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Thread: Battery charging issue

  1. #76
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    Battery charging issue

    Here is the email I sent to Battery Tender and their response.
    ------------
    My email:

    Per a chat window conversation this morning, please forward this question to engineering.

    I have work on a fair number of motorcycles, mostly BMWs from the '90s with a mix of FLA, Gel (BMW / Panasonic), and AGM (Odyssey, Westco...) batteries. I've had two chat window conversations with Batttery Tender representatives regarding the Junior and Plus (My Plus is ~10 years old). In both, it has been stated that the microprocessor determines the type of battery it is connected to and sets peak voltage for the bulk charge and maintained voltage for the absorption step accordingly. (ignoring temperature compensation since it doesn't apply to the Junior). Without getting into proprietary details such as the actual values you use to make the determination, I'd like to know the following:

    1) What parameters are you looking at to determine the type of battery / the peak voltage for the bulk charge and maintained voltage for the absorption step? Is this all done during the initialization step?

    2) If you are adjusting the charging voltage, why float at 13.2V regardless of battery type?

    3) Why is there a standard Plus charger and a Plus Gel? If you are able to determine the battery type and adjust your charging algorithm accordingly, why not cover all common lead acid battery types with a single charger?

    4) Your product descriptions refer to a 4 step charging algorithm. Your technical section on your web site talks about a 5 step algorithm which includes an optional equalization step. Do any of your chargers offer the equalization step? If so, what is the voltage held at during equalization?

    Thanks for your time - Jonathan
    -------------------
    Their response:

    This is the response from our engineering department.

    There is a misunderstanding that chargers have the ability to determine battery chemistry and/or type of lead acid battery. Our chargers cannot do that nor can anybody else’s. Electrically, each type of lead acid battery looks virtually identical to the others. What we do is make compromises so that we can do a good job charging a battery no matter what type lead acid it is. This allows a hook it up and forget it experience for the customer. This eliminates questions 1) through 3). Question 4) only applies to the AGM setting of the DVD-40 and all golf cart type chargers except the Emergency Vehicle charger. These chargers have an additional stage to equalize the charge of each battery cell. The maximum voltage of this stage is 15.7V with a current limit around 2 amps.

    Thank you,

    Loretta
    Deltran USA, LLC
    801 International Speedway Blvd.
    DeLand FL 32724

    --------------------------
    So there you have it. An honest answer from Battery Tender engineering which contradicts the myth perpetuated by customer service / sales.

    I think I've run away with this thread long enough. Both the 10 year old battery tender plus and the latest Optimate 7 select can charge a battery. They go about things a bit differently and the Optimate should run quicker on larger batteries, but the are both capable. Neither of them can work outright miracles. Despite being capable of running 10A, (in theory at least) The Optimate appears to do a good job of turning down the flow for small batteries based on the reduction in gassing and long charge times. If the Optimate can last as long as my Battery Tender, I'll be perfectly happy with both purchases.
    Last edited by rxcrider; 09-30-2016 at 08:23 PM.

  2. #77
    Registered User AntonLargiader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m_stock10506 View Post
    The OP says his bike is an R1100RSL. These battery replacement steps sound just like the steps for my RT. Are these steps the same for an RS? Similar enough?
    The RT has a snorkel that unhooks at the front whereas the other models need to be unscrewed. That's the only difference I can think of.
    Anton Largiader 72724
    Tech articles - YouTube
    Virginia Motorrad Werkstatt BMW motorcycle service and repair in central Virginia

  3. #78
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rxcrider View Post
    There is a misunderstanding that chargers have the ability to determine battery chemistry and/or type of lead acid battery. Our chargers cannot do that nor can anybody else’s.

    Loretta
    Deltran USA, LLC

    --------------------------
    So there you have it. An honest answer from Battery Tender engineering which contradicts the myth perpetuated by customer service / sales.
    Bingo, exactly what I said and what we told these marketing people passing BS when I worked in the lab evaluating chargers.

    BTW, your battery should not "gas" if you stay under the voltage cut-off for the battery unless it is defective. This is a per-cell voltage which you can multiply by the number of cells to get your end voltage. Of course if the cells need balancing, you'll need to go over-voltage and some cells will gas. You simply top off the cells with distilled and you are set again. As mentioned before, the Xantrex will not allow you to go into equalization mode on an AGM or GEL for that reason.

  4. #79
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    BTW, your battery should not "gas" if you stay under the voltage cut-off for the battery unless it is defective...
    Pretty much the case on the batteries which were gassing. They have all been replaced in service but serve purposes like emergency spare or the power supply for my fuel transfer pump.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #80
    Rocky Bow BMW Riders #197 bogthebasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I admire Global Rider's expertise in his area. I truly do. But i am a pragtimist. I have Schumacker chargers. I have Battery Tender Chargers. I have several other brands. I have about 10 such devices. NONE are optimal. I just try to keep 9 motorcycles and three 4 wheelers running, and starting. I can't afford $150-$160 chargers. So I try to keep stuff ready to start. Sometimes it is gold - sometimes it is @#$$%. Such is life. If I had one bike or one car then I might try to find the optimum. Otherwise, I look for adequate. Will it start?????
    +1 on Expertise and thank you GlobalRider! +1 on avoiding unecessary Battery Charger cost. Batteries are extremely costly as well. Since I only have two vehicles to care for over winter (my R1200RT - Odessey PC680, my son #2 4WD Rally Turbo Celica car - Odessey PC680) and the fact that I am home most of winter I can get by with one charger and swap it around as needed. On both vehicles I tried Battery Tender versions and this led to premature no start conditions after three years of Battery Tender Odessey winter charging on both the bike and the car. Then I had to replace both the batteries more than once.

    Due to GlobalRider and this forum I heard the CTEK Multi US 7002. It is the perfect battery charger for my situation balancing both the cost of battery chargers, effectiveness of the charging long term and the cost of premature battery replacement. I am currently using it to bring another PC680 back from the dead for son #1 who found he had a persistent drain in his rally car over this winter that already flattened his battery (5.9V) after at two week -25C two week cold snap which may have also froze the battery.

    Why are my kids using PC680's in their cars? They have so much stuff packed into the engine compartments there is literally no room for a conventional battery.

    Thanks all for this excellent information, help and updates via the forum.
    Ken Dittrick
    2008 R1200RT (Biarritz Blau)


    Excuses are the rocks upon which our dreams are crushed - Tim Fargo

  6. #81
    This thread reminds me why it's so nice to live in Louisiana. Year round riding! No chargers/maintainers needed. Down in the 40s today. Brrrr

  7. #82
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srmauer View Post
    This thread reminds me why it's so nice to live in Louisiana. Year round riding! No chargers/maintainers needed. Down in the 40s today. Brrrr
    Just got back from a ride 40F - Balmy.
    Last week it was 0, good thing for heated gear and grips
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

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