Best defense for getting ticketed at 85 in a 65 mph zone in Connecticut today

Let just move on! Enough popcorn reading.

ClassicVW said:

[...] It's 65 not to annoy you. It's 65 because the road was probably built 60 years ago and not engineered for 85MPH. [...]

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See, I think that is factually wrong. Most speed limits in this country are political, without any technical or other rational basis. Design speeds (in flat country) were already at the 100 mph level in the 1930s. For an interesting view on this see for example https://www.lewrockwell.com/2011/10/eric-peters/its-not-the-cars-or-the-roads-that-cant-handle-90-mph/.

So from the article you referred to...

Well, actually, it’s modern drivers that can’t handle 80 or 90.

Modern drivers who don’t use their mirrors – or do, but just don’t care (and absolutely won’t move over). Who consider it their American Idol–watching, Football-worshipping, god-given right to park their car in the left lane, set the cruise control at precisely the posted speed limit – and ignore whatever’s going on behind them.

Thus, we have the problem of speed variance.

It’s not so much that some cars are traveling at higher rates of speed; that isn’t a problem if people maintain lane discipline – and pay attention. If slower-moving drivers scan their mirrors and anticipate the need to move over – and do so – before the overtaking car is forced to jam on his brakes. Speed variance only becomes a problem when slower-moving drivers refuse to yield, or wait until an overtaking car is right behind them before they even put on their signal – causing faster-moving traffic to decelerate suddenly or take evasive action to get around the slow-mover.

Cars bunching up and up jockeying for position is what creates the safety hazard; not some cars moving at a higher rate of speed than others.

If the left lane was understood to be for passing only; if American drivers could be taught to reflexively defer to overtaking traffic rather than viewing such as a threat to their personal space and doing all in their power to impede it – well, then our speed limits could be real limits and we could drive faster, legally, in 2012 than people did back in 1960.

Don’t look for it to happen anytime soon.

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I just shake my head when people who probably live in less populated areas make the assumption that the left lane can be open for others to pass in. In the Seattle area, no lanes are open. There's traffic filling every lane except at about 2 am in the morning. If you're lucky, you might see the traffic moving at 70 mph in all the lanes. But so often, you see the traffic at a crawl in all the lanes.

So as I saw on another post, if you're being passed, you're going to slow. If you're passing everyone else, you're going to fast. And if you're staying with everyone else, you probably aren't pissing off other drivers around you and making a bad name for motorcyclists.

BMW car drivers have a reputation among some other drivers of acting like they own the road, that their cars are made for going much faster and so it is their right to do so. It's not a good reputation to seek.

Chris

Gruesome, I disagree. As a traffic LEO I have some experience in traffic planning, if not done by myself, I was a part of engineering studies and planning where it was possible to expand a roadway here and there. At least here where I live in my part of the Northeast, a few of the highways date back to the 1920s. What was the average travel speed of a Model T? The highways sure weren't engineered for 70MPH. Speed limits are 50. The cities just didn't sprout up in the past 30 or so years, like in some sun belt states where roads could be designed with modern vehicles in mind with banked curves and banked exits,- they've been cities since the 1800s. Urban encroachment makes it nearly impossible to widen some highways and to make exits safer. 90 or 120 degree sudden sharp exits are common, and the posted exit speed limit is 15. Yes 15. A study was recently done to examine what it would cost to add just one lane in each direction to a highway's bottleneck for only a two mile stretch and the cost was $200 Million, mostly due to the businesses along that stretch and the utilities that would have to be moved. Needless to say, it's not getting done.

I totally agree. We have the same situation here in Seattle. It's not that the cities and roads were built that far back, but the population has grown so much and there's no way to widen the roads. Heck, they can't even keep the pavement repaired on what is already here.

Every summer we get riders who think they are fully safe on their bikes doing whatever speed they want to do. Some of them end up putting their bikes into the front seats of cars they hit because they were going so fast.

But one could say they knew they could handle those speeds safely. And their bikes were made for that speed. And the speed limit for the road is out of date. And oh yes, my lawyer will get me off the ticket.

I wonder if they woke up that morning knowing they would die and take others with them?

daboo said:

So from the article you referred to...

I just shake my head when people who probably live in less populated areas make the assumption that the left lane can be open for others to pass in. In the Seattle area, no lanes are open. There's traffic filling every lane except at about 2 am in the morning. If you're lucky, you might see the traffic moving at 70 mph in all the lanes. But so often, you see the traffic at a crawl in all the lanes.

