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Machinations At Markel Insurance

akbeemer

SURVIVOR
I am starting my third year with Markel Insurance. Although I’ve not had occasion to file a claim, I have been pleased with their service and rates. Last year I insured four bikes, with full coverage for under $800. Imagine my displeasure when I got my renewal and the charge for the next year was $1200. The new rate does include a fifth bike, but all the bikes went up in cost and the new bike accounted for only about 50% of the hike. I noticed a letter at the bottom of the electronic copy of my new policy. It essentially said I was now considered a high-risk client and that this decision was made based on a report they got from a company called Lexus-Nexus. Specifically the element of the report that primarily influenced my rating was,” % OF ACCOUNTS REPORTED IN LAST 24 MONTHS TO TOTAL ACCOUNTS ON FILE.” I’m not really sure I know what that means, but they say they got it from a credit report.

Now to fully understand why I’m feeling ill-treated in this situation, one needs to know some facts about me. No moving violations in the last 25 years, no claims… ever, credit scores on all three agencies above 800 and an auto insurance rating over 900 on a scale that tops at 950. One would think I would get the rates assigned to low risk, preferred people, and in fact I do for the insurance on our other vehicles (that company, USAA, does not insure motorcycles directly).

So what to do? Only choice is to enter into the bureaucratic abyss of two large companies and, as it turns out, the Great State of Montana.

The simplified version after many phone calls:

Lexus-Nexus: They base their rating on a report provided by one of the rating agencies and if I want to see it I must send a letter. They go on to say that Markel chose what factors from the report Lexus-Nexus should weight. Nothing they can do for me… talk to Markel.

Markel: They must accept what Lexus-Nexus gives them and that that Lexus-Nexus uses a proprietary formula to establish a rating. Yes, Markel does tell Lexus-Nexus what elements of the report to weight. The State of Montana requires insurance companies to check the rating of their customers every third renewal and the insurance company must use the results of that check to assign rates based upon a state approved table. Markel cannot change the rating or rates without breaking the law. Nothing they can do for me… talk to Lexus-Nexus.

I spoke to a very polite guy at Markel who had an immensely long title. He lamented with me about the unfairness of my situation, assured me that I’m not the first with this sort of complaint, informed me that my complaint would be considered the next time their contract with Lexus-Nexus comes up for renewal, and advised me to talk to Lexus-Nexus.

My final comment to the Markel rep was that I was not going to continue to be bounced back and forth between the two companies and that if he valued me (and the others with similar complaints) as customers he would work with Lexus-Nexus to ensure well qualified customers are not being ill treated. I got the distinct impression that my value to Markel has its limits.

So what’s next? I will be looking for a local agent that can provide me insurance at a reasonable rate and most importantly, face-to-face customer service. When we lived in AK I used Allstate. Their rates were higher, but I had an agent that would let me change the status of bikes to storage or full coverage by making a simple phone call. When all was said and done with the savings of paying just storage rates much of the time, Allstate was very competitive. In the meantime I’m stuck with Markel, but in fact even though I’m classified right alongside a three-time loser on grand theft auto charges, $100 per month for full coverage ($1000 deductible) on five bikes is not horrible. But it’s the damn principle of the thing. I worked hard to establish a good reputation and now I feel as if I'm being treated like a drunken test pilot.
 
I am starting my third year with Markel Insurance. Although I’ve not had occasion to file a claim, I have been pleased with their service and rates. Last year I insured four bikes, with full coverage for under $800. Imagine my displeasure when I got my renewal and the charge for the next year was $1200. The new rate does include a fifth bike, but all the bikes went up in cost and the new bike accounted for only about 50% of the hike. I noticed a letter at the bottom of the electronic copy of my new policy. It essentially said I was now considered a high-risk client and that this decision was made based on a report they got from a company called Lexus-Nexus. Specifically the element of the report that primarily influenced my rating was,” % OF ACCOUNTS REPORTED IN LAST 24 MONTHS TO TOTAL ACCOUNTS ON FILE.” I’m not really sure I know what that means, but they say they got it from a credit report.

