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Thread: Hall sensor replacement, do I need the engine lock pin?

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    All good info.
    I might add it is very important to use temperature rated heatshrink tubing.
    Good workmanship is paramount as well, this is risk of damaging the Motronic if done incorrectly.
    Amazon has some small (48 inch) lengths of various diameters of a PTFE heat shrink tubing rated at 500 degF. The diameter you need will depend on the wire used. The 0.125" ID tubing has a shrink ratio of 1:4 -
    http://www.amazon.com/Zeus-White-Tra...+shrink+tubing

    The 3/16" ID tubing has a 1:6 shrink ratio -
    http://www.amazon.com/Zeus-White-Tra...+shrink+tubing

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by robsryder View Post
    Amazon has some small (48 inch) lengths of various diameters of a PTFE heat shrink tubing rated at 500 degF. The diameter you need will depend on the wire used. The 0.125" ID tubing has a shrink ratio of 1:4 -
    http://www.amazon.com/Zeus-White-Tra...+shrink+tubing

    The 3/16" ID tubing has a 1:6 shrink ratio -
    http://www.amazon.com/Zeus-White-Tra...+shrink+tubing
    Sizes needed are 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4"
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  3. #18
    Newbie drj434343's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotFog View Post
    I just finished installing Dan Cata's HES on my 1996 R1100GS. His design is quite robust, the plate itself milled from Stainless Steel.

    As far as the locking pin, I thought the purpose was to establish OT, so that when installing the new HES, one can rotate the HES to find the exact point at which TDC occurs. A simple test device can be made that will show where this occurs, and you can find the plan here :
    I read through the links, and they indicate you should put the engine in TDC, but they don't explain why. In fact, they also explain that the notched pulley has the hall trigger integrated, which means there is no way to change the orientation of the trigger in relationship to the crank position. The only thing you need to mark during replacement in my mind is the orientation of the hall sensor plate to the engine case.

    I replaced mine this afternoon but haven't restarted the bike yet. We'll see!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by drj434343 View Post
    I read through the links, and they indicate you should put the engine in TDC, but they don't explain why. In fact, they also explain that the notched pulley has the hall trigger integrated, which means there is no way to change the orientation of the trigger in relationship to the crank position. The only thing you need to mark during replacement in my mind is the orientation of the hall sensor plate to the engine case.

    I replaced mine this afternoon but haven't restarted the bike yet. We'll see!
    TDC is so the lock pin can be inserted. Then the pulley bolt can be loosened and tightened.
    '
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    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  5. #20
    Registered User GotFog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drj434343 View Post
    I read through the links, and they indicate you should put the engine in TDC, but they don't explain why. In fact, they also explain that the notched pulley has the hall trigger integrated, which means there is no way to change the orientation of the trigger in relationship to the crank position. The only thing you need to mark during replacement in my mind is the orientation of the hall sensor plate to the engine case.

    I replaced mine this afternoon but haven't restarted the bike yet. We'll see!
    You are setting up the relationship between three things. The position of the crankshaft, the pulley with the metal gate inside, and the HES. You are correct in stating that we cannot change the relationship of the pulley with the crank, as the notch assures us of correct alignment. However, the HES position needs to be defined relative to the crank/pulley combination. That is why the plate has elongated holes; the plate can be rotated beneath the pulley to establish alignment with TDC also.

    There is a copy of the BMW_R1100(RT-RS-GS-R)_Repair_Manual.pdf floating around on the net, and appears to have been published in 2000, so I use it to reference the '96 GS. If you cannot find it, PM me and I will be happy to send a copy. I am reluctant to cut and paste as it is copyrighted.

    The Technical Data section states that the static ignition timing is adjusted to TDC. That is what you are trying to do. From there the Motronic does its magic, and adjusts this on the fly( how, I have no idea). But the relationship of this is set from TDC, and hence the pin. This method assures a static, finite, repeatable position of the crankshaft/pulley combination, leaving only 1 variable, the rotation of the HES plate. Marking an existing plate and assuming it is correct, is well, and assumption. The fact that one is entering into the HES process seems to imply there are currently issues that need to be resolved.

    The Pin allows us to establish TDC in an installed engine. MaxBMW sells it here, but you can make one yourself.
    https://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fi...T_11%202%20650

    From the Repair manual, after removing and installing the HES, which you know how to do, the steps are as follows. I will type them verbatim:

    Timing the Ignition
    1. Lock the clutch housing with the TDC insert pin, BMW No. 11 2 650 (this is the pin you are making from the hack-sawed U-Bolt)
    2. Connect the ignition tester, BMW No. 12 3 650 and adapter lead, BMW No. 12 3 652, to Hall-effect trigger plate. (this is the box described in the IllinoisBMW video, and how to build from above link)
    3. Slacken off plate of Hall-effect trigger.
    4. Turn plate until telltale lamp just goes out. (This is what you are really after and trying to achieve)
    5. Tighten plate on Hall-effect trigger.
    6. Remove OT (TDC) insert pin.

    End of Procedure.

    Now with the relationship established precisely between the HES/Crank/Pulley combination, now I would mark the plate and engine housing for future reference. But if I ever changed the plate, the sensors, or any other physical alteration to the plate that modifies its geometry, I would repeat the above procedure. It is a bad case of the "Zactlys" but that is me; your stroke may be different.

    I hope this helps; best to all.

    John

  6. #21
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    I prefer to time the following way. (1150's only)
    When the sensor plate is in the approximate position....
    Turn on the ignition.
    Turn the crank CW (via the pulley nut) until the OT mark passes the center of the window
    The fuel pump should activate (for 1 sec) right at that point.
    Adjust the plate accordingly.

    No adapter lead required
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  7. #22
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    I prefer to time the following way. (1150's only)
    When the sensor plate is in the approximate position....
    Turn on the ignition.
    Turn the crank CW (via the pulley nut) until the OT mark passes the center of the window
    The fuel pump should activate (for 1 sec) right at that point.
    Adjust the plate accordingly.

    No adapter lead required
    And I wish I knew why that simple (can be done on the side of a highway) procedure works on an 1150 but not on the 1100! Something in the ECU firmware is different but since BMW provides zero info on the inner workings of the ECU... it's a mystery!

    On the 1100 I make scratch marks to get the replacement HES plate close enough to start the engine and then I use a timing light to get it bang on. Too lazy to make a Dana Hager timing box I would use so rarely.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  8. #23
    Since it appears that this thread will be marked for future reference by oilhead owners, I am including some other reference links for completeness.

    If the links get broken, one can search again... I used the google search engine with the terms "bmw r1100rs service manual". And a pdf of said manual can be downloaded from the following link(s) -
    http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/download...air_Manual.pdf
    http://motodataproject.com/product_i...roducts_id=170

    The IBMWR website has a goodly number of tech articles, link below -
    http://ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/index.shtml

    There is a supplemental oilhead service manual, generated by oilhead owners before the genuine article was available - I find it useful -
    http://ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R11...ce_2-25-02.pdf

    The link below appears similar to the IBMWR manual above, perhaps an earlier version? -
    http://www.ketchum.org/BMWmc/R1100.pdf

  9. #24
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    1996 R1100RT TDC and Flywheel Lock Pin for HES repair

    After washing my bike, only has 17,000 miles, I took it out for a ride. A couple minutes into the ride it began to run really rough and wanted to die every time I slowed down. Luckily I limed home. Based on previous reading on HES problems, I decided it was time to remove and repair the HES cable. I had saved many of the links found on the forum so I got into it. After removing the tank and alternator cover I rotated the crank to find TDC, looking through the timing window. I found what I believe is the TDC mark, see pic, and completed the cable removal and repaired the HES cable harness with new wires. When I removed the covering from the cable I was disappointed to see my wires looked really good. I could only find a couple wires that had cracked, but I replaced them with the high temp wire per the recommendations in the various writeups. I reinstalled the HES cable and alternator belt and made myself a locking pin, 8 mm / 5/16", and tried to insert it in the flywheel, through the access hole on the left side by the started. I kept searching for the flywheel hole but could never get the pin inserted. I decided to use a smaller locking pin, about 1/8 in diameter, in hopes of finding the hole. No luck. I did have a Endoscope that I could hook up to my smart phone so I hooked it up and put the scope probe into the access hole to see if I could see the lock hole in the flywheel. See pic. First I found I was just a tiny amount off TDC. I could see the hole for the locating pin, in the flywheel, but it was slightly off center of the access hole. I readjusted TDC so I could see the hole in the flywheel was centered in the access hole. I still could not get the 8mm / 5/16" pin in the hole. I could get a smaller pin in the hole so I did this, and torqued the crankshaft pulley bolt. I suspect others may of experienced the same difficulties I had using a 8mm pin but maybe I missed something. Is it possible the R1100 and R1150 have a different size flywheel lock pin hole. The write ups I was using seem to reference the R1150. Any thoughts? Thanks, oldcarman Jim
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  10. #25
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    Did you put the pin in here? with the flywheel at OT?
    There is a lower hole that won't work.
    You need to move slightly back and forth with the flywheel.
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    '
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    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  11. #26
    Registered User m_stock10506's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldcarman View Post
    ............ After removing the tank and alternator cover I rotated the crank to find TDC, looking through the timing window. I found what I believe is the TDC mark, see pic, and completed the cable removal and repaired the HES cable harness with new wires. When I removed the covering from the cable I was disappointed to see my wires looked really good. I could only find a couple wires that had cracked, but I replaced them with the high temp wire per the recommendations in the various writeups. I reinstalled the HES cable and alternator belt and made myself a locking pin, 8 mm / 5/16", and tried to insert it in the flywheel, through the access hole on the left side by the started. I kept searching for the flywheel hole but could never get the pin inserted. I decided to use a smaller locking pin, about 1/8 in diameter, in hopes of finding the hole. .................. Any thoughts? Thanks, oldcarman Jim
    No wonder! Your photo of the timing hole shows you are NOT at TDC. The mark in your photo window is the Z mark. TDC is when the OT mark is in the window. The 8 mm locking pin should fit.
    Michael Stock, Trinity, NC
    R1100RT, R100, R60/6

  12. #27
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    1996 R1100RT TDC and Flywheel Lock Pin for HES repair

    Wow, you hit the home run. I had no idea there was a "Z" mark and an "OT" TDC mark, see pic. None of the write ups I read mentioned the "Z" mark, so when I rotated the crank and saw the "Z" mark, I stopped. With the "OT" mark in the timing window, I looked in the access hole for the locking pin, left side, with the Endoscope and the locking pin hole was there. I inserted the 8mm / 5/16 pin and rotated the crank just slightly and it dropped right in. So, beware of the "Z" mark, it is not the OT (TDC ) mark. Thanks for the great info. oldcarman jim
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  13. #28
    Registered User AntonLargiader's Avatar
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    FWIW I determine TDC using a dial indicator on the piston. That is the real TDC; everything else is just something that's supposed to be the same as TDC.
    Anton Largiader 72724
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    Virginia Motorrad Werkstatt BMW motorcycle service and repair in central Virginia

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