Front Tire Wears Faster Than Rear!

ricochetrider · Apr 29, 2015

Took my K1200 RS to the local BMW dealership to have some lighting installed and figured they might was well inspect it while it's in there.
Two years ago, they put brand new Pilot Road 3s on the bike.

Now, I have 5 bikes, so tho I'm not certain how many miles I have on these tires, I've taken no major trips. I know on my airhead, I put several thousand on last summer. I've asked the dealership to search their records to tell me what the mileage on the bike is VS when they put the tires on... I'm GUESSING maybe 8,000 miles, maybe more?

Anyway, last night I get a call from them saying of the front tire is worn enough that it will not pass state inspection!

I've tried diligently to maintain their 36F/42R air pressure recommendation.... To keep a reasonably sharp eye on pressure.
And to my eye the tires LOOK great!
Yet still, they're not gonna pass it.

They want over 200.00 for the tire, AmericanMotoTire.com wants around 130.00! Now of course that's a 70.00 +/- savings. And of course IF they sell you a tire they have a dealer warranty that says something like they'll guarantee mileage, incidental puncture, etc for the period of one year from time of sale/install. IS that "worth" the extra cash? I think not.

BUT I've also never heard of a front wearing out before the rear tire! Usually, I'll run two to one rear to front.

I believe I'll pop over there this morning and hold em up on putting their tires on, buy a new pair from A M T for WAY less, have them shipped to velocity (free, FAST shipping) and save the $$$ and aggravation.

PS I accept full responsibility for somehow wearing out this nice expensive tire.

Ok let me have it. :wave

Ridefar · Apr 29, 2015

If you feel like you are being held hostage by the dealer over this, if it were me I would take the bike and move on. Depends upon your relationship with this dealer. Have they tried to work you over in the past? If the tire is somehow dry rotted, it may have plenty of visual tread but is a safety issue and needs to be replaced.
Its always cheaper to purchase tires online, but they don't just mount and balance themselves. It takes specialized equipment, tools and knowledge.
I have found that sometimes it is just more prudent to step up and pay the man.
Best of luck to you.

pauls1150 · Apr 29, 2015

1) Have to ask if the wheel was properly balanced after the tire was installed...

2) That "recommendation" of 36 psi sounds low (and 42 in the rear may be just a tad high)... Look at the sidewall, and find the MANUFACTURER'S "Maximum Cold" recommendation, subtract about 10 to 15%, and that's your starting point. "Cold" means before you set out and ride a couple of miles. And make sure your personal tire gauge is reading right by comparing it to several others.

lkchris · Apr 29, 2015

Standard inflation pressure for a 120/70-17 is 36 psi

sailorlite · Apr 29, 2015

I presume your dealer is proposing PR4's now, not PR3's, and you're comparing apples to apples price-wise. How much do they charge for mounting and balancing, and is that for a ride-in or wheel off bike? FWIW, I budget about $240 out-the-door for a ride-in front PR4. That includes coffee and chit-chat while I wait around.

Moto316 · Apr 29, 2015

There is no "standard" air pressure for tires. It depends on how you are riding; solo or two up, lots of luggage? Each situation requires a different air pressure setting. You should adjust the air pressure according to how you are going to ride your particular motorcycle that day. A quick check on Michelin's website confirms that you need to follow the recommendation of the motorcycle manufacture for proper air pressure of "their" tires.

Screen Shot 2015-04-29 at 9.32.43 AM.jpg

JWMcDonald · Apr 29, 2015

What is the reason that the tire will not pass?

Ask the dealer to cite the statute / rule / etc - not just that the dealer sez it won't pass.

Without a specification that they are willing to state, I smell this from afar.

BC1100S · Apr 29, 2015

I've often had front tires wear out prior to the rear. A lot depends on one's riding style, the type of roads you're on, the bike upon which the tires are mounted, and the type of tire one is using.

Secondly, buy your tires wherever you feel comfortable spending money. This subject has recently been beaten to death here so I'll refrain from further comment.

ricochetrider · Apr 29, 2015

Dealer said there are only 2 thou of tread left, 4 thou required to pass PA state insp.
These guys are as OK as any BMW dealership. They do solid work but there always seems to be an oh-by-the-way factor.

This was a Pilot Road three with roughly. 6K on it. Yes they put a PR4 on.
American Moto Tire has the PR4 in my size at around. 130 ~ and yeah ya stil gotta get it out on and blanced, recycle the old tire etc.

