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Thread: Pairing helmet 2

  1. #1

    Pairing helmet 2

    2016 R1200RT
    I have the Sena 20S dual system. I was trying to pair the second helmet (passenger). On the bike pairing screen, it says "not possible". Has anyone paired a set of dual 20S headsets to their bike? The manual says something about needing to be BMW headsets. With that said, is it true I cannot pair the second Sena? Thank you for your reply

  2. #2
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick1234 View Post
    2016 R1200RT
    I have the Sena 20S dual system. I was trying to pair the second helmet (passenger). On the bike pairing screen, it says "not possible". Has anyone paired a set of dual 20S headsets to their bike? The manual says something about needing to be BMW headsets. With that said, is it true I cannot pair the second Sena? Thank you for your reply
    I am looking at the Audio System and Pairing Manual. Page 50 shows the procedure for pairing two helmets (and more complex combinations are also described). You must follow the instructions exactly.

    It looks to me like the bike needs you to pair helmet 1 and then switch it off (power down) before turning the power on in Helmet 2. Seems only one communicator at a time can be turned on during the period the bike is searching for another bluetooth device. Seems reasonable, as this prevents confusion.

    The procedure given is for BMW / Cardo helmet units, so you may need to "transpose" the button presses the manual gives to the equivalent and proper ones for your Sena units.

    Give the procedure a careful read and follow it exactly.
    Last edited by BMW Triumphant; 03-24-2016 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Added reference to Sena buttons
    Ed
    2015 R1200RT; 2011 R1200RT RIP; 2000 Triumph 900 (sold)
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  3. #3
    Registered User c4golf's Avatar
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    Has to be the BMW communicators. You can't pair any other brand to helmet 2. Sena can be connected to helmet 1 or to themselves for music sharing but not to the bikes #2.
    Tim C
    2016 K1600GTL
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  4. #4
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Quote Originally Posted by c4golf View Post
    Has to be the BMW communicators. You can't pair any other brand to helmet 2. Sena can be connected to helmet 1 or to themselves for music sharing but not to the bikes #2.
    Do you have some reason for thinking this? Something from BMW, or Sena, or Cardo?

    I can say this: Cardo made a change on how to pair two items to a G9 last year. Changed the long form manual but not the short form Quick Reference sheet. But, that was for connecting two things to the communicator, likely selects radio 2 to pair on that channel. That may say unless Sena does the same, you can't pair it. I had to call Cardo to establish this. Then, I could pair two things to the Cardo.

    Test: unpair the bike and all communicators. Pair a Sena with Helmet 2 selected on the bike. Should pair. If it does, it will show that Sena must somehow allow you to choose a scond radio selection in order to pair with the BMW Audio System as Cardo does.

    This likely could all be cleared up if only BMW and Cardo would explain what is actually happening!

    Very frustrating.
    Ed
    2015 R1200RT; 2011 R1200RT RIP; 2000 Triumph 900 (sold)
    http://triumphantsblog.blogspot.ca/

  5. #5
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Quote Originally Posted by c4golf View Post
    Has to be the BMW communicators. You can't pair any other brand to helmet 2. Sena can be connected to helmet 1 or to themselves for music sharing but not to the bikes #2.

    Just thought of something:

    Generally, when pairing, the bike, Helmet 1, and Helmet 2 are very close to each other. The BMW Audio manual specifically requires the pairing on all 3 devices be cleared, and only the bike and Helmet 1 be powered up for pairing, then only Helmet 2 and the bike be powered up for pairing. Once the pairing is done, then it is appropriate to power up both helmets. Just not during pairing, as the "discovery" process will get confused.

    I do hope it is this simple. Please give it a try and let us know how it turned out.
    Ed
    2015 R1200RT; 2011 R1200RT RIP; 2000 Triumph 900 (sold)
    http://triumphantsblog.blogspot.ca/

  6. #6
    Registered User c4golf's Avatar
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    I have a 13 K1600. Unless something has changed since then (I doubt it) Only BMW comms will pair as helmet 2. Something like proprietary software or something. I had a Sena that I used for a year or so and nothing would connect to helmet 2.
    Tim C
    2016 K1600GTL
    Matte Ocean Blue

  7. #7
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Quote Originally Posted by c4golf View Post
    I have a 13 K1600. Unless something has changed since then (I doubt it) Only BMW comms will pair as helmet 2. Something like proprietary software or something. I had a Sena that I used for a year or so and nothing would connect to helmet 2.
    There is really no such thing as BMW comms. The helmet electronics are made by Cardo. Two different engineering companies. The Cardo stuff has to pair using Bluetooth standards. Bluetooth pairing is according to standards not laid down by BMW or Cardo. Cardo can pair with various GPS systems and cellphones. This applies to either of the Cardo's two radios. They comply with Bluetooth standards. They have to work with many other devices than BMW bikes.

