Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28

Thread: Wouldn't it be cool if BMW

  1. #1
    Cowboyatheart
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pender Harbour, B.C.
    Posts
    948

    Wouldn't it be cool if BMW

    Wouldn't it be cool if BMW made a 650 modeled after the R 1200 GS.

    An exact replica of the R 1200 GS Wethead but a 650. Lighter, maybe a little less tall, slightly less wide. Make the torque curve and the horsepower similar to the F 700 GS. But make the performance like the R 1200 GS wet head. And by exact replica, I mean all of the electronic goodies. An R 1200 GS baby brother.

    I would be all over picking one of those puppies up!
    Moringa, your body & brain will thank you! PM for discounts Smart Mix at TasteMoringa.com
    XM3 Energy, real energy for the body & brain, no sugar high, XM3.Energy

  2. #2
    Registered User Mossy_Crk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Between the bike and the ground
    Posts
    98
    I know where you are coming from and I'd just about wet myself for an R800GS (I'd kill the F800 line, return the F series to singles). The problem I believe, even if it's a 600 series, is there's isn't enough cost difference between manufacturing a 1200 boxer and a smaller boxer to have enough retail price difference between the two. I can't image a large sales volumes of a small boxer if you could have a larger for 1-2 grand more.

    Maybe if we see the R1200 go to a 1300 or 1400, but even then, I don't think the margin would be there to price the bike where they would have to for the NA market.

  3. #3
    jdubeemer jdubick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Boaz Alabama
    Posts
    428
    My first BMW was an R850R which had plenty of power and ran much smoother than the 1100GS I traded up to after a couple years. It suffered what you are talking about in that there was very little difference in cost between the 850R and the 1100R so they only made it for a couple years.
    Jim Dubick
    Boaz, Alabama
    R1200RT,R1100GS,KLX250
    BMW MOA, BMW MOALABAMA

  4. #4
    rabid reader dbrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    Posts
    2,337
    BMW wrestled with the same issue in the 80s and 90s: the production cost of the K75 bikes was almost as high as that of the K100 machines, but the market - judging the motor displacement as determinative of value - would only pay a little more for the 4-cylinder bikes.
    David Brick
    Santa Cruz CA
    2007 R1200R

  5. #5
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    WNY, Further fron NYC, than 6 entire states!
    Posts
    2,332
    Why kill the 800 twin? I like the motor better than the boxer for an adventure bike, and it isn't a bad highway cruiser either, just add a tooth to the front sprocket. Plus I average over 50 mpg flogging the crap out of it in 2nd and 3rd gears in the Smokies, and have pushed 70mpg at a less spirited pace. Add 5K plus miles on a set of tires (boxer only gave me about 2K /set) and I am a happy camper.


    Loved the motor from my first ride on an ST back in '07.
    2010 F800GS Full Ohlins package, '04 R1100S Replika
    '01 F650GS Wife's bike
    Maritime Alps and Vosges 2012
    Tuscany and Central Italy 2010

  6. #6
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    5,420
    Quote Originally Posted by dbrick View Post
    BMW wrestled with the same issue in the 80s and 90s: the production cost of the K75 bikes was almost as high as that of the K100 machines, but the market - judging the motor displacement as determinative of value - would only pay a little more for the 4-cylinder bikes.
    The triple was smooth, the four wasn't.............
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Grayling, MI
    Posts
    306
    Quote Originally Posted by nelliott View Post
    Wouldn't it be cool if BMW made a 650 modeled after the R 1200 GS.

    An exact replica of the R 1200 GS Wethead but a 650. Lighter, maybe a little less tall, slightly less wide. Make the torque curve and the horsepower similar to the F 700 GS. But make the performance like the R 1200 GS wet head. And by exact replica, I mean all of the electronic goodies. An R 1200 GS baby brother.

