View Poll Results: When I click the Flea Market link in the banner at the top of this page this happens:

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  • It always loads fine and I don't think it is a problem

    12 32.43%
  • It sometimes loads fine and sometimes hangs and I don't think it is a problem

    3 8.11%
  • It hangs a lot without loading and I think it needs to be fixed

    22 59.46%
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Thread: Flea Market Poll

  1. #31
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikegalbicka View Post
    I think this is all very confusing for the average user and that helps lead to their frustration. I do not understand myself why clicking the "Flea Market" link in the banner of the MOA homepage does not take you to the flea market but instead takes you to a page that discusses the flea market and then has a link to click that takes you to the flea market finally.
    I read that process is the reason why members don't see the "retired" flea market- and like it as it explains the goings on.
    One of the problems is most likely, that a user is interested in "getting to the flea market". If, after clicking on the flea market from the home page, they took the time to scroll down through the information posted, they could read a tutorial on how the flea market now works, and what to expect.

    I like to remind computer users that the computer does not know what you want to do with it- it needs to be instructed.
    OM
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  2. #32
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    I read that process is the reason why members don't see the "retired" flea market- and like it as it explains the goings on.
    One of the problems is most likely, that a user is interested in "getting to the flea market". If, after clicking on the flea market from the home page, they took the time to scroll down through the information posted, they could read a tutorial on how the flea market now works, and what to expect.

    I like to remind computer users that the computer does not know what you want to do with it- it needs to be instructed.
    OM
    But that's the problem--an informational website like this one should never require a tutorial for use. It should be as intuitive and responsive as an old rotary dial or push-button phone, still the gold standards of design for intuitive use. The subsection of this thread that addresses *getting to* the Flea Market could be resolved swiftly and completely if the link on the home page did what it purports to do; take one to the flea market. Once there, a "Where's the old Flea Market?" link could address the need for and nature of the change, and from that info there'd best be a link right back to Panjo.

    People selling click-thru advertising will tell you that you have 60 seconds to get a page loaded and land the user in the general area of what they came for. Any longer than that and users bail, and that's especially true with the tech-savvy thirty-somethings that BMW and MOA are trying to attract. Simple. Direct. Fast.

    Best,
    Last edited by GTRider; 01-31-2015 at 10:57 PM.
    DGerber
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  3. #33
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider View Post
    But that's the problem--an informational website like this one should never require a tutorial for use. It should be as intuitive and responsive as an old rotary dial or push-button phone, still the gold standards of design for intuitive use. The subsection of this thread that addresses *getting to* the Flea Market could be resolved swiftly and completely if the link on the home page did what it purports to do; take one to the flea market. Once there, a "Where's the old Flea Market?" link could address the need for and nature of the change, and from that info there'd best be a link right back to Panjo.
    I know what you are saying, and from my perspective your concept only applies in a perfect environment. In this part of the forum, there are 9 how-to stickies on everything from creating/adding an avatar to posting a picture. They are in essence a tutorial and I believe are necessary.

    People selling click-thru advertising will tell you that you have 60 seconds to get a page loaded and land the user in the general area of what they came for. Any longer than that and users bail, and that's especially true with the tech-savvy thirty-somethings that BMW and MOA are trying to attract. Simple. Direct. Fast.
    I think that if everyone was a pro at this, there wouldn't be any questions. I don't think we are selling advertising- click through or otherwise. My impression is a place for members to showcase surplus gear they would like to sell.
    One more example... Go to the home page and follow the links for Picture This. Then please show me where, on those pages, the hapless member is informed as to how he could submit a photo for either the magazine or the blog.


    Best,
    If you are signed in and go to that "Picture This" area, you might find this-

    Visit the PICTURE THIS! page to see the topic for upcoming issues and how to submit your work of art to the magazine. Visit the Picture This! MEMBER SUBMISSION PAGE and submit your photos of the current topic. Send us something really great and we'll place it in the homepage slideshow above.
    I'm one of the "hapless members" and it's lookin' good to me.
    If you need help just ask, there are a lot of new things and while I don't know all of them- I'm happy to help figure out the answers.
    Gary

    pardon the blue but I didn't want to take the time to import a screen-shot
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  4. #34
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    I think that if everyone was a pro at this, there wouldn't be any questions. I don't think we are selling advertising- click through or otherwise. My impression is a place for members to showcase surplus gear they would like to sell.
    No, not selling click-throughs in Panjo but buyers and sellers alike still have a limit to how much jockeying they are willing to do or how much they are willing to dig or wait for an item or page --there are a lot of other options for both groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    If you are signed in and go to that "Picture This" area, you might find this-

    Visit the PICTURE THIS! page to see the topic for upcoming issues and how to submit your work of art to the magazine. Visit the Picture This! MEMBER SUBMISSION PAGE and submit your photos of the current topic. Send us something really great and we'll place it in the homepage slideshow above.
    Aye, there's the rub--authentication doesn't always seem to pass between the forum, Panjo, and the main page. Hit the Forum/Panjo first and be authenticated, then jump to the home page and follow the link from there to Picture This and you may or may not get to see the submission section at the bottom. It seems to be much more undependable in the mobile version of the page than the desktop version--I didn't realize that until I parked the tablet and flipped on my laptop.

    Bottom line, navigation is still a bit of a puzzle on what has the feel of a mashup composed of three separate sites. Posting an item for sale in Panjo is still a frustrating exercise for those who just want to list an item with a price/description, include contact info for Q's on product or shipping costs, and arrange payment directly between buyer and seller without passing Paypal info through Panjo or jumping through the shipping hoops that Panjo insists upon before accepting an ad.

    IMHO, members have been pretty patient in waiting for the finished version of the new web presence and marketplace. If the web changeover has been done by a contractor then it's high time to hold the contractor's feet to the fire. If it's being done by volunteer labor then I'd say Thank You to the volunteers for their service, but point out that an organization with 35-40k members that's running an e-commerce site needs to see that given the importance of that site to the organization, it's time to farm the job out to a pro and stop trying to beat him at his own game. IMHO, of course.

    Thank You for your service as a moderator!

    Best,

    GTRider
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST 1984 R80 G/S-PD 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C 2010 K1300GT 2018 R1200GS
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  5. #35
    Back in the saddle again mikegalbicka's Avatar
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    GTrider, thanks for taking the time to express all those important points. At some point I am hoping someone will listen and act instead of offer an explanation why everything is fine and you just need to learn how to use it the way it is designed. If they really want to reach a younger demographic this will have to change.

  6. #36
    Back in the saddle again mikegalbicka's Avatar
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    Not sure if anything has changed on the back end since we don't get much feedback but the flea market has been loading fine for me for about 5 days now. Hope this trend continues.

  7. #37
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider View Post
    No, not selling click-throughs in Panjo but buyers and sellers alike still have a limit to how much jockeying they are willing to do or how much they are willing to dig or wait for an item or page --there are a lot of other options for both groups.



    Aye, there's the rub--authentication doesn't always seem to pass between the forum, Panjo, and the main page. Hit the Forum/Panjo first and be authenticated, then jump to the home page and follow the link from there to Picture This and you may or may not get to see the submission section at the bottom. It seems to be much more undependable in the mobile version of the page than the desktop version--I didn't realize that until I parked the tablet and flipped on my laptop.

    Bottom line, navigation is still a bit of a puzzle on what has the feel of a mashup composed of three separate sites. Posting an item for sale in Panjo is still a frustrating exercise for those who just want to list an item with a price/description, include contact info for Q's on product or shipping costs, and arrange payment directly between buyer and seller without passing Paypal info through Panjo or jumping through the shipping hoops that Panjo insists upon before accepting an ad.

    IMHO, members have been pretty patient in waiting for the finished version of the new web presence and marketplace. If the web changeover has been done by a contractor then it's high time to hold the contractor's feet to the fire. If it's being done by volunteer labor then I'd say Thank You to the volunteers for their service, but point out that an organization with 35-40k members that's running an e-commerce site needs to see that given the importance of that site to the organization, it's time to farm the job out to a pro and stop trying to beat him at his own game. IMHO, of course.

    Thank You for your service as a moderator!

