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Disappointed and Discouraged in BMW

daboo said:
I agree with you Gail...but only sort of. I do like my F800GT. It's a sweet bike, and I believe it'll last for quite awhile. But I just don't have that confidence in the larger, more expensive "sophisticated" models. Especially any newer BMW with a shaft drive.

Bruce (the OP) bought his BMW thnking it would work...and then had two major failures in less than a month. And on a bike with less than 50,000 miles. That's bad.

I was just reading on Motorcycle.com about motorcycle reliability. At the bottom of the list was Can-Am. Just above the Can-Am, was BMW. It'd be easy to disregard what the study's results were, but the sample size was huge (over 11,000 responders). If all responders had the same questions...then it seems like the results must have some semblance of accuracy. It would be easy to say that only a very very small percentage of BMWs have a major failure, and that this owner was an anomaly, but that study indicates that many more BMW owners have major problems. And unlike the Can-Am...there's no mention of how the cost to 45% of the owners was $0.

From Motorcycle.com:


Like the Motorcycle.com article says, BMW has excellent technology. But the reliability isn't anywhere's near what other manufacturers are able to produce. And this on bikes that are supposed to be capable of riding around the world.

Lastly, if "anything with a motor can be problematic", then why is it the BMW was at 40% for major repairs and the top four on the list were at around 10%?
Click to expand...
I understand your point, and I might feel differently if all the BMW's I've owned had a major problem, but the OP had one used bike! As Steve said, you never know how the previous owner treated the bike. I will not argue that BMW's have their share of issues, but I still want to own one :).
 
^^^^^^^^

If based on Consumer Reports, this is old news based on anecdotal and not a scientific fact-based statistical analysis. Lots of threads on the CR report on various mc forums already. Doesn't help the OP any but i would not get real excited about their owners survey as it fails to define or quantify specific failures or failure rates.
 
Reliability Rankings

The most recent reliability rankings from Consumer Reports that I have read for cars and for motorcycles rank on the basis of the number of "complaints" owners have within the first "X" period of time of ownership - one year I think. Especially among the cars but also among the motorcycles the most technologically advanced vehicles generally rated the worst.

There are three reasons for that:

1. Actual significant defects
2. Amount of opportunity
3. Owner expectations

1. Actually determining how vehicles ranked on item #1 was difficult to impossible from published reports because complaints simply were not broken down that way. The article cited raw counts and some anecdotes.

2. As for number 2, what I will call gizmos accounted for many if not most of the complaints. "My built in guidance system routed me wrong" or my "Bluetooth was hard to pair" and several equally compelling defects were in fact quoted in the articles I read. This stuff is not as aggravating as Windows 10, but some of it almost is.

3. And finally, when a person buys a brand spanking new Lexus, or a BMW motorcycle there is the mindset that a person paid a premium price for a premium product and thus some of these owners are more inclined to have a "complaint" about something - see #2 above.
 
daboo said:
But I just don't have that confidence in the larger, more expensive "sophisticated" models. Especially any newer BMW with a shaft drive.
Click to expand...

Chris, that's nonsense. Drive line failures in 2013 on up boxers have been exceedingly limited, and miles are adding up now in 2018. You'll be replacing your belt at least 4x before people with 'new BMW's w/ shaft drive' have any degree of problem incidence. You're living in the past on this, fortunately for owners of newer BMW w/ shaft drive.
 
Last edited:
I think BMWs beginning around 2000 about the time the automobile guys made a grab for control of the motorcycle arm of the company quality began to tilt downward and this trend continued until 2010. From 2010 until the present it appears BMW is back on track and that's a very good thing. I have read that BMW even considered at one point ceasing motorcycle production entirely. If you follow the wethead forum you will not see many threads describing expensive drive train failures like you see in the oilhead forum. Not even close.
 
jammess said:
I think BMWs beginning around 2000 about the time the automobile guys made a grab for control of the motorcycle arm of the company quality began to tilt downward and this trend continued until 2010. From 2010 until the present it appears BMW is back on track and that's a very good thing. I have read that BMW even considered at one point ceasing motorcycle production entirely. If you follow the wethead forum you will not see many threads describing expensive drive train failures like you see in the oilhead forum. Not even close.
Click to expand...
"not see many". That's encouraging.
 
dduelin said:
"not see many". That's encouraging.
Click to expand...

