2013 R1200RT Final Drive Failure

joeb83 said:

Well, I picked up my bike with new FD yesterday. Everything seems fine, and I would expect nothing else at this point. I did have a discussion with the service manager regarding FD failures and design, especially with regard to the bearing part number not being changed. He told me that while the part has not changed, the design has - specifically, starting with 2010 models, the bearing and seal locations were "reversed" so that the bearing is "inboard" and now has greater exposure to hypoid fluid. So, being the inquisitive type, I pulled up 2 windows with MAX BMW fiche showing 2005-2009 and 2010-2013 FD parts. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to flip back and forth between the drawing and see there is no radical re-design of the FD's in the 2 series.

Oh well, I have extended warranty on the bike, so best to just get on riding it for a few years and see how it holds up.

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I (and too many others) feel your pain. My first FD failure on my R1200RT was at 49k - second one started at 75k.

Personally, I don't think BMW is entirely clueless as to the FD snafu. I suspect the 'fix' is simply way too expensive (probably, a complete re-design) to be contemplated - ergo, they will just limp along with little impotent tweaks from time to time, as long as sales figures remain robust.

I hope you get many trouble-free miles out of this repair - it's time to ride!

greenwald said:

I (and too many others) feel your pain. My first FD failure on my R1200RT was at 49k - second one started at 75k.

Personally, I don't think BMW is entirely clueless as to the FD snafu. I suspect the 'fix' is simply way too expensive (probably, a complete re-design) to be contemplated - ergo, they will just limp along with little impotent tweaks from time to time, as long as sales figures remain robust.

I hope you get many trouble-free miles out of this repair - it's time to ride!

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The redesign was implemented with the Wethead. Fingers crossed, they seem to be doing great on the FD!

Jim

jimvonbaden said:

The redesign was implemented with the Wethead. Fingers crossed, they seem to be doing great on the FD!

Jim

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Do you happen to have specifics (in layman's language, please) as to what is different?

greenwald said:

Do you happen to have specifics (in layman's language, please) as to what is different?

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No. Currently BMW isn't selling internal parts for the FD, so it is not possible to tell without disassembling them. It is presumed that the K1600 FD internals are in the new Wethead housing. If so, then the design is beefed up.

Jim

jimvonbaden said:

It is presumed that the K1600 FD internals are in the new Wethead housing. If so, then the design is beefed up.

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The RTW and GSW final drives are the basically identical (other than 2.75 vs. 2.91) -- down to the three unused threaded GS fender mounting holes on the RTW final drives. The K16 final drive is larger (beefier). I've been up close and personal to both, so I've seen/noticed the side difference (I've only seen them externally -- I cannot confirm, but I suspect based on the external views that the K16 pinion/crown gear won't fit in the RTW/GSW housing).

No way of telling whether there were component or process improvements in the K16 final drive that made it to the RTW final drives, but if they did you'd expect them to be in the GSW's final drives, too, because the K16's FD predates both of them (2011 vs. 2013/2014).

That said, it doesn't appear that K16-level hardware is needed -- the wethead drives have been out for a couple years now, with none of the troubles that plagued the first of the hexhead big hole final drives when the '05 GS was first released.

mneblett said:

The RTW and GSW final drives are the basically identical (other than 2.75 vs. 2.91) -- down to the three unused threaded GS fender mounting holes on the RTW final drives. The K16 final drive is larger (beefier). I've been up close and personal to both, so I've seen/noticed the side difference (I've only seen them externally -- I cannot confirm, but I suspect based on the external views that the K16 pinion/crown gear won't fit in the RTW/GSW housing).

No way of telling whether there were component or process improvements in the K16 final drive that made it to the RTW final drives, but if they did you'd expect them to be in the GSW's final drives, too, because the K16's FD predates both of them (2011 vs. 2013/2014).

That said, it doesn't appear that K16-level hardware is needed -- the wethead drives have been out for a couple years now, with none of the troubles that plagued the first of the hexhead big hole final drives when the '05 GS was first released.

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I've seen them up close too. But, like you, I have not taken them apart. Since they are the same general dimensions I still believe that the design is the same, and most likely internal parts are similar. No way to know for sure wither way since BMW does not sell internal components yet.

Jim

1999 K1200RS Final Drive Failure

Had a failure at 10740 and now one at 26,488. This does not seem normal. What is one to do.

paxton3x@att.net said:

Had a failure at 10740 and now one at 26,488. This does not seem normal. What is one to do.

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Post in the K-bike section for starters.

That said, did they rebuild or replace your first one? Who did the maintenance?

Jim

Fianl drive interchangeability

wyman.winn said:

yes, my spare FD is from a 2013 Anniv. Edition (zero miles)...the 2007 and 2013 are NOT interchangeable

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I beg to disagree. They are interchangeable. I did just that.

In 2018, even though I had changed the fluid regularly and carefully, the FD of my 2007 RT became noisy and I had to have it overhauled at 100691 km by an out-of-town dealer (I had to get towed there because the fuel pump had failed so I had asked them to look at the FD) - they told me they had done what they could and that it may not hold much longer. Sure enough, the FD failed again seven weeks later (this time it was really dead - the wheel was getting loose...) at 113163 km and I decided to look for a used one. I ended up installing a pristine 2013 FD I found on Ebay. I had verified in the parts fiches that the part numbers for the swingarms and attachments were the same as the older Gen II ABS model drive (not a GEN I - very important). I did the work myself and the replacement was very easy - fits perfectly. Two years and 20000km of two-up travel later, a lot of it on terrible roads in Canada, the US and Mexico, that FD is still good.

What changed is that BMW fitted a drain plug in 2008 and added a breather cap a couple of years later. Hence, the FD part for Gen II ABS FDs to 2009 is now 33 11 7 726 895, with the breather... same P/N as for the 2010 to 2013. I also found out around 2012 that the outer shaft seal also changed at some point, BMW made the ID a little bit smaller.

IMO, it would, however, be counterproductive to put an old 2007 drive in a 2013 bike - the more recent design is an improvement. I do not know, however, if inner parts were improved upon. Also, putting a 2007 FD implies than any prospective buyer of the bike should be clearly informed of the "retrofit".

196056 said:

I beg to disagree. They are interchangeable. I did just that.

In 2018, even though I had changed the fluid regularly and carefully, the FD of my 2007 RT became noisy and I had to have it overhauled at 100691 km by an out-of-town dealer (I had to get towed there because the fuel pump had failed so I had asked them to look at the FD) - they told me they had done what they could and that it may not hold much longer. Sure enough, the FD failed again seven weeks later (this time it was really dead - the wheel was getting loose...) at 113163 km and I decided to look for a used one. I ended up installing a pristine 2013 FD I found on Ebay. I had verified in the parts fiches that the part numbers for the swingarms and attachments were the same as the older Gen II ABS model drive (not a GEN I - very important). I did the work myself and the replacement was very easy - fits perfectly. Two years and 20000km of two-up travel later, a lot of it on terrible roads in Canada, the US and Mexico, that FD is still good.

What changed is that BMW fitted a drain plug in 2008 and added a breather cap a couple of years later. Hence, the FD part for Gen II ABS FDs to 2009 is now 33 11 7 726 895, with the breather... same P/N as for the 2010 to 2013. I also found out around 2012 that the outer shaft seal also changed at some point, BMW made the ID a little bit smaller.

IMO, it would, however, be counterproductive to put an old 2007 drive in a 2013 bike - the more recent design is an improvement. I do not know, however, if inner parts were improved upon. Also, putting a 2007 FD implies than any prospective buyer of the bike should be clearly informed of the "retrofit".

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yup, now i agree...have done a couple swaps with just this outcome...but using the older version without the drain plus is kind of a pain for FD oil changes....

good work...

196056 said:

I beg to disagree. They are interchangeable. I did just that.

In 2018, even though I had changed the fluid regularly and carefully, the FD of my 2007 RT became noisy and I had to have it overhauled at 100691 km by an out-of-town dealer (I had to get towed there because the fuel pump had failed so I had asked them to look at the FD) - they told me they had done what they could and that it may not hold much longer. Sure enough, the FD failed again seven weeks later (this time it was really dead - the wheel was getting loose...) at 113163 km and I decided to look for a used one. I ended up installing a pristine 2013 FD I found on Ebay. I had verified in the parts fiches that the part numbers for the swingarms and attachments were the same as the older Gen II ABS model drive (not a GEN I - very important). I did the work myself and the replacement was very easy - fits perfectly. Two years and 20000km of two-up travel later, a lot of it on terrible roads in Canada, the US and Mexico, that FD is still good.

What changed is that BMW fitted a drain plug in 2008 and added a breather cap a couple of years later. Hence, the FD part for Gen II ABS FDs to 2009 is now 33 11 7 726 895, with the breather... same P/N as for the 2010 to 2013. I also found out around 2012 that the outer shaft seal also changed at some point, BMW made the ID a little bit smaller.

IMO, it would, however, be counterproductive to put an old 2007 drive in a 2013 bike - the more recent design is an improvement. I do not know, however, if inner parts were improved upon. Also, putting a 2007 FD implies than any prospective buyer of the bike should be clearly informed of the "retrofit".

Click to expand...

The bearing that fails is a sealed bearing, so while regular maintenance is a good idea, the fluid doesn't lubricate it. I have a 2009 RT. No vent on it. The replacements do. So far it's been ok. Nock on wood.