Chris

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Which explains why I will go 100 or more miles out of my way to avoid the place. I give the area a B for courtesy but an F for roadway infrastructure. Too many chances per mile to be hurt or killed.

Circumstances matter

I have loved reading the comments here. Some of you have taken the position that any violation of any law is somehow a significant violation of the "social contract" and that the "offender" should accept the guilt and pay up. Of course others have pointed out that with all the laws we have that everyone is at some time an offender.

Others have taken the "engineering approach" to speeds and violators. Pointing out that some roads are in poor shape and poorly engineered for high speeds is nothing new. Those of you who were at the BMWMOA in Bloomsburg will recall that many of the great curvy roads there had just had a coating of tar/gravel and that traveling the speed limit was dangerous. I do not lack intelligence and I am good at noting road/traffic conditions.

None of my violations have been in circumstances that would in any way endanger public safety or my safety. The last ticket I received was on a stretch of 74 / I-74 in NC. You cannot tell what part is the new interstate and which parts are still classified as non-interstate. I got a ticket for 70 in a 55. A week later that stretch of road was a 70 MPH zone; but while it was still posted at 55, the local police were having a field day.

I will leave soon for the 100 years of BMW events at Laguna Seca. I am pretty certain that some of those Texas roads will see me hitting 100.

I have over a million miles on BMWs and have traveled all the states and most of N. Africa and Europe on a BMW /2. My only incidents were with a Simca taxi in Morocco [he ran a stop sign and my Norton sliced him in half while throwing me in to the shrubbery. I nearly lost my thumb] and coming around a curve BELOW the speed limit on the BRP outside of Little Switzerland when I encountered the remains of a rock slide which caused me to slide off the mountain on my R100RT.

Good luck to all of you while riding.

I've been a DA in Alaska for 25 years. Telling the truth always works best - admit you were speeding. But you can also highlight your positives. Say you are ordinarily a safe rider and haven't gotten a speeding ticket in 30 years. If you were riding with all your gear (AGATT), make sure the officer confirms that to the court. Make sure the court knows you were riding a quiet BWM. Say you were trapped in the left lane, your exit came up sooner than expected, and you believed your safest course of action was to bump it up and get ahead of the traffic to your right than to slow down and let someone behind you run over you (which sounds like what you did). Be respectful of the officer, which I'm sure you were. Offer to perform 40 hours of community work service to a worthy charity instead of paying a fine that is only going to raise your insurance rates. Or offer to make a donation of twice the fine amount to the boy scouts or girl scouts in the local area.

I got another ticket 111 in an 80 zone

I was coming back from Laguna Seca after the BMW 100 Year celebration. The cruise control on the R1200RT will not set at a speed above 111; so that was what I was running. I was coming across the New Mexico desert when I got nailed. The officer was great. No lectures. No wasted time. "Here is your citation. Drive safely."

I decided to stop at a roadside tourist attraction/Indian souvenir/ ticky tacky shop. I bought some jewelry for my wife and for my son's girlfriend. The owner and his wife asked where I had been, where I was going,etc. and if I had enjoyed New Mexico. I told them about the ticket. The owner asked me if he could see it. I retrieved it from my bike and he said, "I know this trooper. Give me your ticket." I gave it to him along with a $100 bill. He smiled and said, "I see this is not your first rodeo." I gave him my card and told him to let me know when everything was taken care of. I got his email Monday. All is good in New Mexico. Being pleasant to officers and the people you meet pays dividends.

JDOCKERY132445 said:

I was coming back from Laguna Seca after the BMW 100 Year celebration. The cruise control on the R1200RT will not set at a speed above 111; so that was what I was running. I was coming across the New Mexico desert when I got nailed. The officer was great. No lectures. No wasted time. "Here is your citation. Drive safely."

I decided to stop at a roadside tourist attraction/Indian souvenir/ ticky tacky shop. I bought some jewelry for my wife and for my son's girlfriend. The owner and his wife asked where I had been, where I was going,etc. and if I had enjoyed New Mexico. I told them about the ticket. The owner asked me if he could see it. I retrieved it from my bike and he said, "I know this trooper. Give me your ticket." I gave it to him along with a $100 bill. He smiled and said, "I see this is not your first rodeo." I gave him my card and told him to let me know when everything was taken care of. I got his email Monday. All is good in New Mexico. Being pleasant to officers and the people you meet pays dividends.