In the end, I have a good relationship with these guys, they work on my K bikes when need be.
I've been making a point to be more diligent about air pressure, anyway- I'll look at the tire instead of following g the dealer 36/42 rule, adjust up/ down according to what I'm doing, and see how it goes.
Of course at the end of the day....
It's only money.

Omega Man · Apr 29, 2015

FWIW, I have watched front tire wear enough that I have found that I can change (make that "effect") the front tire wear characteristics with air pressure adjustments.
OM

pglaves · Apr 29, 2015

That is a big heavy bike that has a bit of a reputation for wearing front tires as fast or faster than the rear tires. It takes effort to turn and stop the beast.

rad · Apr 29, 2015

As Paul stated, the bike makes a difference. My RT ate front tires. Yes, I rode it hard. Most of my other bikes the rear went first. And yes, tires cost a lot! Like many here I mail order mine and mount them myself.

36654 · Apr 30, 2015

bmwrider88 said:
Took my K1200 RS to the local BMW dealership to have some lighting installed and figured they might was well inspect it while it's in there.
Two years ago, they put brand new Pilot Road 3s on the bike.

Now, I have 5 bikes, so tho I'm not certain how many miles I have on these tires, I've taken no major trips. I know on my airhead, I put several thousand on last summer. I've asked the dealership to search their records to tell me what the mileage on the bike is VS when they put the tires on... I'm GUESSING maybe 8,000 miles, maybe more?

Anyway, last night I get a call from them saying of the front tire is worn enough that it will not pass state inspection!

I've tried diligently to maintain their 36F/42R air pressure recommendation.... To keep a reasonably sharp eye on pressure.
And to my eye the tires LOOK great!
Yet still, they're not gonna pass it.

They want over 200.00 for the tire, AmericanMotoTire.com wants around 130.00! Now of course that's a 70.00 +/- savings. And of course IF they sell you a tire they have a dealer warranty that says something like they'll guarantee mileage, incidental puncture, etc for the period of one year from time of sale/install. IS that "worth" the extra cash? I think not.

BUT I've also never heard of a front wearing out before the rear tire! Usually, I'll run two to one rear to front.

I believe I'll pop over there this morning and hold em up on putting their tires on, buy a new pair from A M T for WAY less, have them shipped to velocity (free, FAST shipping) and save the $$$ and aggravation.

PS I accept full responsibility for somehow wearing out this nice expensive tire.

Ok let me have it.

In my experience, on an Oilhead, 8K isn't bad, 10K is great for mileage on the PR3's and using PA inspection criteria. While the rest of tire might look great, it's always the wear bars that get you.

http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/data/vol33/33-48/2265.html

In theory, there's only 2/32" of thread below the top of the wear bars, but it always seems like more is there and, of course, the wear is always on one side. As Charlie Brown says.......ARGGGHH!

Now, relative to the cost.........when I'm not feeling over generous to the retail sector and always in the case of a BMW front wheel, I dismount the wheel myself and take it to the local Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki dealership for the tire change and balance. The pimple faced kid does as good a job as Gunther the BMW tech and charges less.

But, that is just me..........

ricochetrider · Apr 30, 2015

I guess there are about as many, or more factors in tire wear as there are different road surfaces and riding styles.

Tires on this bike tend to seem scalloped or flatter on one side rather than the other, I guess that could be a combination or road crown, air pressure, and maybe riding style or torque/twist in the bike itself.

"Good" to know the K1200 is a known tire burner... Thanks, Paul!
And really, 6K?
I've gotten far less out of tires on other bikes. Far less expensive tires, mind you... But far less mileage out of them.

I have four bikes now, used to have five. So it's not like I'm piling miles onto one bike or another- specially if I am not taking trips or doing heavy commenting on them. This bike got ~6K miles IN 2 YEARS! So let's say that's two full riding seasons out of that tire.

Dividing the cost of the tire by number of miles ridden...
If it's ~6000 > ~230.00 that's ~0.03833333333333333 dollars per (s)mile.

Quite the bargain, as it turns out!

jeffd · Apr 30, 2015

I have not had good luck running the "recommended" pressure in the front on my K1200GT. I have found that 40/41 works best for me riding 1 up. Currently have just under 16K miles on front and rear so I have a set of PR4s on order from my local independent shop. Now I am sure that I don't ride as hard as a lot of you but I used to only get 5-7K before switching to the PR3s.
Jeff

BC1100S · Apr 30, 2015

One other thing to consider on bikes with a telelever front end. As you have probably noticed, the front end does not dive when the brakes are applied. This lack of dive also reduces weight transfer thereby reducing traction and tending to "push" the front tire across the pavement, scrubbing off rubber.

