Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: Output shaft on 1150 transmissions?

  1. #1

    Output shaft on 1150 transmissions?

    Can someone please explain to me why BMW has so much trouble with splines? On the old Airheads it was the final drive splines. On the 1150 oil heads itís the transmission output splines. My bike has 30,000 on it and I baby the heck out of it. I donít know if the output shaft splines are bad or not. Iím going to tear it down in a week or two and give it a look see. I have to do other maintenance anyway might as well go through the whole thing anyway. Iíll clean it up and through a little sturbach paste on it. Iím sure it probably going to be ok. Just has me wondering...., thoughts?

  2. #2
    Think of it as bonding with your machine. Be sure to check paralever bearings, driveshaft joints, various seals, and the clutch slave cylinder while you are in there. Resist the urge to pull it off in one big chunk as if the splines are the only component to consider. As far as why, well heck, it is just a characteristic of the machines. If you don't want to mess with it you can buy a Japanese machine that might as well say "Kelvinator" on the side of it. I think of it as being half-way to a Ducati on the owner involvement vs. character scale.
    Lee A. Dickinson - Danielsville, GA USA
    MOA 80364 | RA 29650 | ABC 3480 | IBA 8914
    1976 R75/6 - 1992 R100RS - 1993 K1100RS - 2013 R1200GS

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by beemerphile View Post
    Think of it as bonding with your machine. Be sure to check paralever bearings, driveshaft joints, various seals, and the clutch slave cylinder while you are in there. Resist the urge to pull it off in one big chunk as if the splines are the only component to consider. As far as why, well heck, it is just a characteristic of the machines. If you don't want to mess with it you can buy a Japanese machine that might as well say "Kelvinator" on the side of it. I think of it as being half-way to a Ducati on the owner involvement vs. character scale.
    Oh believe me. Iím not going in there looking for trouble. Iím not having any issues should I just leave it alone? I kinda figured it had 30,000 on it and Iíve never had it apart it wouldnít hurt to go give it a look.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by taunton64 View Post
    Oh believe me. Iím not going in there looking for trouble. Iím not having any issues should I just leave it alone? I kinda figured it had 30,000 on it and Iíve never had it apart it wouldnít hurt to go give it a look.
    I would go in looking for trouble. It is ok to hope you don't find it, but the peace of mind that comes from laying hands on the important parts and knowing their condition is significant - to some. To others, run her till she poops parts. I"d rather know.
    Lee A. Dickinson - Danielsville, GA USA
    MOA 80364 | RA 29650 | ABC 3480 | IBA 8914
    1976 R75/6 - 1992 R100RS - 1993 K1100RS - 2013 R1200GS

  5. #5
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sechelt, British Columbia
    Posts
    2,622

    It's the transmission INPUT spline that has issues

    I have yet to see an output shaft spline issue.

    That being said there has been lots written and discussed on the input shaft problem.
    Google the problem and you will have you hours of reading.

    IMO the problem stems from the input shaft being 6mm short of full hub contact.
    The power pulses from the big twin is very hard on the splines as the clutch disc only has a flex plate, no springs.
    The stock input shaft splines are also too soft.
    I had issues years ago on my 1150GS and had a longer input shaft custom made which afforded full contact of the splines.
    It was successful for me as I have 112,000 miles on it to date and upon inspection 30,000 miles ago it was perfect.
    I was not successful at the time selling any as people were not willing to pay the higher price (3x) and I needed a firm commitment for a 10 unit run.

    Another solution that some are trying for for full spline engagement is installing a spacer on the clutch disc. The Mileage jury is presently out on this.
    An very nice inmate on ADV was selling a kit to do that. He no longer does as BB now sells a disc that has an extended hub. https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cla33264.html
    I have just installed one on my 1150RT to test.

    Regular lubrication of the splines with a quality moly grease is an excellent PM but is a very labour intensive process
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by GSAddict; 01-06-2018 at 08:39 PM.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    I have yet to see an output shaft spline issue.

    That being said there has been lots written and discussed on the input shaft problem.
    Google the problem and you will have you hours of reading.