Now to fully understand why I’m feeling ill-treated in this situation, one needs to know some facts about me. No moving violations in the last 25 years, no claims… ever, credit scores on all three agencies above 800 and an auto insurance rating over 900 on a scale that tops at 950. One would think I would get the rates assigned to low risk, preferred people, and in fact I do for the insurance on our other vehicles (that company, USAA, does not insure motorcycles directly).

So what to do? Only choice is to enter into the bureaucratic abyss of two large companies and, as it turns out, the Great State of Montana.

The simplified version after many phone calls:

Lexus-Nexus: They base their rating on a report provided by one of the rating agencies and if I want to see it I must send a letter. They go on to say that Markel chose what factors from the report Lexus-Nexus should weight. Nothing they can do for me… talk to Markel.

Markel: They must accept what Lexus-Nexus gives them and that that Lexus-Nexus uses a proprietary formula to establish a rating. Yes, Markel does tell Lexus-Nexus what elements of the report to weight. The State of Montana requires insurance companies to check the rating of their customers every third renewal and the insurance company must use the results of that check to assign rates based upon a state approved table. Markel cannot change the rating or rates without breaking the law. Nothing they can do for me… talk to Lexus-Nexus.

I spoke to a very polite guy at Markel who had an immensely long title. He lamented with me about the unfairness of my situation, assured me that I’m not the first with this sort of complaint, informed me that my complaint would be considered the next time their contract with Lexus-Nexus comes up for renewal, and advised me to talk to Lexus-Nexus.

My final comment to the Markel rep was that I was not going to continue to be bounced back and forth between the two companies and that if he valued me (and the others with similar complaints) as customers he would work with Lexus-Nexus to ensure well qualified customers are not being ill treated. I got the distinct impression that my value to Markel has its limits.

So what’s next? I will be looking for a local agent that can provide me insurance at a reasonable rate and most importantly, face-to-face customer service. When we lived in AK I used Allstate. Their rates were higher, but I had an agent that would let me change the status of bikes to storage or full coverage by making a simple phone call. When all was said and done with the savings of paying just storage rates much of the time, Allstate was very competitive. In the meantime I’m stuck with Markel, but in fact even though I’m classified right alongside a three-time loser on grand theft auto charges, $100 per month for full coverage ($1000 deductible) on five bikes is not horrible. But it’s the damn principle of the thing. I worked hard to establish a good reputation and now I feel as if I'm being treated like a drunken test pilot.

Check out State Farm, Progressive, Farmers/Foremost. Nobody except somebody just like you in the same loacale as you can actually say who is less or more expensive or "best".

When we moved from Kansas to Texas a K75 that cost $98 a year for 100/300/100 plus UI was going to cost $498 to transfer the policy from a Kansas location to a Texas location. The explanation: State Farm doesn't want motorcycle policies with uninsured/underinsured coverage in Texas. Too many uninsured vehicles running around. Now we have the house, three car/truck thingies and 8 motorcycles with Farmers/Foremost.
 
Not sure this is in the proper area of the forum...Opportunities for Members and Vendors. Will think about this and see if it belongs somewhere else.
 
"Posts about events, products and services of interest because they have to do with BMW, motorcycles or BMW MOA members."

Seems right to me.
 
I'm a very satisfied Progressive customer.

Sorry to hear about what happened to you.
 
That sucks, Kevin.

I was a happy USAA customer for decades. Then I inherited a house from my father, who had USAA homeowners insurance. I did some comparison shopping. I was taken aback to find that I was paying USAA about 50% more for the same coverage compared to what would be charged by State Farm. My interactions with USAA had always been first rate - my wife used to work for them - but that was too much. I moved the house policy.

Three or four years later, I made the same inquiry regarding our vehicles...with the same result. When I placed the policy elsewhere and sent in my cancellation, I received a very pleasant phone call from a USAA "retention specialist," who did everything she could to make me stay. I should really say "everything she could except lower the price." I felt a bit abused that USAA only seemed to have paid attention to my bottom line when their income stream was threatened. I have had two claims since the policy was changed, and the current carrier has treated me very well.

I'm still a happy USAA customer, but only for investments.
 
"Posts about events, products and services of interest because they have to do with BMW, motorcycles or BMW MOA members."

Seems right to me.

Kevin -

I think the intention is about events/products/services that members/vendors offer to each other. If you were a member offering this service, that would work. If a vendor such as Michelin (or other advertiser in the ON) were to post about a special offer to members, that would be fine.

That's my way of thinking on this...
 
USAA has insured our cars for over 40 years and been our bank for just as long. We insured 3 of our 4 homes with them and they were the best rates we could find. In Alaska USAA was outrageous for homeowners so we went with Allstate. When we first came to MT we looked into consolidating all our insurance (home, auto, m/c). Went to State Farm and we were told we were ineligiable for State Farm insurance of any kind for three years. We had a TV stolen in the move to MT and had filed a claim on our homeowners policy. To State Farm that was reason enough to ban us. Needless to say, I'm not in a hurry to give SF any of my business. Paul is right. Every place is different. A variety of factors figure into how rates are set in each locale, and a good agent can help.
 
Kevin -

I think the intention is about events/products/services that members/vendors offer to each other. If you were a member offering this service, that would work. If a vendor such as Michelin (or other advertiser in the ON) were to post about a special offer to members, that would be fine.

That's my way of thinking on this...

Put it wherever you deem appropriate.
 
I just switched from Progressive to State Farm. I think it's the formula for these companies to give you a low rate the first year and then jacking up the price each year.

I saved $150 and upped some of my coverages. In addition I have a local guy I can talk to. Agent claimed the "low ball" was not State Farm's mode of operation.
 
I just switched from Progressive to State Farm. I think it's the formula for these companies to give you a low rate the first year and then jacking up the price each year.

I saved $150 and upped some of my coverages. In addition I have a local guy I can talk to. Agent claimed the "low ball" was not State Farm's mode of operation.

I found out (the hard way) that what you get from insurance companies for loyalty is a higher rate. I am a former (30 years) State Farm Customer.
I am in the fifth year with my current company and yep, big increase last time. I will be shopping and probably moving on next time.
 
I currently have USAA for my homeowners, cars and bikes. Michigan is a NO Fault state, and not all insurers will touch the bike insurance business. (Dairyland for one) In Michigan, I have found USAA to be the most affordable, we get lots of insurance offers, and once we mention USAA, the conversation gets real short.

I believe they use Progressive as their bike carrier.

Never hurts to check around to keep your current insurer honest.
 
Everyone has an insurance story, so we can all suggest trying company x, or company y, but each person's circumstances are unique. That said, here's my insurance story. Moved to the U.S. in 2013. Initially went with State Farm and a local agent for all our insurance needs. After one year, State Farm proposed significantly increasing our rates. Local agent could not explain why. Upshot was that I switched all insurance to GEICO. Their rates were 55% less than State Farm wanted to charge. As for a local agent, I actually think that these "online" companies provide better service, in that someone is always there to answer the phone, and their web tools etc. are much better (in my experience at least). I had reached the same conclusion in Canada before moving here as well.

No harm in getting an online quote from GEICO, or Progressive.
 
As Paul said, it depends on location and other nebulous rate determinations.

I was a loyal GEICO car insurance customer (formerly the two BMW cars plus the RT) for over 41 years up until about 18 months ago when I got a bill for over $3,000 for a 6 month premium on the X3 and X5. There have never been any claims other than occasional glass replacements, and no traffic citations ever. Calling around, the best rate was USAA which was literally 1/3 the cost of GEICO with slightly better coverages all around. The motorcycle coverage stayed and still beats the USAA rate about $300 per re-up. I have had State Farm for Homeowners coverage for years, but will look around at the USAA rate next time.
 
"Posts about events, products and services of interest because they have to do with BMW, motorcycles or BMW MOA members."

Seems right to me.

Yeah....I think it belongs in this thread heading as well.

Like others have echoed, check out Progressive. I've had them for years, handled a claim very efficiently on my R1200RT, and my deductible declines each year ("Disappearing Deductible Benefit").

As to your specific rating ambush, I'd be curious to know (and it's none of my business - I get that) if you closed out a number of credit card accounts over the past couple of years, i.e. cards you no longer use or acquired simply to get some complimentary item or service associated with signing up.

I have a brother-in-law in San Diego that's cheaper than Jack Benny. He signs up for any and every credit card offer that he bumps into, just for the freebee item or subscription or whatever. Then he cancels out the account at a later date. I warned him that Credit Score agencies have blinders on and view the loss of multiple credit card accounts as "an inability to pay," and degrade your credit score/risk assessment arbitrarily.

