Motorcycle reliability comparison

I think there is a great deal of rationalizing going on here. More likely than not the CU report is a fair representation of the truth. The specific percentage provided for each brand is less instructive than where a brand sits in relationship to its competitors. We can do whatever we want with the information, but I hope BMW takes it to heart and focuses more on quality control, even if it means slowing the pace of innovation and the adoption of new technology.

akbeemer said:

I think there is a great deal of rationalizing going on here. More likely than not the CU report is a fair representation of the truth. The specific percentage provided for each brand is less instructive than where a brand sits in relationship to its competitors. We can do whatever we want with the information, but I hope BMW takes it to heart and focuses more on quality control, even if it means slowing the pace of innovation and the adoption of new technology.

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You swing a remarkably accurate and insightful hammer.

Oddly enough, I have found that my BMW cars as reliable (or more reliable) than the Toyota Camry that my mother in law drivers...

Yes, the BMWs have had some features break, but none of them are things that would leave you stranded. The Camry, on the other hand, has had more recalls than all of the other cars I've owned... combined.

If that's "reliability", I'm not sure I want it.

I just bought my 2005 R1200RT, so I'm not sure how reliable it is going to be, but I got it for the same reason that I drive BMW cars... they have a character and feel that IMO surpasses the other choices, especially for my intended uses.

alegerlotz said:

Oddly enough, I have found that my BMW cars as reliable (or more reliable) than the Toyota Camry that my mother in law drivers...

Yes, the BMWs have had some features break, but none of them are things that would leave you stranded. The Camry, on the other hand, has had more recalls than all of the other cars I've owned... combined.

If that's "reliability", I'm not sure I want it.

I just bought my 2005 R1200RT, so I'm not sure how reliable it is going to be, but I got it for the same reason that I drive BMW cars... they have a character and feel that IMO surpasses the other choices, especially for my intended uses.

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Then you've never owned a 3 liter twin turbo from 2008 to 2012 (found in many many of their models). The high pressure fuel pumps would quit without notice and leave one stranded and did so many many times. Or the 5 Series auto trans linkage separation....bring the flat bed we got another one. BMW's are also known for their radiator/water pump failures...as in make it a routine service item to replace them. And electrical issues are another issue unto themselves. Just to name a few.

akbeemer said:

We can do whatever we want with the information, but I hope BMW takes it to heart and focuses more on quality control, even if it means slowing the pace of innovation and the adoption of new technology.

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I would like to see them do that as well. BMW Motorrad has been spiting out new models left and right the last few years, and increasing sales each year without seeming to focus on quality control, the 2014 RT shock being the latest example, so I doubt that we will see a change in their business model as long as sales continue to increase. In this case, even if it is broke, don't fix it.

One thing I think will be interesting to see in the next couple of years, is whether or not BMW will keep the increase going. Their sales increased during the largest economic downturn in over 75 years, while the Japanese bike market fell off a cliff. It has been said that the rich always have money, so high end products such as BMW may fare better in a down economy. Now that the economy is getting stronger, I wonder if the Japanese may begin to take back some of that market share.

Motodan said:

Then you've never owned a 3 liter twin turbo from 2008 to 2012 (found in many many of their models). The high pressure fuel pumps would quit without notice and leave one stranded and did so many many times. Or the 5 Series auto trans linkage separation....bring the flat bed we got another one. BMW's are also known for their radiator/water pump failures...as in make it a routine service item to replace them. And electrical issues are another issue unto themselves. Just to name a few.

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I have not owned either of the vehicles you've mentioned over my 26 years of BMW car ownership.

It sounds like your experience has been much worse than mine...

Fun discussion!!

Is reliability our major decision criteria for buying a motorcycle...let alone a BMW?

I love the look and promise of the new R1200RS...but the old Yamaha FRJ is likely more reliable, cheaper and faster. ps I'm not buying a FRJ but have order an R1200RS...go figure!!

If I let my mother (bless her heart) make a rational decision on motorcycles for me, I'd be driving a pick-up!

ducster said:

I would like to see them do that as well. BMW Motorrad has been spiting out new models left and right the last few years, and increasing sales each year without seeming to focus on quality control, the 2014 RT shock being the latest example, so I doubt that we will see a change in their business model as long as sales continue to increase. In this case, even if it is broke, don't fix it.

One thing I think will be interesting to see in the next couple of years, is whether or not BMW will keep the increase going. Their sales increased during the largest economic downturn in over 75 years, while the Japanese bike market fell off a cliff. It has been said that the rich always have money, so high end products such as BMW may fare better in a down economy. Now that the economy is getting stronger, I wonder if the Japanese may begin to take back some of that market share.

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Recuring problems....manufacturers should do better. The 2014 shock problem, admitting BMWNA shucked, was the shock suppliers fault. I thought BMW took care of the problem as quickly as possible and was reasonable with compensation. This is like an oil thread, many opinions but facts, not so much. I like my bike. If a person doesn't like BMW products they look like fools talking bad about them but still buying and using them.

bdfbeemer said:

Recuring problems....manufacturers should do better. The 2014 shock problem, admitting BMWNA shucked, was the shock suppliers fault. I thought BMW took care of the problem as quickly as possible and was reasonable with compensation. This is like an oil thread, many opinions but facts, not so much. I like my bike. If a person doesn't like BMW products they look like fools talking bad about them but still buying and using them.

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Huge difference between liking or not liking and wishing BMW's were more reliable. Definitely like the bike, but they could do with fewer quality control issues, especially given the premium pricing model they use.

bdfbeemer said:

Recuring problems....manufacturers should do better. The 2014 shock problem, admitting BMWNA shucked, was the shock suppliers fault. I thought BMW took care of the problem as quickly as possible and was reasonable with compensation. This is like an oil thread, many opinions but facts, not so much. I like my bike. If a person doesn't like BMW products they look like fools talking bad about them but still buying and using them.

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THE 2014 RT shock failure was the supplier's fault. BMW still has to bear the responsibility for the problem, which they did, but had more thorough testing been done, wouldn't the problem have been uncovered BEFORE thousands of bikes arrived at dealerships around the world and kept those who purchased one of those bikes from having it be garage art for a summer?

If pointing out problems with BMW motorcycles by their owners makes them seem like fools to you, well that is just an opinion as well. I don't recall reading in the BMWMOA rules that criticizing BMW was verboten, though there are certainly some around here who would like for it to be.

Five years ago I bought a 2006 R1200RT because I had read and heard good things about it. Most of which are true. I was not really aware at the time of some of the reliability issues concerning BMW's, so I guess I have to take blame for not doing due diligence in the search process. Although I do still currently have the RT, I have found a sweet deal on new 2014 Kawasaki Concours 14. As soon I as can make someone else the happy owner of my RT, I won't be one of those who owns BMW and talks "bad" about them. Just an ex-owner who does.

ducster said:

THE 2014 RT shock failure was the supplier's fault. BMW still has to bear the responsibility for the problem

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I don't think the distinction between BMW and a vendor is meaningful. It's a BMW product and they bear responsibility for it.

BMW cars and bikes routinely suffer reliability issues when new technologies, usually electronic, are introduced. My experience suggests waiting a year, or two, after a new model or technology introduction.

36654 said:

I don't think the distinction between BMW and a vendor is meaningful. It's a BMW product and they bear responsibility for it.

BMW cars and bikes routinely suffer reliability issues when new technologies, usually electronic, are introduced. My experience suggests waiting a year, or two, after a new model or technology introduction.

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+1

I imagine the great majority of vehicles of every type are built with parts from a long list of vendors. Once a manufacturer puts their label on the vehicle they own responsibility for it lock, stock and barrel. I saw a list of parts that are used in building a HD once. It was pretty surprising how many parts are farmed out to other companies in other nations... and they are well above BMW in CU's reliability rating.

I think we'd be better off acknowledging that BMW has some problems and encouraging them to address them. Their sales have remained strong and I can only surmise that they will get even better if they are consistently rated at the top of the heap. I imagine many other MOA members are like me and visit the forums of other makes regularly. In my case it is a couple of FJR forums. BMW is often belittled on those forums when news like this come out, but there are also many current and former BMW owners on the FJR forums as well.

akbeemer said:

I imagine the great majority of vehicles of every type are built with parts from a long list of vendors.

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Here's one here. Their customers are, among others, Chrysler, Ford, and GM.

http://www.magna.com/

But as has been stated, vendor issues become the issues the marque has to reconcile with their customers. To switch gears, perhaps the shock issue on the RTs had a overly-weighted negative effect on the Consumer Reports BMW rating.

Kawasaki Concours

Seems like I read that the normal maintainance was a pretty expensive affair. Your RT on the other had has the heads right out in the open where you can check the valve clearance even if you aren't capable or don't want to change the shim if necessary. Valve adjustments are going to be more complicated on any vertical twin, triple, quad, or 6 cylinder motors.

I just wonder about the advantage of going to a motor oil lubed transmission. Transmission gears wear. Most all of them have magnets on the drain plug, and are almost always collecting fuzz. Metal fuzz!. That said there are a lot of high mileage Goldwings out there.

But if the Concours makes you happy, go for it.

akbeemer said:

It was pretty surprising how many parts are farmed out to other companies in other nations...

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+1 One particular nation that I worry about makes quite a bit of junk for the American market. I wonder if they are making parts for BMW.

On my 16th BMW since 2001. I had no idea they were such junk. If only I'd seen this report sooner.

akbeemer said:

But so far the Yamaha has had zero recalls and no failures.

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Some of their models not so fortunate.
From BR&TMR today:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners...searchCriteria.nhtsa_ids=15V176000&refurl=rss

gfspencer said:

+1 One particular nation that I worry about makes quite a bit of junk for the American market. I wonder if they are making parts for BMW.

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BMW uses the same parts suppliers as all the car companies. Thus, your question is answered.

I have ridden BMW motorcycles, now... For 30 years. It is often not been my only bike. yes, it breaks sometimes, but reading about motorcycles in consumer reports is like trying to learn about boats... Well... From consumer reports. The same study also said the failures cost less than 200 bucks and owners are most satisfied with the most failing bikes.

i just ignore it and ride.


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What bothers me the most is known problems being carried over from year to year. A perfect example is the clutch nut o-rings. Had to replace it on my '93 K1100 and now my '03 K1200 is showing signs of the same issue. It was not a new issue in 1993. I would think a different material or solution could have cured the problem long ago. It is a very expensive repair just to replace a simple o-ring.
Jeff