    I would be all over picking one of those puppies up!
    I have a 650 single and love it. It can go down the highway just fine (Prudhoe - Key West) and can do singletrack not acting like a jeep. Something I think the people on the GS1200WC may have to work a little at. If the mothership would put a bigger tank and some electronics on the 650 I would be over the moon.

    Buutttt -what your talking about is completely different. I have an 850R (160K) and I would love to see a mid sized shaft drive GS Boxer Adventure that got better mileage than my Cruze Diesel. Something scoring an everyday 65 mpg with a 400 mile range so we don't get range anxiety looking for out of the way places like Pender Harbour, B.C..

    And if they made something like that Neil, you would not be "picking one of those puppies up".

    You would be standing in line.

    Wayne Koppa
    Life 71,449

  8. #8
    Rich Pelton Rich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Killdeer, ND
    Posts
    1,474
    I would much rather see an 800RT.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern WV
    Posts
    699
    Quote Originally Posted by nelliott View Post
    Wouldn't it be cool if BMW made a 650 modeled after the R 1200 GS.

    An exact replica of the R 1200 GS Wethead but a 650. Lighter, maybe a little less tall, slightly less wide. Make the torque curve and the horsepower similar to the F 700 GS. But make the performance like the R 1200 GS wet head. And by exact replica, I mean all of the electronic goodies. An R 1200 GS baby brother.

    I would be all over picking one of those puppies up!
    How much less would an R650 GS weigh compared to an R1200GS.... 40-75 pounds maximum? How much does 40-75 pounds of metal and plastic cost $100? Because that's all the savings there'd be at at the manufacturing level. Would you be willing to pay within $300-even $500 the cost of a R1200 for an R650? It's not raw material cost, the big cost in motorcycles is in the designing, R&D, tooling, testing, compliance, distribution and warranty, etc.
    Last edited by milo; 08-11-2015 at 04:05 AM. Reason: adjust difference from 75-150 to a more realistic 40-75 pound difference.
    16 R1200RS, 93 R100R, 17 Versys x300, 16 Africa Twin DCT, 15 Road King, 16 V7 Stone No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    Would you be willing to pay within $300-even $500 the cost of a R1200 for an R650?
    Yes
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  11. #11
    Registered User AntonLargiader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    2,159
    That's why the R850 approach didn't work well cost-wise, but if you're really designing the bike as a 650 then you don't have to build the rest of it like it's a 1200. You don't need a drivetrain that will survive 120HP for instance, and the chassis can be lighter because it's carrying a lighter drivetrain. But that takes design time and different tooling, and BMW has made it pretty clear for ten years now that they don't want to take the boxer in this direction. They are pursuing horsepower because that's how they see the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    How much less would an R650 GS weigh compared to an R1200GS.... 40-75 pounds maximum? How much does 40-75 pounds of metal and plastic cost $100? Because that's all the savings there'd be at at the manufacturing level. Would you be willing to pay within $300-even $500 the cost of a R1200 for an R650? It's not raw material cost, the big cost in motorcycles is in the designing, R&D, tooling, testing, compliance, distribution and warranty, etc.
    Anton Largiader 72724
    Tech articles - YouTube
    Virginia Motorrad Werkstatt BMW motorcycle service and repair in central Virginia

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Grayling, MI
    Posts
    306
    Quote Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
    That's why the R850 approach didn't work well cost-wise, but if you're really designing the bike as a 650 then you don't have to build the rest of it like it's a 1200. You don't need a drivetrain that will survive 120HP for instance, and the chassis can be lighter because it's carrying a lighter drivetrain. But that takes design time and different tooling, and BMW has made it pretty clear for ten years now that they don't want to take the boxer in this direction. They are pursuing horsepower because that's how they see the market.
    A smaller displacement only version of the boxer isn't going to spur sales and will not as a result be economically viable to the mothership or the market if the only thing that is different is the displacement. As much as I love my 850R it did not set any sales records that I knew of.