You'd be hearing by now if drive train issues were happening with any frequency as people generally like to share their horror stories on forums. 78,000 wet heads were sold worldwide in 2016 alone so there are quite a few out there now starting in 2013.
 
You might be correct. :) I had a commander in the USAF tell me something once that stuck with me. He said, "Perceptions are reality." I hope you're right. :)

Chris
 
dduelin said:
"not see many". That's encouraging.
Click to expand...

Actually that was a poor choice of words. I have never read any threads on this or any other wethead forum about drive train failures. IMO, I don't think anyone builds a motorcycle better than BMW does today. That said I still like my FJR but it isn't quite in the same league as a BMW built after 2010. The way it is.

I got to add that I like my '93 R1100RSL even though it is an early oilhead and maybe prone to final drive failure but that's OK and I'll just get it fixed and continue to own it with a smile on my face every time I ride it.
 
daboo said:
I agree with you Gail...but only sort of. I do like my F800GT. It's a sweet bike, and I believe it'll last for quite awhile. But I just don't have that confidence in the larger, more expensive "sophisticated" models. Especially any newer BMW with a shaft drive.

Bruce (the OP) bought his BMW thnking it would work...and then had two major failures in less than a month. And on a bike with less than 50,000 miles. That's bad.

I was just reading on Motorcycle.com about motorcycle reliability. At the bottom of the list was Can-Am. Just above the Can-Am, was BMW. It'd be easy to disregard what the study's results were, but the sample size was huge (over 11,000 responders). If all responders had the same questions...then it seems like the results must have some semblance of accuracy. It would be easy to say that only a very very small percentage of BMWs have a major failure, and that this owner was an anomaly, but that study indicates that many more BMW owners have major problems. And unlike the Can-Am...there's no mention of how the cost to 45% of the owners was $0.

From Motorcycle.com:


Like the Motorcycle.com article says, BMW has excellent technology. But the reliability isn't anywhere's near what other manufacturers are able to produce. And this on bikes that are supposed to be capable of riding around the world.

Lastly, if "anything with a motor can be problematic", then why is it the BMW was at 40% for major repairs and the top four on the list were at around 10%?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your PM response.

I shot another one back at you!

Enjoy your F800GT - really nice bike on several levels. :thumb
 
jammess said:
I got to add that I like my '93 R1100RSL even though it is an early oilhead and maybe prone to final drive failure but that's OK and I'll just get it fixed and continue to own it with a smile on my face every time I ride it.
Click to expand...

Worry later. Voni's R1100RS built in March, '93 is parked out front right now with over 410,000 miles on the original, never repaired, final drive.
 
PGlaves said:
Worry later. Voni's R1100RS built in March, '93 is parked out front right now with over 410,000 miles on the original, never repaired, final drive.
Click to expand...

Now that's encouraging! Out of curiosity, how long did Voni's original M93 transmission last? My RSL was manufactured in June of '93. Hers must be one of the very first built.
 
jammess said:
Now that's encouraging! Out of curiosity, how long did Voni's original M93 transmission last? My RSL was manufactured in June of '93. Hers must be one of the very first built.
Click to expand...

The original was replaced under warranty at 55,480 miles. The replacement was rebuilt by Tom Cutter when the bike had 349353 miles.
 
PGlaves said:
I'm sure they would deny the warranty claim because I have run a moly additive in the gear oil since the bike was new. :) :)
Click to expand...

I began running Motul moly gear lube in my RS and right away noticed how quiet the M93 became while idling in neutral. Just a tremendous improvement. Also use it in final drive. One quart does the trans and FD so not bad. Buy it on Amazon.
 
I am a long-term user of Dow GearGuard M since Oak Okleshen (the pre-eminent "large G" Airhead Guru) recommended it decades ago.

Some of the current "gurus" don't recommend it.

Youngsters. The lot of them.

Harumff!
 
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