    I have never seen a BMW statement that says their bikes only work with Schuberth collars with Cardo electronics. I have the Cardo G9 and it was a bitch to get pairing until I carefully turned off all bluetooth transmitters, including my Fitbit (for consistency). Then, pairing went normally. After pairing, the devices can be operated normally because they exchange handshakes differently than they do during pairing.

    There is no reason for me to believe that BMW has a proprietary method of pairing with just Helmet 2.

    I don't have a Sena to test with pairing to Helmet 2 on the bike. But, I do know that pairing with any device to the bike gets confused if you forget to turn off a second nearby helmet, your cellphone, your wife's cellphone in the house next to the garage, and so forth. And, turning off the bike when trying to pair the Nav V to the helmet.

    I strongly suspect there is a simple procedural issue here and not a Bluetooth standards corruption (tweak) issue.
    Ed
    2015 R1200RT; 2011 R1200RT RIP; 2000 Triumph 900 (sold)
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  8. #8
    Registered User lkraus's Avatar
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    From the 2010 BMW Audio Manual, p42,
    "Two BMW communication systems with Bluetooth standard 2.0 are required if both rider's helmet and passenger's helmet are to be paired to the audio system."

    From the 2013(onward) BMW Audio Manual, p44:
    "Audio system with 2 helmets
    Requirements
    - Two helmets with BMW
    Motorrad communication
    system with Bluetooth 2.0
    or higher.

    BMW is using a proprietary method (made by Cardo to BMW specs) that is unique to it's audio system and communicators. It is fully compatible with Bluetooth standards, but that does not prevent BMW from making their own enhancements. The audio system does work with any Bluetooth 2.0 headset, but connecting two at a time is only possible using BMW communicators. Try searching for something like " multiple pairing Bluetooth" - you find lots of folks trying to pair multiple speakers simultaneously, with no success unless they are using units designed to work together. It's not a required Bluetooth function. Try it, and you will find that if you can get a second unit to connect, the first unit has disconnected.

    No one has reported simultaneously using two communicators of any other brand (including Cardo) with the BMW audio system. The closest you can come is something like the Sena music sharing method which pairs one head set to the audio system and the second unit to the first.
    Last edited by lkraus; 03-25-2016 at 04:31 AM.
    Larry
    2006 R1200RT

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by lkraus View Post

    BMW is using a proprietary method (made by Cardo to BMW specs) that is unique to it's audio system and communicators. It is fully compatible with Bluetooth standards, but that does not prevent BMW from making their own enhancements. The audio system does work with any Bluetooth 2.0 headset, but connecting two at a time is only possible using BMW communicators. Try searching for something like " multiple pairing Bluetooth" - you find lots of folks trying to pair multiple speakers simultaneously, with no success unless they are using units designed to work together. It's not a required Bluetooth function. Try it, and you will find that if you can get a second unit to connect, the first unit has disconnected.
    Now, isn't that special.
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    Registered User lirider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkraus View Post
    No one has reported simultaneously using two communicators of any other brand (including Cardo) with the BMW audio system. The closest you can come is something like the Sena music sharing method which pairs one head set to the audio system and the second unit to the first.
    My Cardo G9x can also "share" music with a second headset. Seems to work reasonably well although my wife doesn't really like it (would rather just have it in intercom mode).
    2016 BMW R1200RT
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  11. #11
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Some of those enhancements ...

    Quote Originally Posted by lkraus View Post
    From the 2010 BMW Audio Manual, p42,

    snip

    BMW is using a proprietary method (made by Cardo to BMW specs) that is unique to it's audio system and communicators. It is fully compatible with Bluetooth standards, but that does not prevent BMW from making their own enhancements.


    snip


    snip

    The audio system does work with any Bluetooth 2.0 headset, but connecting two at a time is only possible using BMW communicators. Try searching for something like " multiple pairing Bluetooth" - you find lots of folks trying to pair multiple speakers simultaneously, with no success unless they are using units designed to work together. It's not a required Bluetooth function. Try it, and you will find that if you can get a second unit to connect, the first unit has disconnected.

    No one has reported simultaneously using two communicators of any other brand (including Cardo) with the BMW audio system. The closest you can come is something like the Sena music sharing method which pairs one head set to the audio system and the second unit to the first.

    From my manual's back page, it is the July 2014, 2.1 th edition:

    P17: the multicontroller can be used to adjust volume only if a BMW communications system is connected. [I can confirm that a Cardo G9 does not permit use of the multicontroller to adjust volume.]

    P18: apparently, the mute button switches the BMW communicator(s) to intercom mode. [See P40 comment for more on this.]

    P32: [not Bluetooth] says an iPhone can be used as if it were an iPod, but the "telephone functions are deactivated" ! [This is certainly not an enhancement and one of many reasons to use a memory stick, not an iPod which I have nor an iPhone which I do not have as a source for music.]

    P37: Wording suggesting requirements for pairing include Bluetooth 2.0, A2DP profile [for music], and a not very emphasized need for all other bluetooth devices, including phones and nav systems to be turned off during pairing. [I can confirm this has caused me difficulties until I obeyed.]