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So you intentionally set your cruise at 31 MPH over the legal limit for law-abiding drivers, flying down the road ("safely") at 111 MPH.

You get caught and cited; then 'bribe' you way out of it for $100.

And proud of it.

Interesting set of ethics.

It's unfortunate they limit the cruise to 111.

I am just kidding. Who in their right mind would want to ride consistently over 90 anyway.

I know, I know, probably lots of people on this forum....

Carry on...

Rich said:

It's unfortunate they limit the cruise to 111.

I am just kidding. Who in their right mind would want to ride consistently over 90 anyway.

I know, I know, probably lots of people on this forum....

Carry on...

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Got a chuckle out of that one!

Interesting that BMW settled on 111 MPH? Must convert to something more 'rounded off' in metrics.

Statistically, distracted driving has over-taken DWI as the number two cause of traffic fatalities, relegating drunk driving down to the Bronze medal.

But the 'Gold standard' of fatal accidents still belongs to speeding.

Confession. I speed. Sometimes. But only a few mph over the limit. Usually less than 5. This fits with the flow of traffic. Here in west Texas I try to stay less than +4 because that is ticket territory.

But, I also know that 15 or more over is prima facia reckless driving in most states. Which means that one unhappy officer can cite me big time instead of the kind reduced speed ticket.

Even a good traffic court lawyer whose "office" is his cell phone and the bench in the lobby at city hall (yes I know a few of these guys, I used to work at City Hall) can have a problem with a reckless driving charge.

PGlaves said:

Confession. I speed. Sometimes. But only a few mph over the limit. Usually less than 5. This fits with the flow of traffic. Here in west Texas I try to stay less than +4 because that is ticket territory.

But, I also know that 15 or more over is prima facia reckless driving in most states. Which means that one unhappy officer can cite me big time instead of the kind reduced speed ticket.

Even a good traffic court lawyer whose "office" is his cell phone and the bench in the lobby at city hall (yes I know a few of these guys, I used to work at City Hall) can have a problem with a reckless driving charge.

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Most speed limits are set too low, as traffic signals, street design and reduced barriers to visibility have made most roads in good-repair capable of tolerating a modest bump in MPH.

Problem is human nature: no matter what speed limit is set, too many motorists have the urge to keep 'pushing the envelope.' That doesn't sound like how you are operating, Paul.

Several MPH over the limit is no sin in the eyes of most LEO's, with the exception of those who consider it a revenue stream for their village (shame!). Not unusual to find me @ 5 PMH over in most scenarios, and up to 7 over on wide-open stretches of highway. I just finished a two-wheeled run from WI to the Pacific Ocean and back this August (5,760 mi. in 15 days) and never irritated a single trooper/deputy with that formula.

I also "keep up with traffic" on busy stretches of, for example, the Illinois Tri-State or I-80, where survival on a motorcycle depends on smoothly operating with traffic, instead of obstructing it.

But speed is still the number 1 killer on our roadways, and any "devil may care" rider who goes ripping down a highway he/she thinks they own at 100+ MPH because he/she operates a high-performance bike and doesn't mind keeping a shady lawyer in six figures is tempting fate.

Fate (the root word of fatal) has a way of catching up with high-profile risk takers, sooner or later.

JDOCKERY132445 said:

I was coming back from Laguna Seca after the BMW 100 Year celebration. The cruise control on the R1200RT will not set at a speed above 111; so that was what I was running. I was coming across the New Mexico desert when I got nailed. The officer was great. No lectures. No wasted time. "Here is your citation. Drive safely."

I decided to stop at a roadside tourist attraction/Indian souvenir/ ticky tacky shop. I bought some jewelry for my wife and for my son's girlfriend. The owner and his wife asked where I had been, where I was going,etc. and if I had enjoyed New Mexico. I told them about the ticket. The owner asked me if he could see it. I retrieved it from my bike and he said, "I know this trooper. Give me your ticket." I gave it to him along with a $100 bill. He smiled and said, "I see this is not your first rodeo." I gave him my card and told him to let me know when everything was taken care of. I got his email Monday. All is good in New Mexico. Being pleasant to officers and the people you meet pays dividends.

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Gentleman turns to another and says, "Yes, I remember that statement...he was a fast one, but all that experience and his ultimate riding skills..." at some funeral home somewhere.