    A successful smaller GS has to offer features the big bike doesn't. The first would be markedly higher MPG and subsequently range. The second would be longer service intervals and the third would be (part of the service issue but a separate consideration for most) a tubeless tire design that gets us past the mileages most of us are seeing. I am willing to trade horsepower for mileage and tire life and service inspections.

    Cycle News this week http://magazine.cyclenews.com/i/5539...e-32-august-11 (electronic subscriptions are free) makes mention of UK Ricardo Motorcycles doing the design of the K1600 and K1300. Surely they have someone out there that can do the engine part of this. If not BMW in house or Ricardo - someone else. Someone from BMW Motorrad teased they had a diesel in the works a few years ago.

    A mid sized world adventure bike with exceptional mileage that we don't have to lay a wrench on for 15k could be pretty ugly and I would still buy it.

    Just sayin

    Wayne Koppa
    Life 71,449

  13. #13
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    WNY, Further fron NYC, than 6 entire states!
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by wkoppa View Post
    .......................

    A mid sized world adventure bike with exceptional mileage that we don't have to lay a wrench on for 15k could be pretty ugly and I would still buy it.
    ...........
    You just described the F650GS both single and twin, the F700GS and the F800GS! Not sure what you are looking for, you want a WIDER heavier version?

    Little known fact the F700GS has a HIGHER payload capacity than the R1200GS or GS ADV, in fact the highest payload of any BMW, incl the RT and GLT models!

    What do you have against the F series? My bet is that there have been more F650GS thumpers ridden on world adventures than the boxers, since the F bikes inception.
    2010 F800GS Full Ohlins package, '04 R1100S Replika
    '01 F650GS Wife's bike
    Maritime Alps and Vosges 2012
    Tuscany and Central Italy 2010

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Grayling, MI
    Posts
    306

    Exclamation I like my Thumper - It could be better.

    "What do you have against the F series? My bet is that there have been more F650GS thumpers ridden on world adventures than the boxers, since the F bikes inception."

    No - I like my thumper - but it could be a lot better.

    I am no "world adventurer" but I rode from Michigan to Prudhoe Bay to Key West to Michigan last year in 20 days on my G650GS. According to my valve inspect requirements I should have done two service visits during the 13,170 mile trip. I think Yamaha and Ducati have models out there with much longer valve inspect periods. I think BMW engineers and their manufacturing requirements should be able to do the same.

    Fuel capacity on the G650Gs is dismal. I like to stop but not necessarily at gas stations. Up north of here you start spending a significant amount of anxiety trying to stay out of trouble by filling up early. Riding to the AIMExpo and back last year had something like 21 fuel stops. I have a fix for that but on something characterized as an adventure bike there should have a better fuel capacity option.

    Riding solo, I think this is the best bike for me in the BMW line. I can cruise all day at 80 mph and its nimble enough to take into the woods. Runs fine on low octane and chain and sprockets go about 20k. Coming out of Prudhoe last year it rained and I was making great time and having fun. I would of loved to be riding with a couple people on the bigger two GS alternatives to see if it made much of a difference being on the smaller of the three.

    This bike has the capability to do it all with a little bit of work here and there. It may be a mute point as that I don't know how long the platform is going to be in the line-up.

    So - No I don't have anything against the thumpers - I think they are generally underrated and under appreciated.

    Wayne Koppa
    71,449 Life
    DRZ 250, R100RS, R850R, G650GS

  15. #15
    It is what it is. Bud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Long gone
    Posts
    7,414
    Quote Originally Posted by pffog View Post
    You just described the F650GS both single and twin, the F700GS and the F800GS! Not sure what you are looking for, you want a WIDER heavier version?

    Little known fact the F700GS has a HIGHER payload capacity than the R1200GS or GS ADV, in fact the highest payload of any BMW, incl the RT and GLT models!

    What do you have against the F series? My bet is that there have been more F650GS thumpers ridden on world adventures than the boxers, since the F bikes inception.
    Interesting stats.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •