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Thread: Disappointed and Discouraged in BMW

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88bmwjeff View Post
    With regards to the engine, it sounds like the exhaust valve disintegrated. And that's typically not to be expected on a low mileage bike even at nine years. Many manufacturers do come up to the plate with at least partial reimbursement outside of the warranty if it is determined to be a manufacturing defect. I've had vehicles fail under warranty and I've had to agree to the cost of the tear down if the cause is determined not be manufacturer defect. BMW did offer to possibly pay if the exact cause was determined. You chose not to tear down the motor to find out the cause. BMW was saying in some circumstances they would pay some portion of the bill, depending on what the cause was. I don't think it would have taken that long to pull the head and cylinder on the damaged side to figure out the cause. If you wanted BMW to pick up part of the cost, you should have paid to determine the exact cause of the failure, in my opinion. Why should any company pay for a repair when the cause is unknown?
    I didn't put in all the details. The BMW rep said they would kick in $400-500 if, after tearing the engine down, it was found to be a manufacturing defect. The service manager said it would cost me around $700 for them to do it. So I would have lost $200-300, if BMW decided to pay off, which was not guaranteed. What would you do under those circumstances?
    Bruce N8UTY
    2006 R1200RT

  2. #152
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    If I wanted to keep the bike I would pay for the teardown if I wanted BMW to even think about helping. It has to be torn down for repair either way and that shop time is not free.

    If I wanted to keep the bike and not looking for fault, I would tear it down myself and be riding or letting it go.

    Most of us realize it sucks to have a fairly low in BMW averages mileage bike let go, but after warranty is over it's a tougher stance to take to expect any help. If BMW finds a failed part, good for you as any help is better than none.
    You just never know how those previous 40K were operated. Even with service records, no knowledge of a overheat/sit in traffic occurrence a few times or the driving styles of previous owners.

    We have many second owner bikes with a lot more mileage, only Helen's '02 lost a chunk of valve at 104K...I am waiting on the heads to come back on that one. My 09 Hexhead did break a valve early in it's life under original warranty and I still had some cost on my part to get it back. Didn't keep me from getting another one.

    Threads like this seem to derail often, especially in Winter.

    Sorry for your woes, it is part of owning anything with a motor in it.
    Steve Henson-Mod Team and club tire changer

    Be decisive, right or wrong.The road of life is paved with
    flat squirrels who couldn't make a decision~unknown

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucen8uty View Post
    What would you do under those circumstances?
    I'd fix it. Its not worth much in non-running condition.

  4. #154
    Registered User 88bmwjeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucen8uty View Post
    I didn't put in all the details. The BMW rep said they would kick in $400-500 if, after tearing the engine down, it was found to be a manufacturing defect. The service manager said it would cost me around $700 for them to do it. So I would have lost $200-300, if BMW decided to pay off, which was not guaranteed. What would you do under those circumstances?
    I would not teardown the whole engine, but rather I'd have them pull the head, piston and cylinder on the damaged side. I'm not familiar with the Oilheads, so I can't really comment. But removing the head on an airhead is about 15-20 min-max and I can't imagine an expert mechanic should be able to take the head of in less than an hour if not a half an hour. The comment I always hear is how quick and easy it is to remove the head and/or cylinder on these boxers. With the head and cylinder off, they should have been able to give you enough information if additional teardown was warranted. I don't know what the hourly rate is where you live, but for me it would be about $100 gamble, and that would have been worth it to me.
    Jeff in W.C.
    1988 R100 RT (the other woman)
    "I got my motorcycle jacket but I'm walking all the time." Joe Strummer

  5. #155
    Registered User 88bmwjeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    I'd fix it. Its not worth much in non-running condition.
    He did fix the bike. He chose to replace the engine with a good use engine, if I remember correctly.
    Jeff in W.C.
    1988 R100 RT (the other woman)
    "I got my motorcycle jacket but I'm walking all the time." Joe Strummer

  6. #156

    Another BNW rider in eastern NC : An opinion

    "Maybe someday I'll get over it. Truly, I still want to believe in BMW as I always have, and to accept that I just had bad luck with one of their bikes. At this moment, it's hard to believe I will ever buy another. I could have bought a brand-new Kawasaki Versys 1000LT for what I've got in this 2006 R1200RT. BMW ought to be thinking about that."

    Hello--I am also in eastern NC, New Bern to be exact. I recently bought a used 2008 R1200RT from Lejeune Motorsport in Jacksonville. It had 18K miles and now almost 20K. Garcia Moto in Raleigh did a 18K service (for $800) and all is fine so far. Your story is a sad one and I commiserate with you. Others have found fault with your complaint but I think you are in the right. To want to get something off your chest is laudable. BMW should have been a little more helpful. Such is life.

    I don't know where you live but if you are near New Bern, I'd be happy to ride with you sometime, if you are looking for company on the road. I am retired and planning a cross country ride in the Spring.

    In any event I hope you solve your problem quickly with the BMW. I have thought of buying a new one as some recommend to avoid breakdowns, but the huge price tag ($23,000) keeps me from doing it. I paid $6500 for my 2008 BMW and as long as it keeps going without too much expense, I'll ride it for a good while. My other bike is a 2011 Triumph Speedmaster 850cc. So far no problems.

    Regards,
    Jerry Scott
    jerrywscott@aol.com

  7. #157
    Registered User crucian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markaz View Post
    I had a 62 Renault Dauphine in high school. Beat that...
    I'll take that challenge. Mine was a Renault Caravelle, complete with orange racing stripe to go with the 18hp lawn mower engine.

  8. #158
    [QUOTE=jerrytango;1116001]"Maybe someday I'll get over it. Truly, I still want to believe in BMW as I always have, and to accept that I just had bad luck with one of their bikes. At this moment, it's hard to believe I will ever buy another. I could have bought a brand-new Kawasaki Versys 1000LT for what I've got in this 2006 R1200RT. BMW ought to be thinking about that."

    What you are saying is true to a certain extent, but like someone else said, anything with a motor can be problematic. There certainly are "other" brands way more affordable, and I agree that BMW sometimes has their head in the sand. Owning and riding a BMW motorcycle is like nothing else in the motorcycling world. You will not find a better "family". I am BMW loyal and I wouldn't trade what I have found with this brand for anything else.
    Gail Thorne
    2017 F700GS

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by crucian View Post
    I'll take that challenge. Mine was a Renault Caravelle, complete with orange racing stripe to go with the 18hp lawn mower engine.
    My parents had a Dauphine. Dad was the parts manager at an Oldsmobile dealer that also sold Renault. I think that Dauphine was a 1964. At the end of the year, the general manager called my Dad and said "you just bought a new Dauphine". They needed to sell one more car to meet a target, and get significant kickbacks. So Dad bought a Dauphine for a ridiculous price - it was either $400 or $600. The Dauphine was Mom's car, since Dad got furnished with a demo. I believe it replaced a 1949 Chevy. I remember the cool thing about the Chevy was sitting in the back seat watching the road go past through all the holes in the rusted out floor. The Dauphine got replaced by a new 1968 R10, which is what I learned to drive on.

    The Caravelles were cool. I never sat in one, let alone drove one.

    Sorry to further hijack a BMW thread. I haven't thought about those Renaults for years.
    Howard Edwards

    2014 Road King; 1975 R75/6

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortythorne View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by brucen8uty View Post
    "Maybe someday I'll get over it. Truly, I still want to believe in BMW as I always have, and to accept that I just had bad luck with one of their bikes. At this moment, it's hard to believe I will ever buy another. I could have bought a brand-new Kawasaki Versys 1000LT for what I've got in this 2006 R1200RT. BMW ought to be thinking about that."
    What you are saying is true to a certain extent, but like someone else said, anything with a motor can be problematic. There certainly are "other" brands way more affordable, and I agree that BMW sometimes has their head in the sand. Owning and riding a BMW motorcycle is like nothing else in the motorcycling world. You will not find a better "family". I am BMW loyal and I wouldn't trade what I have found with this brand for anything else.
    I agree with you Gail...but only sort of. I do like my F800GT. It's a sweet bike, and I believe it'll last for quite awhile. But I just don't have that confidence in the larger, more expensive "sophisticated" models. Especially any newer BMW with a shaft drive.

    Bruce (the OP) bought his BMW thnking it would work...and then had two major failures in less than a month. And on a bike with less than 50,000 miles. That's bad.

    I was just reading on Motorcycle.com about motorcycle reliability. At the bottom of the list was Can-Am. Just above the Can-Am, was BMW. It'd be easy to disregard what the study's results were, but the sample size was huge (over 11,000 responders). If all responders had the same questions...then it seems like the results must have some semblance of accuracy. It would be easy to say that only a very very small percentage of BMWs have a major failure, and that this owner was an anomaly, but that study indicates that many more BMW owners have major problems. And unlike the Can-Am...there's no mention of how the cost to 45% of the owners was $0.

    From Motorcycle.com:
    BMW coming in as the second-least reliable marque on the list may be a bit of a surprise to some. German engineering is known to be some of the best in the world, but nonetheless, CR says 40% of Beemers will see the repairman for something fairly serious within the first four years. Among all the bikes sampled in the survey (not just BMW), the highest single area of malfunctions or repairs centered around the electrical systems of the motorcycle, with 24% of repairs occurring here. This is likely a trend that will continue, as more and more electronic rider aids become the norm in today’s motorcycles.
    Like the Motorcycle.com article says, BMW has excellent technology. But the reliability isn't anywhere's near what other manufacturers are able to produce. And this on bikes that are supposed to be capable of riding around the world.

    Lastly, if "anything with a motor can be problematic", then why is it the BMW was at 40% for major repairs and the top four on the list were at around 10%?
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
    John 14:6

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by daboo View Post
    I agree with you Gail...but only sort of. I do like my F800GT. It's a sweet bike, and I believe it'll last for quite awhile. But I just don't have that confidence in the larger, more expensive "sophisticated" models. Especially any newer BMW with a shaft drive.

    Bruce (the OP) bought his BMW thnking it would work...and then had two major failures in less than a month. And on a bike with less than 50,000 miles. That's bad.

    I was just reading on Motorcycle.com about motorcycle reliability. At the bottom of the list was Can-Am. Just above the Can-Am, was BMW. It'd be easy to disregard what the study's results were, but the sample size was huge (over 11,000 responders). If all responders had the same questions...then it seems like the results must have some semblance of accuracy. It would be easy to say that only a very very small percentage of BMWs have a major failure, and that this owner was an anomaly, but that study indicates that many more BMW owners have major problems. And unlike the Can-Am...there's no mention of how the cost to 45% of the owners was $0.

    From Motorcycle.com:


    Like the Motorcycle.com article says, BMW has excellent technology. But the reliability isn't anywhere's near what other manufacturers are able to produce. And this on bikes that are supposed to be capable of riding around the world.

    Lastly, if "anything with a motor can be problematic", then why is it the BMW was at 40% for major repairs and the top four on the list were at around 10%?
    I understand your point, and I might feel differently if all the BMW's I've owned had a major problem, but the OP had one used bike! As Steve said, you never know how the previous owner treated the bike. I will not argue that BMW's have their share of issues, but I still want to own one .
    Gail Thorne
    2017 F700GS

  12. #162
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    ^^^^^^^^

    If based on Consumer Reports, this is old news based on anecdotal and not a scientific fact-based statistical analysis. Lots of threads on the CR report on various mc forums already. Doesn't help the OP any but i would not get real excited about their owners survey as it fails to define or quantify specific failures or failure rates.

  13. #163

    Reliability Rankings

    The most recent reliability rankings from Consumer Reports that I have read for cars and for motorcycles rank on the basis of the number of "complaints" owners have within the first "X" period of time of ownership - one year I think. Especially among the cars but also among the motorcycles the most technologically advanced vehicles generally rated the worst.

    There are three reasons for that:

    1. Actual significant defects
    2. Amount of opportunity
    3. Owner expectations

    1. Actually determining how vehicles ranked on item #1 was difficult to impossible from published reports because complaints simply were not broken down that way. The article cited raw counts and some anecdotes.

    2. As for number 2, what I will call gizmos accounted for many if not most of the complaints. "My built in guidance system routed me wrong" or my "Bluetooth was hard to pair" and several equally compelling defects were in fact quoted in the articles I read. This stuff is not as aggravating as Windows 10, but some of it almost is.

    3. And finally, when a person buys a brand spanking new Lexus, or a BMW motorcycle there is the mindset that a person paid a premium price for a premium product and thus some of these owners are more inclined to have a "complaint" about something - see #2 above.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1074 View Post
    Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and exuberance.
    That's a keeper. 😂

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by daboo View Post
    But I just don't have that confidence in the larger, more expensive "sophisticated" models. Especially any newer BMW with a shaft drive.
    Chris, that's nonsense. Drive line failures in 2013 on up boxers have been exceedingly limited, and miles are adding up now in 2018. You'll be replacing your belt at least 4x before people with 'new BMW's w/ shaft drive' have any degree of problem incidence. You're living in the past on this, fortunately for owners of newer BMW w/ shaft drive.
    Last edited by ncpbmw1953; 01-23-2018 at 01:58 AM.

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