As well, one might also take care on how much air one pumps into one's tires. While you might experience increased tire life, you may also experience a reduction in grip.

Just my two cents...

BMW Triumphant · Apr 30, 2015

BC1100S said:
One other thing to consider on bikes with a telelever front end. As you have probably noticed, the front end does not dive when the brakes are applied. This lack of dive also reduces weight transfer thereby reducing traction and tending to "push" the front tire across the pavement, scrubbing off rubber.

As well, one might also take care on how much air one pumps into one's tires. While you might experience increased tire life, you may also experience a reduction in grip.

Just my two cents...

I think the weight transfer does take place, but the telelever prevents suspension collapse. The deceleration force acts on the contact patches which are below the centre of gravity. The distance down from the CG to the road is a moment arm. Thus, a torque is created that causes a rotation around the CG which we call a "weight transfer". If my analysis is wrong, I hope someone will correct it.

If traction is reduced while braking, I would think the front wheel might start to lock up and if it does, the rubber will scrub of course. But, I would hope the ABS would pulse. I don't get this under braking on my RT. Now, I suppose there might be some micro force acting the way you suggest, but I really can't imagine that would cause excessive tire wear. Again, If my thinking is wrong, please let's have a better explanation.

BC1100S · Apr 30, 2015

BMW Triumphant said:
Now, I suppose there might be some micro force acting the way you suggest, but I really can't imagine that would cause excessive tire wear.

Hey, its a pet theory and therefore immune to third party objective analysis.

No doubt weight transfer does occur however I believe its not as much as what would happen with a conventional front end. With the forks not exerting as much downforce on the tire, there is less traction and therefore more (very slight) sliding. If you've ever had a car with differentially sized, directional wheels/tires (which cannot be rotated to other positions on the vehicle) you may have noticed that the wear pattern on the front tires is mainly on the leading edge of the tread blocks. This is partially due to the sliding/skidding I'm talking about. It is so slight that the ABS wouldn't detect it but it is enough to cause additional wear.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

natrab · May 1, 2015

BC1100S said:
Hey, its a pet theory and therefore immune to third party objective analysis.

No doubt weight transfer does occur however I believe its not as much as what would happen with a conventional front end. With the forks not exerting as much downforce on the tire, there is less traction and therefore more (very slight) sliding. If you've ever had a car with differentially sized, directional wheels/tires (which cannot be rotated to other positions on the vehicle) you may have noticed that the wear pattern on the front tires is mainly on the leading edge of the tread blocks. This is partially due to the sliding/skidding I'm talking about. It is so slight that the ABS wouldn't detect it but it is enough to cause additional wear.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Here's a twist to this. I find it doubtful that the front end is sliding much (or more than anything else) during braking as my RT can out brake most other bikes while doing proper threshold braking. If it were sliding, the effect would be noticeable and most likely would activate the ABS (a VERY noticeable effect). However, the telelever front end does reduce front end dive which for me, at least, alters the way I ride. It especially encourages me to use more trail braking than I often would on other bikes, which means more tire wear on the sides of the front as well (instead of in the center from more upright braking).

That said, front tire wear is drastically affected by riding style. A rider who slows earlier and uses more engine braking (in theory) should have less wear on the front than someone who brakes aggressively to a stop most of the time. I also get a lot of wear to the sides of my front from aggressive riding on hot days as the siping on the PR3s and 4s tends to get weird cupping (the rubber by the sipes kind of peels outward). I have a bunch of long, fast sweeping turns on my daily commute that do this to my front. I still tend to get 13-14k out of my PR4 GTs and I often retire them before they have reached the wear bars due to the terrible feel they get from that siping deformity.

BC1100S · May 1, 2015

natrab said:
If it were sliding, the effect would be noticeable....

No, actually it wouldn't. We need to understand that the amount of "sliding" I'm talking about is fractionally small - but significant enough to cause additional wear. Your tire slides all the time. If it didn't, it wouldn't wear out.

Lastly, before we beat the hell out of the subject, those are my final thoughts.

Front Tire Wears Faster Than Rear!

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