many in the group? Where were they from?

There were 19 bikes, plus one two-up on my trip. Two riders were from Indonesia, and one was from Turkey. The rest were from the States. The trips were "out and back" which was fine with me. I have no great fascination with living out of a suitcase unless it's the only option.

Click to expand...

This was a 14 day out and around the Alps Tour, you can see the route at a high level here... http://www.bmca.com/classic-alpine-adventure.html

If memory serves 12 riders.

Beach's sherpa your luggage and deliver it to your room each day, it is waiting for you when you arrive. A few double overnights in the same hotel, which was a nice break for out and back runs.

Countries included: Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Slovenia

The route book, with alternate routes is sent to you prior to your plan departure to Europe, so you can read up on the alternate routes and history.
Beach's provides lots of great materials for your perusal; prior to your trip.

The GPS unit they give you is pre-loaded with a variety of routes, more than in the "route book".
Fantastic selection of very technical to pretty light and easy routes each day.

They pick you up at the airport and drop you off at the airport for your departure after the tour.

Excellent customer service, and you can rent any BMW you want. You want a K-Bike, you just need to ask Rob, and he will do his best to make that happen for you.

I can't recommend Beach's enough, if you have the $ and want a worry free trip, and don't have the time for detailed planning ahead of time.

Dang. More and more, I'm kicking myself for not digging further into Beach instead of going with Edelweiss. The initial investigation gave me the impression Beach's was more "we know what's best for you" than appears to be the case. Sigh... done is done.

Getting to Munich is no biggie. If I do the trip, I'd be heading there from near Frankfurt (about 5-6 hr drive). Anyway, lots can happen before I can pull the trigger...

Thanks for all of the info!

RBEmerson said:

Dang. More and more, I'm kicking myself for not digging further into Beach instead of going with Edelweiss. The initial investigation gave me the impression Beach's was more "we know what's best for you" than appears to be the case. Sigh... done is done.

Getting to Munich is no biggie. If I do the trip, I'd be heading there from near Frankfurt (about 5-6 hr drive). Anyway, lots can happen before I can pull the trigger...

Thanks for all of the info!

Click to expand...

You are welcome. If I can help with any other questions let me know. I paid the extra to have a room by myself, way worth it!

RBEmerson said:

Edelweiss... at least for me, the group never really gelled. From what I've heard, and what I read in the pre-tour info, there were supposed to be some get acquainted events (including the group picnic that's supposed to be a hallmark of the Edelweiss experience). None of that happened. Everyone was left to sort themselves as best they could. .............................

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This is why I would never go with Edelweiss, Good company just not my cup of tea. What Neil said below is how it has worked on every Beach tour I have been on. New riders generally ride with Rob for a while to get comfortable, then feel confident enough to go off on their own, with all the info and the 2-6 routes every day, or the option to take your own route. The other advantage of Beach's, is there is generally over half of the riders on their 2nd, 6th or 20th tour, and many times others will develop a friendship that lasts the entire tour or beyond. I have a friend from Florida, who is 18 years my senior, that I meet at least once a year in the Smoky's to ride, meet him on tour in '07. He was looking for a little more spirited pace, and Rob Beach suggested he talk to me, we had a great time, even bagged 9 passes out of Arraba, after a heavy fog lifted at 2:30 PM, and were back by dark. He still talks about it to this day, and despite pushing 80 years old, still will out ride most riders in the twisties.

nelliott said:

I did NOT ride with the group. Well, I did a couple of days, for a couple of hours, but I don't like the pace, nor working to keep with the group, nor the stops they took. Rob and Gretchen are totally good with riders heading off on their own, Beach's provides a GPS with various routes for each day, or you can create your own. However, Rob has great roads, all mapped out, so in my opinion, it was well worth listening to his talk the night before and choose a route based on his recommendation.

Click to expand...

RBEmerson said:

I really, really wanted a K1600GT, which is available on some tours. But Edelweiss said "no way!"; I got a '15 R1200RT instead. And two late sign-ups got H-D baggers. Say what???

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As far as bike choice, Rob will get you an RT if you really want one, but 43 years of experience is worth listening to as well. Sounds like you did many of the big passes on your tour, Rob tends to avoid the main roads, for the roads less traveled. I have been on Roads on Beach tours that Global Rider refers to, the small out of the way, NO traffic, local roads that 90% of NA riders will never see. And on these passes, an RT is big. There is very little 60mph stuff on his routes. I ride hard and fast and average about 55kpm most days, It is wonderful and what keeps me going back.

Another aspect is the likely hood that you will have a tip over is much higher than here, in the last 15 years I have had a parking lot tip over maybe 6-8 times, and all but one was in the Alps. It is not that it is dangerous, but you will be stopping to take pictures, eat, for cappuccino etc. numerous times a day, and many of the places you may stop are not nice level places (you are in the mountains after all) so the chances of a misplaced foot are far greater. With an RT and its painted and color matched everything, and the fact that they are BMW fleet bikes every scratch will cost you big $ for damages and a simple slip of the foot can be costly. That is one of the reasons Rob does not have any in his personal fleet. The same tip over with one of Robs bikes will be much cheaper, he will not charge you for a new saddlebag lid for a new scratch, as you likely are just adding to some that may already be there. They want you to go home with just a fond memory of your adventure, not a bill for damages.

RBEmerson said:

But I'm already planning a return to the Alps. This time I'll make my own arrangements.

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After a couple of tour with Beach, I also did my own thing a few times, one was $$ concerns, as we took our 3 boys with us, and my pocketbook was not up to paying for 5 bikes and 6 people with all the benefits the tour brings. And once because the wife had some business in Prague, which we stretched into a 16 day trip. But the wife and I keep going back with Beach's. There is value in the extra cost, so if you have the means give them a shot next time. I have meet at least a dozen people that were on their fist Beach tour after touring with Edelweiss and others, and every single one said they would never go back to anyone else for a MC tour. The fact that 60%-75% of the riders are repeat customers says a lot.

Even looking at this thread, You were lukewarm about your experience, Nelliott and I had an entirely different take away, and can't wait for more.

Happy travels!

nelliott said:

You are welcome. If I can help with any other questions let me know. I paid the extra to have a room by myself, way worth it!

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I had a single room, too. Bunking with a stranger isn't my first choice, Army days, summer camp, and ski club mountain house not withstanding. OTOH, given the hotel was spendy enough without the "hermit charge", my inclination now is to pull up my big boy pants, sing a round of the summer camp song "Turn out the light! Turn out the light, kiss your room mate good night, and turn out the light!", and live with it. And I think Beach's says that if you say you'll accept a roomie and one doesn't show up, no hermit fee. Wonder who I'd have to kill to get that prize. Bwa-hahahahaha!

pffog said:

This is why I would never go with Edelweiss, Good company just not my cup of tea. What Neil said below is how it has worked on every Beach tour I have been on. New riders generally ride with Rob for a while to get comfortable, then feel confident enough to go off on their own, with all the info and the 2-6 routes every day, or the option to take your own route. The other advantage of Beach's, is there is generally over half of the riders on their 2nd, 6th or 20th tour, and many times others will develop a friendship that lasts the entire tour or beyond. I have a friend from Florida, who is 18 years my senior, that I meet at least once a year in the Smoky's to ride, meet him on tour in '07. He was looking for a little more spirited pace, and Rob Beach suggested he talk to me, we had a great time, even bagged 9 passes out of Arraba, after a heavy fog lifted at 2:30 PM, and were back by dark. He still talks about it to this day, and despite pushing 80 years old, still will out ride most riders in the twisties.

Click to expand...

IMNSHO Edelweiss has over-expanded. Beach mentions that they resist over-expansion to avoid diluting their product. Makes sense to me. Now.

I talked with someone who'd done the same Central Alps Tour a year or two before. Like you, he's still in touch with a couple of folks from the trip. The group dynamics is, of course, a gamble; my trip definitely came up snake-eyes.

In retrospect, I wish I'd followed up on one of the DIY routes I pieced together. Oh well.

As far as bike choice, Rob will get you an RT if you really want one, but 43 years of experience is worth listening to as well. Sounds like you did many of the big passes on your tour, Rob tends to avoid the main roads, for the roads less traveled. I have been on Roads on Beach tours that Global Rider refers to, the small out of the way, NO traffic, local roads that 90% of NA riders will never see. And on these passes, an RT is big. There is very little 60mph stuff on his routes. I ride hard and fast and average about 55kpm most days, It is wonderful and what keeps me going back.

Click to expand...

No RT for me! No way, no how. It wasn't handling - I was a little uncertain about that. I have a couple of near-Alpine routes available for testing. The demo RT did well with the turns and, by then, I'd figured out the "keep it above 3K" thing. Better still, it had that clutchless shift feature. I wish the Edelweiss bike had it, too.

I did manage a garage drop for the dumbest of reasons. The group was stopped in a cluster while the guide scouted out a fave road (new house in the way - so much for that). I leaned over to get a catch on the pannier of the GS next to me and... oops! No damage done to anything but my pride. But...! Early on the first or second day, some poor soul (not me!) tipped over 5 bikes in the "barn".

We covered a good mix of roads, including a couple of small-sized gravel stretches. I rode some of that standing. Meh. Ain't no biggie. As I said earlier, I just didn't feel as though I was horsing the bike around. Maybe it's because my K1200RS needs a bit of umph at low speeds; Be there, do that.

Another aspect is the likely hood that you will have a tip over is much higher than here, in the last 15 years I have had a parking lot tip over maybe 6-8 times, and all but one was in the Alps. It is not that it is dangerous, but you will be stopping to take pictures, eat, for cappuccino etc. numerous times a day, and many of the places you may stop are not nice level places (you are in the mountains after all) so the chances of a misplaced foot are far greater. With an RT and its painted and color matched everything, and the fact that they are BMW fleet bikes every scratch will cost you big $ for damages and a simple slip of the foot can be costly. That is one of the reasons Rob does not have any in his personal fleet. The same tip over with one of Robs bikes will be much cheaper, he will not charge you for a new saddlebag lid for a new scratch, as you likely are just adding to some that may already be there. They want you to go home with just a fond memory of your adventure, not a bill for damages.

Click to expand...

See above re: garage drop. I'm a devout believer in "speed is life". I suppose encountering a stopped car in mid-turn could be dicey, but that would be true for anyone. I try hard to keep my head on a swivel and keep good SA going. So far, so good.

My "we are thorough, we are proactive, we are insured" wife insisted on paying for zero deductible. I slept very well, thanks.

After a couple of tour with Beach, I also did my own thing a few times, one was $$ concerns, as we took our 3 boys with us, and my pocketbook was not up to paying for 5 bikes and 6 people with all the benefits the tour brings. And once because the wife had some business in Prague, which we stretched into a 16 day trip. But the wife and I keep going back with Beach's. There is value in the extra cost, so if you have the means give them a shot next time. I have meet at least a dozen people that were on their fist Beach tour after touring with Edelweiss and others, and every single one said they would never go back to anyone else for a MC tour. The fact that 60%-75% of the riders are repeat customers says a lot.

Even looking at this thread, You were lukewarm about your experience, Nelliott and I had an entirely different take away, and can't wait for more.

Happy travels!

Click to expand...

More to come after breakfast.

ADDED: Apparently there's some ambiguity about my comments about the trip. The riding experience was stimulating and added a great deal to my riding skill set. I have zero regrets about being where I was. My problems are with Edelweiss, and the tour aspect of the trip. I very much like the sound of Beach's tours. But... I am very done with high-star hotels. Most of the amenities (pool, etc.) are lost during the day. By the time I get back to the hotel, a shower is enough swimming and sauna. Limited menu Prix Fixe dinners... pass. There are viable alternatives without having to accept the local version of Motel 6.

I still have more homework to do.

RBEmerson said:

Dang. More and more, I'm kicking myself for not digging further into Beach instead of going with Edelweiss. The initial investigation gave me the impression Beach's was more "we know what's best for you" than appears to be the case. Sigh... done is done.
..........................!

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Got a chuckle out of this one as his philosophy is just the opposite. He does have 43 years of experience backing him so he will advise, but not dictate. These are from the Beach website, and I can tell you from experience, they are all true.

"No 7 a.m. reveille nor 10 p.m. taps! No “this is the route for the day and we’ll meet for lunch at Homer’s restaurant at 12:15 sharp!” No regimentation! No “you must!” No “it has to be!” These are tours that are not group tours! Having pioneered Alpine mountain motorcycle touring, the Beachs know that individuals need rest and relaxation; the peace and serenity that come from getting away from organized entertainment and activities; time to be the explorer; time for peaceful reflection in a setting of great natural beauty and spectacular views.

The Beachs stress the joy of individual exploration. By removing the obstacles and minimizing the problems, we provide an exceptional and memorable experience for the first time visitor as well as the experienced international tourer."

Beach's on requiring group riding:
"Absolutely not. Our function is to handle details, advise, suggest, but not herd. We do not like regimentation and do not impose it on tour members. Each tour member is free to choose his/her own daily riding companions, routing, and time schedule."

I describe their set up as highly organized, yet as a rider you have complete autonomy.. It sounds counter intuitive, but they make it work flawlessly.

As for bike selection, I too believe that smaller is better. On the trip I did myself, when my wife had business in Prague, we rode 2 up with all our luggage on an F700GS! And I passed many a solo rider in the mountains!

Many people don't realize the F700GS has of the HIGHEST payload ratings in the BMW line! Add 55-60 miles per gallon when flogging it around the mountains saves $$ when using that expensive European fuel.

It was the opening part of the home page that lost me. It came off as doctrinaire enough to encourage me to move on. Unfortunately for me, I saw Edelweiss with beer goggles. I now think they're over-extended and losing track of the important details. But thinking they were what most people remember from a few years (or more) back, I went with them. Done is done.

We're going to go roundy round on bike choices. About the only types of BMW I haven't ridden are the S', LT's, and the 1200GS' (even had a chance to sample one of the bikes with the Earles fork front suspension). Most of this has been either loaners (tried a Triumph Thunderbird that way - never again!) or the occasional demos (typically 50-100 miles each, occasionally more). For example, I see the appeal of the F700GS. I had a lot of fun with it over the week I had it. It's just not my bike. Ride your own ride and all that.

At the risk of repeating, or bragging on myself, I've spent enough time in Germany to understand much of the ins and outs of German life. On a really good day, my German is good enough that people think I'm from Holland, not an "Ami". (silly them) My wife (she's German) and I have some experience with many places where German is spoken. I want to be clear on this: I do not count myself as a local. All of that being said, my point is any Alps tour is, for me, not an "OMG! I'm in Europe and the Alps! OMG!" experience. It's the riding that's novel; the rest has some degree of familiarity or I can usually put it into context. And this means I come to tours or trips with a different perspective.

But enough about me...

RBEmerson said:

It was the opening part of the home page that lost me. It came off as doctrinaire enough to encourage me to move on. Unfortunately for me, I saw Edelweiss with beer goggles. I now think they're over-extended and losing track of the important details. But thinking they were what most people remember from a few years (or more) back, I went with them. Done is done.

We're going to go roundy round on bike choices. About the only types of BMW I haven't ridden are the S', LT's, and the 1200GS' (even had a chance to sample one of the bikes with the Earles fork front suspension). Most of this has been either loaners (tried a Triumph Thunderbird that way - never again!) or the occasional demos (typically 50-100 miles each, occasionally more). For example, I see the appeal of the F700GS. I had a lot of fun with it over the week I had it. It's just not my bike. Ride your own ride and all that.

At the risk of repeating, or bragging on myself, I've spent enough time in Germany to understand much of the ins and outs of German life. On a really good day, my German is good enough that people think I'm from Holland, not an "Ami". (silly them) My wife (she's German) and I have some experience with many places where German is spoken. I want to be clear on this: I do not count myself as a local. All of that being said, my point is any Alps tour is, for me, not an "OMG! I'm in Europe and the Alps! OMG!" experience. It's the riding that's novel; the rest has some degree of familiarity or I can usually put it into context. And this means I come to tours or trips with a different perspective.

But enough about me...

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I think you should get the bike you want, and then tell us after your spend two weeks on tiny roads, going slow, extremely tight corners and passing trucks (coming by you head on) on a one lane road/track with no where to go.

If you do it with a bike bike and love it, more power to you!
Take some pictures and videos.

The R1200GS was really nice, and I may even do the same bike again for my next tour, although I know the F700GS is more than one needs. and it certainly would be less tiring at the end of the day. But I am used to fully linked brakes, on a 1200 front end; my ride in Canada is a 2008 R1200RT.

My wife is German, from Germany, and we go every two years on average, visit relatives and do some travelling. I still LOVE Europe. And, in my opinion, touring the Alps on a motorcycle is the absolute BEST WAY to do it!

Let us know how you like it, and let Rob now we recommended them to you!

I'm just pondering booking now for June 2018, to ensure I have a spot. (Can change the timing, but can't get in if it is full!)

At the end of a week I knew the RT quite well. Keep the revs up, lean the bike over, and it went like it was on rails. At 10 mph as well as 80+. Head on a swivel, keep SA going, speed is life, lean out when slow, lean in when fast. I just happen to now not like boxers. There it is.

I just went back over my GPS data from the trip, looking at the tracks as well as the speed/altitude graph, and summary. For the 900+ miles, the average speed was about 34 mph. The highest average was on "Stelvio day", which seems counter-intuitive. The average was boosted by the high speed run through the Engadin region. One rider claimed 230 km/hr (140+ mph) in places. I stuck with 130 km/hr (about 80), the Swiss national autobahn limit (open secondary roads are less). Swiss speeding fines can be horrendous. By that point I'd been nailed by a radar camera on Austrian A12 (autobahn), doing 10 km/hr over the posted limit. (Having no front plate, there's nothing to ID the bike) Considered me having a dose of speed religion.

For anyone with Garmin's Basecamp and European maps, I'll be happy to make the track data available.

Much to my annoyance, the people on the trip who had cameras never shared any video, save for one clip with a camera looking at forks, front wheel, and pavement - rushing wind for the soundtrack.

I now have my camera. For the curious, see the following on my channel: https://youtu.be/aSHvorcMMZQ and https://youtu.be/xVDnobcWuRA Hardly great movie-making or riding. At least the music's not too bad. For anyone wanting to know about the Sena Prism camera, there they are. One comment: both videos were processed to get rid of the "fisheye" effect. The Prism, like most cameras, will deliver a noticeable fisheye at the 130 deg. setting. But I digress...

An interview with Rob Beach.

http://www.bmca.com/articles/150_and_counting.pdf

Great thanks!