    P38: At top left, "Please consult the operating instructions for your communication system." [Aha! Marketing missed the chance to insert BMW Communicator! Was this the engineering department trying to hint other communicators could be used?]

    P39: The results of an attempt to pair are listed as Successful \ Not Possible \ Unsuccessful. Not possible suggests that Helmet 1 must be paired before Helmet 2 [I missed this before; only have one communicator] and that BMW communicator phrase is also there. [Very difficult to understand why BMW would allow a Cardo G9 to work or a Sena as Helmet 1 and deny a second such unit to be paired.


    P39: Notes the BMW Communicator Helmet 1 music volume can be controlled by the multicontroller but not Helmet 2's volume. [Sort of makes sense.]

    P40: Explains that the ON button mutes music, turns on Intercom so rider and passenger can talk, then pressed again allows music back on. [Makes sense. Not relevant to me, but will be relevant to many others.]

    P42: Explicitly states "other systems can be used but...BMW Mottorad cannot guarantee flawless operation" and goes on to list the requirements for other systems being used together.

    But, an explicit statement, finally, that rider and passenger communicators must be BMW and "other-make communications systems cannot be used in this case." [I missed this in prior readings of the manual.]

    P76: Discusses pairing Audio System to single helmet, helmet to Nav, Nav to Cellphone. [I have read several times that the Nav V already connects to the Audio System by wires in the GPS prep option. I believe this is true only to use the multicontroller wheel to get certain GPS pages to display, not to pass through GPS audio navigation prompts.]




    P37: contains the wording suggesting the need for two BMW communicators [as was reported by ikraus]

    The phrase BMW communication system with Bluetooth standard 2.0 is used frequently in the manual. I have previously believed this wording was mostly marketing attempting to push their BMW product but assumed the technically important part was the Bluetooth standard 2.0 words. I may have been very naive. It is disrespectful of BMW to not make clear what they have done to limit functionality to their own system. They could have at least made note of this being a feature, an enhancement you get when you buy the Schuberth helmet and communicator collar that is unavailable with other communicators.


    The Important Part:

    The fact that the BMW Audio System has these ridiculous limitations may not in fact be all that limiting.

    If you have a need for rider and passenger communication and want music for each as well, you may be able to do this if the passenger has their own cellphone paired to their helmet. The advantage is the rider listens to Celtic and stays awake while the passenger listens to their choice of music at their choice of volume. The trick is to consult your brand of communicator's manual, which is unlikely to mention the BMW Audio System at all.
    Ed
    2015 R1200RT; 2011 R1200RT RIP; 2000 Triumph 900 (sold)
    http://triumphantsblog.blogspot.ca/

  12. #12
    Registered User lkraus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lirider View Post
    My Cardo G9x can also "share" music with a second headset. Seems to work reasonably well although my wife doesn't really like it (would rather just have it in intercom mode).
    That's my wife's preference as well. She listens to her own tunes from her smartphone.
    Larry
    2006 R1200RT

  13. #13
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
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    If true, it is very unfortunate to think that BMW might have deliberately blocked the functionality of their motorcycles audio systems to force those wanting that functionality, to abandon their existing, perfectly good system and purchase another complete system that, guess what, BMW will sell you to fix the problem that they deliberately created specifically so that you would have to buy their branded products.

    Hopefully, that is not the case (sounds as though it is), but if it is, thank heavens they haven't done that with their BMW oil, and BMW coolant, and BMW lube, etc. Well, I guess they did try that didn't they, and, they have been partially successful with it, unfortunately.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanColes View Post
    If true, it is very unfortunate to think that BMW might have deliberately blocked the functionality of their motorcycles audio systems to force those wanting that functionality, to abandon their existing, perfectly good system and purchase another complete system that, guess what, BMW will sell you to fix the problem that they deliberately created specifically so that you would have to buy their branded products.

    Hopefully, that is not the case (sounds as though it is), but if it is, thank heavens they haven't done that with their BMW oil, and BMW coolant, and BMW lube, etc. Well, I guess they did try that didn't they, and, they have been partially successful with it, unfortunately.
    It is the case -- the '14-onward RTW's will only pair with 2 of the BMW-branded Cardo's (at least until someone figures out how to hack the software). Sena's can be paired, as described above, with some difficulty and by holding your mouth just right, but the volume from your radio must be controlled by the Sena, not by the WonderWheel.

    If you listen to music from an IPad/Ipod/etcetera, simply pair the IPad/IPod to the second helmet and be done with it. You'll still need to pair the helmets together for the intercom, and I'll guess you'll need to switch from Intercom to music at each helmet in order to listen to music.

    If I'm wrong, someone please enlighten me, as I have spent too many hours trying to get my Sena to emulate a BMW/Cardo!
    J Goertz
    BMW MOAL
    2015 BMW R1200RT
    2012 Triumph Bonneville SE

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