    IMO the problem stems from the input shaft being 6mm short of full hub contact.
    The power pulses from the big twin is very hard on the splines as the clutch disc only has a flex plate, no springs.
    The stock input shaft splines are also too soft.
    I had issues years ago on my 1150GS and had a longer input shaft custom made which afforded full contact of the splines.
    It was successful for me as I have 112,000 miles on it to date and upon inspection 30,000 miles ago it was perfect.
    I was not successful at the time selling any as people were not willing to pay the higher price (3x) and I needed a firm commitment for a 10 unit run.

    Another solution that some are trying for for full spline engagement is installing a spacer on the clutch disc. The Mileage jury is presently out on this.
    An very nice inmate on ADV was selling a kit to do that. He no longer does as BB now sells a disc that has an extended hub. https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cla33264.html
    I have just installed one on my 1150RT to test.

    Regular lubrication of the splines with a quality moly grease is an excellent PM but is a very labour intensive process
    yep. My mistake. I meant input shaft. Sorry folks my mistake. Iíll dig into it soon and give it a look. Either way Iíll clean it up if not worn and put a little starbach paste on it. Might have spelled that wrong.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    I have yet to see an output shaft spline issue.

    That being said there has been lots written and discussed on the input shaft problem.
    Google the problem and you will have you hours of reading.

    IMO the problem stems from the input shaft being 6mm short of full hub contact.
    The power pulses from the big twin is very hard on the splines as the clutch disc only has a flex plate, no springs.
    The stock input shaft splines are also too soft.
    I had issues years ago on my 1150GS and had a longer input shaft custom made which afforded full contact of the splines.
    It was successful for me as I have 112,000 miles on it to date and upon inspection 30,000 miles ago it was perfect.
    I was not successful at the time selling any as people were not willing to pay the higher price (3x) and I needed a firm commitment for a 10 unit run.

    Another solution that some are trying for for full spline engagement is installing a spacer on the clutch disc. The Mileage jury is presently out on this.
    An very nice inmate on ADV was selling a kit to do that. He no longer does as BB now sells a disc that has an extended hub. https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cla33264.html
    I have just installed one on my 1150RT to test.

    Regular lubrication of the splines with a quality moly grease is an excellent PM but is a very labour intensive process
    I just looked it up on the boneyard. If Iím going to dig into this and lube up the splines anyway I might as well change the disk and be done with it. This was very helpful. Thanks

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by taunton64 View Post
    If I’m going to dig into this and lube up the splines anyway I might as well change the disk and be done with it.
    +1... that would be my advice.

    I'm running the spacer on two bikes and the extended hub on two others.... the spacers went on bikes with perfect splines as a precaution. The extended hubs went on bikes that had failed splines. Time (and miles) will tell.

  9. #9
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sechelt, British Columbia
    Posts
    2,622
    Quote Originally Posted by taunton64 View Post
    I just looked it up on the boneyard. If I’m going to dig into this and lube up the splines anyway I might as well change the disk and be done with it. This was very helpful. Thanks
    Just a heads up if you do.

    Check both pressure plates for flat with a machinists straight edge.
    If they are dished at all replace them as well.
    If you don't, there is a reasonable risk that the new clutch disc will slip on hard acceleration.

    Most Dealers won't do a clutch job unless all components are replaced and
    the one time I tried it, it slipped.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    20

    Can there be a Clutch modify !!

    If I had the shop inspect the clutch, would it be possible to shim, machine a solid piece, or cut a section from another spline and insert that between the units?? It looks like a better clutch is available through the shop you recommend, but not for the RS model, just the R clutch. I don't suppose there is a way to get the right length without a whole new shaft, like you did?? Is there a way to solve this without a 500 dollar or more bill ??

    Darn, there is a lot to fix on these things, Cal

  11. #11
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sechelt, British Columbia
    Posts
    2,622
    Quote Originally Posted by calsgone View Post
    If I had the shop inspect the clutch, would it be possible to shim, machine a solid piece, or cut a section from another spline and insert that between the units?? It looks like a better clutch is available through the shop you recommend, but not for the RS model, just the R clutch. I don't suppose there is a way to get the right length without a whole new shaft, like you did?? Is there a way to solve this without a 500 dollar or more bill ??