He didn't listen. His credit score is pitifully low, despite no mortgage, a six-figure income and gobs of cash in the bank.

Not fair that powers-that-be treat you or any one else this way. How they evaluate risk is too rigid, and when companies like Markel contract solely with an agency that does its actuarials this way, people get punished for no good reason. :banghead
 
Yeah....I think it belongs in this thread heading as well.

Like others have echoed, check out Progressive. I've had them for years, handled a claim very efficiently on my R1200RT, and my deductible declines each year ("Disappearing Deductible Benefit").

As to your specific rating ambush, I'd be curious to know (and it's none of my business - I get that) if you closed out a number of credit card accounts over the past couple of years, i.e. cards you no longer use or acquired simply to get some complimentary item or service associated with signing up.

I have a brother-in-law in San Diego that's cheaper than Jack Benny. He signs up for any and every credit card offer that he bumps into, just for the freebee item or subscription or whatever. Then he cancels out the account at a later date. I warned him that Credit Score agencies have blinders on and view the loss of multiple credit card accounts as "an inability to pay," and degrade your credit score/risk assessment arbitrarily.

He didn't listen. His credit score is pitifully low, despite no mortgage, a six-figure income and gobs of cash in the bank.

Not fair that powers-that-be treat you or any one else this way. How they evaluate risk is too rigid, and when companies like Markel contract solely with an agency that does its actuarials this way, people get punished for no good reason. :banghead

We've had two credit cards in 40 years. One we use very rarely and carry as a back-up. The other we use a great deal because it has a good mileage plan. Having spent 27 years in the Army we moved a great deal. We have owned homes in 4 states and have opened and closed bank accounts in several locations. It was always helpful to have a local bank even though we have banked at the same place since 1973 for most functions. Some of those old bank accounts and mortgages still show-up on our reports, even some that were closed more than 15 years ago. If you dig deep into a report it will show that the accounts are closed. I never worried because it obviously is not hurting our credit rating. In this case a firm chose to extract one irrelevant piece of info and give it enough weight so that it caused us harm.
 
We've had two credit cards in 40 years. One we use very rarely and carry as a back-up. The other we use a great deal because it has a good mileage plan. Having spent 27 years in the Army we moved a great deal. We have owned homes in 4 states and have opened and closed bank accounts in several locations. It was always helpful to have a local bank even though we have banked at the same place since 1973 for most functions. Some of those old bank accounts and mortgages still show-up on our reports, even some that were closed more than 15 years ago. If you dig deep into a report it will show that the accounts are closed. I never worried because it obviously is not hurting our credit rating. In this case a firm chose to extract one irrelevant piece of info and give it enough weight so that it caused us harm.

Sucks.

Again, consider switching to Progressive. That being said, I have no idea who Progressive subcontracts with for credit checks?

Just say'in. :scratch
 
GEICO told me they do not use credit reports to set their rates. In spite of that, I switched to Foremost for the lower rate.
 
Kevin, (and anyone else that's interested)
A couple of years ago Rhonda and I got online and did the, "get a quote from Markel" comparison. She pulled out our USAA progressive insurance policy and checked line by line, feature for feature. For the exact same coverage, Progressive through USAA, was significantly cheaper, but Markel did send me the cool R1200RT radio compartment portfolio bag to organize all my paperwork (which is awesome by the way).

A few years later I had to make a significant claim with USAA/Progressive when the front end of my bike got run over with me still on it. My insurance rep took real good care of me and my bike. I wrote about the incident in ON MOTOSAFE MEETS DEALER PROFILE I believe it was published in the Septermber '13 issue. I talk about my interaction with the insurance company in the article.

Kevin, I would get a quote from USAA/Progressive and if it's cheaper, switch carrier, and have Markel send you that fat prorated balance check.
 
Thanks for the perspective rangerreece. As a 30 year military guy I've had USAA for many years & have been extremely happy with their service, but am new to the USAA/Progressive MC insurance "club" as I've just starting riding again after years away. Glad to hear your experience was positive....unlike the incident which made it necessary. Hope I never need similar service but good to know of yours.
 
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