Tragedy

ponch1 · Jul 21, 2015

jcj78 said:
No. I know that even though I wasn't yet a teenager when the 50th Anniversary Edition came out.

I edited my post, but ftr, its kind of disingenous to pretend like you're protecting "women's" delicate sensibilities if its really your own. just sayin.

Well she could play the part.

mika · Jul 21, 2015

I strongly support wearing a helmet.

I do not support BMWMOA becoming an advocate for helmet legislation at any level. I do support continuing and expanding education related to the value of helmets and gear.

I do support the organization developing information for the membership and training materials for riders to respond to motorcycle accidents and help manage these accident scenes until first responders arrive.

I don't think mandatory helmet legislation makes a difference.

Let me explain that belief a bit more.

My core belief is that social legislation mandating behavior only codifies what is considered acceptable behavior already in place for one reason or another. In the US we have come a long way in teaching people the value of a helmet since I started riding in the sixties. In a summary of the most recent (year 2012 published in 2014) NHTSA helmet use numbers I was able to find the nation wide use was pegged in the 60 percent range. This includes the 19 states with some sort of mandatory helmet law. The summary placed useage in helmet law states between 74 and 95 percent. Variation in compliance appears to be based on how draconian the penalties for non compliance are. Compare this to Canada which was listed in a who.int study at 99.4 percent. For some perspective a 2009 Census report (covering 1990-2009) estimated just over 7.8 million motorcycles were registered in the US. I will let you do the math on how many riders that means. You may not see the non compliant rider but they are out there.

Statistically some of these numbers could well be considered equal to 100 percent compliance for all practical purposes. Yet all reported findings of accident investigation reviews and observation data reports incidents of non compliance. My guess is the socio-political reasons for compliance / non compliance rates involve discussions beyond the limits of the forum posting guidelines.

If you are looking for 100 percent compliance and new found safety and lower death totals as a result it isn’t going to happen. Yes, the same reports show that you are something like 37 percent more likely to survive an accident if you are wearing a helmet than if you are not. Mr Meadows may have survived the encounter with a dog if he had a helmet on. The fact his helmet wearing rider survived and was released the same day suggests he may well have, but does not guarantee he would have. I like more likely to survive, but it is not a guarantee you will. That said in fifty some years I have improved the quality of helmet I have with each purchase.

I do believe there is a role in the US at a national, state and local level for helmet legislation to teach and train how to use them properly, regulations for what is a DOT or other approved helmet, and for funding into helmet research.

I do believe the MOA has a role. Not as a legislative advocate or preacher but providing information, safety training and real life in action demonstrators. Start at home in the association and grow it from there.

I believe in wearing a helmet and gear. lkchris observed in another thread that there is no difference in the gear required to safely ride a Vespa or a S1000RR. I agree. I just don’t believe in the US we are at the point where you can legislate that yet.

jcj78 · Jul 21, 2015

ponch1 said:
Well she could play the part.

Her adam's apple would interfere with the costume. It'd cost a fortune to CGI that out. Think Kevin Costner's hair in Waterworld. Uh, oh, now I'm showing MY age.

jeffkruger · Jul 21, 2015

jcj78 said:
I've been a small business owner since 1999, three years after I graduated high school, and a two years after I lost my academic scholarship because I chased girls and drank beer and shot backyard archery tournaments (that's how I paid my rent in college*) till all hours of the night. Now I own stakes in two small businesses, and remain a FDR Democrat.
I'd be happy to debate economic theory with you in a more appropriate venue. Feel free to PM me.

All due respect, Jeff.

*edit: The backyard archery tournaments are how I paid my rent. i'm pretty sure the statute of limitations is up, . The girls chasing and beer drinking never did make black ink.

Our country was founded on spirited debate and the right to disagree. Riding and things associated with it for me, usually have nothing to do with politics.