    Darn, there is a lot to fix on these things, Cal
    If you have an R1150RS it will fit your bike. That clutch disc fits all 1150 6speed bikes as well as the R1100S
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  12. #12
    I have an R1150R with 177,000 miles on the second clutch disk and original input shaft. I haven't looked in a few K miles but can say with assurance that good periodic lubrication is a good thing.

    p.s. the nasty engine sounds do not make me happy but are not coming from the clutch.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    20

    modified clutch plate also '97 RS ??

    Sounds like that better extended spline plate will also fit the r1100RS abs. ?? Not much difference in motors, but I'm far from a pro. I do wonder why BMW didn't just switch to a stacked wet clutch with an oil sump, been used for decades and they have room, oh well.

    Looking at a spline lube now at 35 k, unless the owner has paper on recent work. I don't know the service history yet, so I will ask that his shop look into that. We can do a cost vs clutch condition look see before delivery next month. My guarantee is that the bike needs nothing, all service recent and paper on it.

    I don't feel that's out of line, he gets a custom built 48 volt electric powered 17 ft. cabin cruiser, trailer etc., as a straight across trade. My boat was figured at over 10 thou. to build it. Been in boat shows, great boat, but the new one is done, don't need 4 boats.

  14. #14
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sechelt, British Columbia
    Posts
    2,622
    Quote Originally Posted by calsgone View Post
    Sounds like that better extended spline plate will also fit the r1100RS abs. ?? Not much difference in motors, but I'm far from a pro. I do wonder why BMW didn't just switch to a stacked wet clutch with an oil sump, been used for decades and they have room, oh well.

    Looking at a spline lube now at 35 k, unless the owner has paper on recent work. I don't know the service history yet, so I will ask that his shop look into that. We can do a cost vs clutch condition look see before delivery next month. My guarantee is that the bike needs nothing, all service recent and paper on it.

    I don't feel that's out of line, he gets a custom built 48 volt electric powered 17 ft. cabin cruiser, trailer etc., as a straight across trade. My boat was figured at over 10 thou. to build it. Been in boat shows, great boat, but the new one is done, don't need 4 boats.
    The spline projection issue does not apply to the 1100 5 speeds (completely different parts)

    It applies to all 1150's and the 1100S 6 speeds
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    Need your R11xx Hall sensor rewired? PM me.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    20

    That saved me a bunch of $$ and work !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    The spline projection issue does not apply to the 1100 5 speeds (completely different parts)

    It applies to all 1150's and the 1100S 6 speeds
    Thank You,Thank You !!! Yeah, I will need to check the gear box number on the 1997 -- 1100 RS bike I get, just to be sure. But if I got you right, the clutch spline problem doesn't exist on 1997 year five speeds, just later 6 gear models ?? Possibly more is not always better.

    Hummm !! I might think that the 5 speed boxes have longer shafts, or the 6 gear box (frame?) dimensions have grown or changed to fit the extra gear inside, that also makes sense. Not a good case for using the later gears, I like the wider range 5 gear boxes anyway. It almost looks like BMW bowed to the Asian bike invasion right around or before year 2000, and changed some (advertising motivated!) things best left alone.

    Many thanks to you and the group, great info. --- Cal

Similar Threads

  1. Output shaft on 02 R1150 RT
    By mohan0 in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-16-2012, 03:23 PM
  2. Output shaft noise
    By sgborgstrom in forum Flying Brick K-bikes
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-22-2011, 12:25 AM
  3. 1100/1150 transmissions
    By ghostridery2k in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-07-2011, 09:55 PM
  4. K100 output shaft HELP!
    By mb4lunch in forum Flying Brick K-bikes
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-02-2008, 02:05 PM
  5. Output shaft seal
    By mikea in forum Airheads
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-18-2005, 01:37 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •