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Thread: Ran into a nasty issue with the cylinder head mounting stud

  1. #16
    Registered User a41capt's Avatar
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    Drilling and tapping

    The Helicoil guide that he is referring to is for a different system and is probably for the wrong size drill bit. The Timesert system comes with a tap guide that can be used for the drill, but the drill is sized so that it follows the original hole closely.

    Here is a link to show you how it's done since I've never taken any pictures of my own work:

    http://www.klr650.marknet.us/timesert.html

    It really is very simple and unless you're a complete idiot, a skill that can be performed by anyone with a couple hand tools, a drill motor (optional), and the balls to just go to work.

    And that's 2 cents from a guy who has actually used both the Helicoil and Timesert systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmftoy1 View Post
    It's your bike - but my .02 would be not to attempt to drill without a drill guide/jig. If you get it wrong you might be shopping for new engine cases.

    Good luck!

  2. #17
    Registered User dmftoy1's Avatar
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    I think you misinterpreted me as saying that timeserts are bad, I don't care whether he uses helicoil's, timeserts or anything else. My point is that drilling the cases without a proper jig is not a risk I'd take with my bike.

    Have a good one,
    Dave

  3. #18
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    I feel it is also important to use a guide with the tap. The hole could be drilled perfectly straight but if the tap is crooked the stud will be crooked. You may be able to perform the installation but you will put undo stress on the stud and threaded hole if it is tapped crooked.
    Jeff
    93 K1100LT
    03 K1200GT gone but not forgotten
    14 Victory Crossroads

  4. #19
    Back in the saddle again mikegalbicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffd View Post
    I feel it is also important to use a guide with the tap.
    I guess I have been very blessed during my 50 years of drilling and tapping hundreds of holes by hand only to have never messed one up. How did I ever get by without those fancy contraptions?

  5. #20
    Registered User dmftoy1's Avatar
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    Big difference between drilling and tapping by hand for a bolt, etc vs a stud that's going to stick out 10+ inches and upon which your valve train is going to rest being off by 1 degree by hand on a 1"long bolt isn't gonna effect much, but magnify the error by10. . .

  6. #21
    Registered User a41capt's Avatar
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    Yep!

    Quote Originally Posted by mikegalbicka View Post
    I guess I have been very blessed during my 50 years of drilling and tapping hundreds of holes by hand only to have never messed one up. How did I ever get by without those fancy contraptions?
    Right on pard.

    Using the tap guide to get you started ain't a bad idea for a newbie, especially since the tap included in the kit is a plug rather than starting tap, but the experienced folks shouldn't have an issue.

    As for drilling the old threaded hole, it's already there and square with what is needed. You're only reaming for diameter, and that's barely more than the old thread major diameter. Kinda hard to make the hole crooked unless it was already crooked before you started! We aren't filling and redrilling the case, just cleaning out the old thread pattern.

  7. #22
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    It's the old oz of prevention / pound of cure thing. I like to minimize my risk when I can.
    93 K1100LT
    03 K1200GT gone but not forgotten
    14 Victory Crossroads

  8. #23

    BMW stud tool

    Just to let you know there is a company in Boulder Co that makes and sells a stud tool that works very well.
    My brother owns one and has rented to other enthusiast on occasions.
    You can see the tool here and his review on there page
    Aaron D
    http://www.hpd-online.com/stud-tool.php

    Good luck with your repair
    Dave

  9. #24
    I have a ratcheting tap handle that is 12 inches long. With care, and a handle this long, any angular discrepancy is minimal. It is a lot easier to get crooked with a very short tap handle.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  10. #25

    Ratcheting tap handle?

    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I have a ratcheting tap handle that is 12 inches long. With care, and a handle this long, any angular discrepancy is minimal. It is a lot easier to get crooked with a very short tap handle.
    What is a ratcheting tap handle,never saw one?
    Dave

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by davesbmw View Post
    What is a ratcheting tap handle,never saw one?
    Dave
    It is a "T" handle with a tap chuck on the opposite end (of course) that has a ratcheting mechanism. In use, turn -tap advances, reverse - handle ratchets, turn - tap advances, etc.

    This provides a very stable way to turn the tap with simple twists of the wrist.

    See for example: http://www.sears.com/medco-ahn-21102...&blockType=G13
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  12. #27

    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    It is a "T" handle with a tap chuck on the opposite end (of course) that has a ratcheting mechanism. In use, turn -tap advances, reverse - handle ratchets, turn - tap advances, etc.

    This provides a very stable way to turn the tap with simple twists of the wrist.

    See for example: http://www.sears.com/medco-ahn-21102...&blockType=G13
    you learn something new every day
    Thanks Paul

  13. #28
    Registered User ebeeby's Avatar
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    And again, the manuals are wrong about 29 pounds on those studs. 25 is plenty. Also, unless you have just done a top end and need to follow the re-torque procedure, leave them alone - meaning, resist the urge to torque them everytime you adjust your valve lash.
    1973 R75/5

  14. #29

    Sorry for warming up this old post...

    I have the same issues with my top right stud on the right cylinder. I am on the fence if I should tackle this myself or pay someone to do it.

    There is one thing that hasn't been covered in this thread (I think). How do you get the small hole drilled in the insert that is needed for the oil supply? That seems like a big deal to me. Is there any documentation about this? Thanks!
    Olaf - Austin, TX MOA #200565
    Current bikes: 2012 R1200R Classic, 1973 R75/5 www.R75slash5.com, 1969 CT 70 (108 cc engine)

  15. #30
    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherbmw View Post
    I have the same issues with my top right stud on the right cylinder. I am on the fence if I should tackle this myself or pay someone to do it.

    There is one thing that hasn't been covered in this thread (I think). How do you get the small hole drilled in the insert that is needed for the oil supply? That seems like a big deal to me. Is there any documentation about this? Thanks!
    We had a recent thread on this subject. It's imperative that a drill guide be used so that the drilling is done perfectly straight...if not, then the small angles that it is off means that the studs will not be parallel when they get all the way out to the head and rocker arms. Things might not fit then. In my book, this is a critical job and I'd want someone who had done this before either looking over my shoulder or have a trained mechanic doing it.

    The service bulletin mentions that the helicoil should be installed 2mm below the outside surface of the engine case. This should result in the oil feed path not being blocked. Snowbum discusses this and more near the bottom of this page:

    http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/break-in.htm
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
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