I don't like the direction our country is headed, and if it continues my wife and I will retire. Gone will be millions of dollars paid in various taxes, and quite a few families will be without work, and suppliers will lose millions of dollars per year in business. We feel a strong obligation to those that work for us, suppliers, etc., but at the end of the day it's been us with millions of dollars of our own capital at risk. Many of them chose the security of a regular paycheck, and that is fine. They can find other jobs, or not, depending on how bad things may get here. No matter what our illustrious leader may say, my wife and I did build our business. There were years of putting in a lot more hours than anyone did that was working for us. At this point we feel our highest obligation is to ourselves and what we have worked for. So many on the right hate successful business owners, yet they enjoy their government subsidized lifestyle that our taxes provide. I don't think many unsuccessful businesses are creating jobs and broke folks sure aren't signing many checks. I shudder to think what a recovery could look like if the successful hang it up. Maybe Ayn Rand was a prophet?

Some folks point to the DOW and NASDAQ as an example of how it's working. Take a look at the DOW component companies and see where the majority of their profits are being made. It's not in this country. Obama's own job czar closed a plant in Wisconsin and invested over 2 billion in China to replace it. I guess someone should have told him the jobs he was supposed to help create were in this country.

Rant hat off. Back to pleasant thoughts of riding. There must be an oil thread going somewhere, isn't there?

dennisdarrow · Jul 21, 2015

jeffkruger said:
. So many on the right hate successful business owners, yet they enjoy their government subsidized lifestyle that our taxes provide

I really do appreciate your insight, obvious success, and outlook for the future of OUR country. One question though. Is that a mistake above or is that truly what you meant. I guess all this time of thinking that being on the "right" meant that one was pro-business and for small government. On the opposite hand is the left who thinks that government can best control when, where, and how a business shall operate...........???????????
God bless these United States.....

jeffkruger · Jul 21, 2015

That was obviously a typo, I meant on the far left. Thanks for catching that.

Folks that like milk should at least respect cows and hope the cows are well cared for, because without the cows the milk supplies dry up.

A record number of American's have chosen to "Galt" it. The number of people renouncing their US Citizenship is at record numbers. I have a couple of neighbors that have kept their citizenship for now, but left the country.

motodan · Jul 21, 2015

rad said:
Hey Motodan

How are you doing? Seeing something like that can really take a toll on a person, especially when children are involved.

Conrad

You are right rad. I felt very uneasy standing there. Mr. Meadows was three years younger than me, I have 5 grandchildren...one a nine year old granddaughter, like him. Having seen them earlier, rolling down the road, little girl clutching her grandfather's waist on a warm Saturday morning...and than 10 minutes later it all changed. Have to admit, I felt my own life/mortality at that scene.

There will be a memorial for Mr. Meadows tomorrow night in Lafayette. It is being held at the Shrine Club...

A celebration of T.L.'s (Mr. Meadows) life will be held at 8 p.m. on Thursday, July 23, 2015 at the Tippecanoe Shrine Club on Old State Road 25 in Lafayette with Tippecanoe Shrine's Vice President Jonathan Fisher officiating. At 6 p.m. a Masonic Service will be held, all are invited. Friends will be received from 5 - 8 p.m. on that same day.

Donations Information

Memorial Contributions may be made to the Shriner's Hospital for Children, envelopes will be available at the Shrine Club.

I was able to leave condolences on the funeral home's online guestbook. I somewhat feel like I should drive the two hours to attend. However, my grandson and (nine year old) granddaughter have a swim meet tomorrow evening...I think Mr. Meadows would have understood my absence.

RIP Terry Meadows.

Thanks for asking rad.

Bud · Jul 21, 2015

jcj78 said:
It is a lot like lane splitting. The people who oppose helmet laws, and the people who continually denounce lane splitting have something in common:

Neither understands basic mathematics.

Glad we could clear that up.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't. :wave

jcj78 · Jul 21, 2015

jeffkruger said:
That was obviously a typo, I meant on the far left. Thanks for catching that.

Folks that like milk should at least respect cows and hope the cows are well cared for, because without the cows the milk supplies dry up.

A record number of American's have chosen to "Galt" it. The number of people renouncing their US Citizenship is at record numbers. I have a couple of neighbors that have kept their citizenship for now, but left the country.

I love it when capitalists don't believe in capitalism. If there is a demand, someone will fill it. That's high school economics.

Anyhow, I bet the geriatric Galteers went someplace with "socialist medicine".

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."- John Rogers

jeffkruger · Jul 21, 2015

jcj78 said:
I love it when capitalists don't believe in capitalism. If there is a demand, someone will fill it. That's high school economics.

Anyhow, I bet the geriatric Galteers went someplace with "socialist medicine".

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."- John Rogers

I very much believe in largely unrestricted capitalism. Malcom Forbes made a great case for it in one of his books.

You jump to a lot of conclusions, which is a sign of less than stellar intelligence. Some of the folks that I personally know that have chosen to "Galt" it weren't geriatric. You've heard of companies like Microsoft? Unbelievable amount of wealth created at some companies like that. Some of it has chosen to leave, and some were pretty young.

Omega Man · Jul 21, 2015

A reminder-

Banned Topics

Over the years (and many winters) we've pretty much been able to identify some things that inevitably start flame wars, breed ill will, and just in general make people act in ways they'd never have believed themselves capable (and yes, that is meant in the bad way.) Below are a few of these topics:

Religion
Abortion
Politics
Firearms
If you all want to keep up with the tragedy of the situation

OM

jcj78 · Jul 21, 2015

jeffkruger said:
I very much believe in largely unrestricted capitalism. Malcom Forbes made a great case for it in one of his books.

You jump to a lot of conclusions, which is a sign of less than stellar intelligence. Some of the folks that I personally know that have chosen to "Galt" it weren't geriatric. You've heard of companies like Microsoft? Unbelievable amount of wealth created at some companies like that. Some of it has chosen to leave, and some were pretty young.

Bill Gates and Paul Allen both live here in the US, and pay taxes and don't whine about it.
Guess what? Just because you take your ball and go home, the game doesn't stop. There is still money to be made, and people still make it. I understand this shatters your delusions about how the rest of us are beholden to you and your self-professed job-creating wealth, but I've been self-employed, and an employer for nearly half my life, and i'm not 40 yet. "When did a poor person ever write a paycheck?" I do it every week, brother, and to you, who bragged that he made more in a month than most "working class" (your words) American families make in a lifetime, I am dirt poor.
Your whole economic theory is protofacist propaganda, and I'm largely unimpressed.

LoL that you insult my intelligence, grandpa. FTR, I think you're a little wet in the Depends yourself.

jcj78 · Jul 21, 2015

Omega Man said:
A reminder-

Banned Topics

Over the years (and many winters) we've pretty much been able to identify some things that inevitably start flame wars, breed ill will, and just in general make people act in ways they'd never have believed themselves capable (and yes, that is meant in the bad way.) Below are a few of these topics:

Religion
Abortion
Politics
Firearms
If you all want to keep up with the tragedy of the situation
OM

point taken. I tried to move it out of here several posts ago. I'm switching off.

Omega Man · Jul 21, 2015

jcj78 said:
Bill Gates and Paul Allen both live here in the US, and pay taxes and don't whine about it.
Guess what? Just because you take your ball and go home, the game doesn't stop. There is still money to be made, and people still make it. I understand this shatters your delusions about how the rest of us are beholden to you and your self-professed job-creating wealth, but I've been self-employed, and an employer for nearly half my life, and i'm not 40 yet. "When did a poor person ever write a paycheck?" I do it every week, brother, and to you, who bragged that he made more in a month than most "working class" (your words) American families make in a lifetime, I am dirt poor.
Your whole economic theory is protofacist propaganda, and I'm largely unimpressed.

LoL that you insult my intelligence, grandpa. FTR, I think you're a little wet in the Depends yourself.

Thread Closed

Tragedy

ponch1

Ponch

mika

Still Wondering

jcj78

New member

jeffkruger

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dennisdarrow

#4869 Earned Lifetime mem

jeffkruger

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motodan

Active member

Bud

It is what it is.

jcj78

New member

jeffkruger

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Omega Man

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

jcj78

New member

jcj78

New member

Omega Man

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat

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