Little over year ago, gentleman riding out front of me mile or so with granddaughter as passenger. Beautiful clear day, little to no traffic, out on country section of 4-lane highway, with trees 1/4 miles or more away from roadway between Lafayette and Logansport, Indiana...he was over the limit....on a straight section, crosses a small bridge and WHAM...farmer's dog runs out from "no where"...rider hits it...kills him and injures child. Was speed a factor? Was rider ready for ANYTHING? Was he riding safe? No one can know what the next 100 feet or 10,000 miles will bring...everyone knows what they should do to be best prepared for WHATEVER....good lawyers or imperfect system are not part of that preparedness.

Learned a long time ago that I can only control what I do as hard as that is to accept.
What you do is your business and choices as long as it doesn't impact me. And I don't buy in to it impacts all of us stance...sorry

Riding motorcycles,bicycles, and just about any activity presents risks. One could fall in the garage trying to put a sidestand down and suffer life threatening injuries. Rarer than a fast moving sudden stop, but you get the point.

Have sped, have not sped, have been ticketed for 9 over on a low volume two lane stretch that upped the limit one month later.

Now seeing the 65 sign just makes me chuckle of what was illegal a few years back is now OK. I took defensive driving and moved on. He really wanted the blonde that turned in front of me and disappeared,his words, but I was "good enough".

Typically within 7 of the posted limit when out on the open road, regardless of state borders along same stretch of US Highway that is 75 on one side of the river, but drops to 55-60 on the other that is only a legislative decision...not by design of road.

We got stopped leaving Arkansas a few years back pushing the envelope to get ahead of a blue norther gaining on us...the LEO just advised H she was about a half hour shy of the land of higher limits and be careful leaving his state.All good
My speedos are all at least 5 mph off, so doing 75 indicated has me doing the posted typically. Doing indicated speed has me getting run up on and passed.

TX has the fastest posted speed limit stretch of road in the US nearby (85) on SH 130 paralleling I-35 . I have run it several times in daytime...not happening on a bike at night as there is a feral hog issue on it's southern end. Sense of speed goes neutral after a while to me. Seems wrong as you pass the trooper cruising 8 under for whatever reason they do that...but he gets passed and I just give a little wave. Who's creating an unsafe environment in the passing lane

Yes, speed is a factor in most highway fatalities/injuries and over 25 in most locales will cause you some issues if caught, but its not my place to make my views or what I do make your choices different.

It isn't just safety: you burn more fuel and wear out tires sooner at higher speeds. And don't forget insurance rates: they tend to go up as you collect speeding tickets. There are reasons besides safety for keeping speeds reasonable (near the posted speed limit).

From the Dunlop web site: To obtain the best mileage from your motorcycle tires, observe the following guidelines: obey the speed limit; avoid quick acceleration and hard braking; maintain recommended tire pressures; and do not overload your bike or tow a trailer.

Harry

AKsuited said:

It isn't just safety: you burn more fuel and wear out tires sooner at higher speeds. And don't forget insurance rates: they tend to go up as you collect speeding tickets. There are reasons besides safety for keeping speeds reasonable (near the posted speed limit).

From the Dunlop web site: To obtain the best mileage from your motorcycle tires, observe the following guidelines: obey the speed limit; avoid quick acceleration and hard braking; maintain recommended tire pressures; and do not overload your bike or tow a trailer.

Harry

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Obey the speed limit from a tire manufacturer? That is a open ended directive for tire wear.
Like saying don't eat too much...depends on how big a fella you are

We run V rated tires....rated for way higher speeds than we run. Not sure the tires know if we are in a 55 or a 70 zone.

You running Dunlops on that GS?

henzilla said:

You running Dunlops on that GS?

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No, Dunlop was the first hit on my Google search.

It stands to reason that trying to push a bike through 100 mph air resistance will wear out a rear tire quicker than through 60 mph air resistance. That's the biggest reason it takes much more power to go very fast. And bikes are notoriously non-aerodynamic, have more drag.

I just don't see the point of going very fast.

Harry

AKsuited said:

No, Dunlop was the first hit on my Google search.

It stands to reason that trying to push a bike through 100 mph air resistance will wear out a rear tire quicker than through 60 mph air resistance. That's the biggest reason it takes much more power to go very fast. And bikes are notoriously non-aerodynamic, have more drag.

I just don't see the point of going very fast.

Harry

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On this "stage" point is so you can type about it and all the other "maverick" behavior...just like sitting around camp fire when a kid....makes one feel they are unique...in their mind.