    Best,

    GTRider
    Your welcome! Now this is just my view as I have nothing to do with what goes on in the background- only this side of the screen. I see it as very complicated to have two sites that need authentication off one password/login and they seemed to have done it for the most part. You can spend money on the home page which is a security complication, you can go from the forum to the home page (provided you have logged into both) and spent money (security again). Having these systems hold as one bounces back and forth is a big deal to figure out.
    The new home page has much more to it and it will take time to figure out how to get to what a member was used to seeing, what they want to see and what they need to see.
    A replication of an old system never occurs in the computer/web world unless it's from some country you've never heard of
    Gary

    Quote Originally Posted by mikegalbicka View Post
    GTrider, thanks for taking the time to express all those important points. At some point I am hoping someone will listen and act instead of offer an explanation why everything is fine and you just need to learn how to use it the way it is designed. If they really want to reach a younger demographic this will have to change.
    Well, I am sorta confused as it seems you interpret my comments as telling "everything is fine". I don't know if everything is fine- for every user. I myself don't use the flea market and only go to take a look when a member has a question- and try to find an answer.
    I actually think that that the younger demographics will do better if they joined say- tomorrow. They would have no knowledge of the "old" flea market and therefore wouldn't be trying to run or see the new flea market as the old.
    I am still of the opinion a lot of the view trouble is user based, that is the members choice of computer brand. If I was to go and purchase comparable hardware from Sony, HP, Acer, Toshiba and Dell, running Windoze 8, when I turned them all on- the views and operation would be different. They would all do the same thing 12 ways thanks MS, but they would have to be figured out.
    There a probably some glitches but this is what we have. I will be something to work on and there will always a different view/ way to work the system.
    Gary
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
    Mod Squad
    2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

  8. #38
    I have had nothing but trouble with the new flea market. I contacted Panjo and the reply was "Try using Firefox or another internet engine". I did and had to download an update to some software to run the flea market site. My internet security didn't like this at all. I uninstalled the download, but now I have pop-ups on a lot of sites that I go to that I do not want to see.

    The flea market is one of the most important parts of the website to me and I am completely frustrated with what I see when I try to view the items (I have not even tried to post anything myself because of all of the problems I have experienced).

    If Panjo thinks 1% dissatisfaction is unacceptable then they can certainly include me in that percentile!!!

  9. #39
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Check your settings. Firefox has a box to check to block pop-up's.
    OM
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  10. #40
    Certifiable Old Fart beemerdons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikegalbicka View Post
    GTrider, thanks for taking the time to express all those important points. At some point I am hoping someone will listen and act instead of offer an explanation why everything is fine and you just need to learn how to use it the way it is designed. If they really want to reach a younger demographic this will have to change.
    +1, Gunny; lots of Members here have given up on the BMW MOA Flea Market, we just use Adventure Rider, Cycle Trader or other simple to use applications to buy and sell!
    Last edited by beemerdons; 02-01-2015 at 03:03 PM.
    Don Stanley; aka Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina"
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  11. #41
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beemerdons View Post
    most Members here have given up on the BMW MOA Flea Market
    Most is kinda a big word Don. Could you send me the stats via the private message system?
    Try to remember, the old F/M had to go due to technology, when we had it in the forum itself (like ADV), there was a lot of complaining, and now we are working through this system.
    If you have had a specific problem, let me know and I'll work with you to get you through it.
    Gary
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Your welcome! Now this is just my view as I have nothing to do with what goes on in the background- only this side of the screen. I see it as very complicated to have two sites that need authentication off one password/login and they seemed to have done it for the most part. You can spend money on the home page which is a security complication, you can go from the forum to the home page (provided you have logged into both) and spent money (security again). Having these systems hold as one bounces back and forth is a big deal to figure out.
    The new home page has much more to it and it will take time to figure out how to get to what a member was used to seeing, what they want to see and what they need to see.
    A replication of an old system never occurs in the computer/web world unless it's from some country you've never heard of
    Gary


    Well, I am sorta confused as it seems you interpret my comments as telling "everything is fine". I don't know if everything is fine- for every user. I myself don't use the flea market and only go to take a look when a member has a question- and try to find an answer.
    I actually think that that the younger demographics will do better if they joined say- tomorrow. They would have no knowledge of the "old" flea market and therefore wouldn't be trying to run or see the new flea market as the old.
    I am still of the opinion a lot of the view trouble is user based, that is the members choice of computer brand. If I was to go and purchase comparable hardware from Sony, HP, Acer, Toshiba and Dell, running Windoze 8, when I turned them all on- the views and operation would be different. They would all do the same thing 12 ways thanks MS, but they would have to be figured out.
    There a probably some glitches but this is what we have. I will be something to work on and there will always a different view/ way to work the system.
    Gary
    Ok, I'm going to chime in and Omega Man, please don't take this the wrong way. I appreciate all you do for the club. However, I don't believe our problems are caused by different brands of computers or even PC vs. MAC vs. iPad vs. Android tablet. I've frequented quite a few forums with flea markets (including the old MOA one) and have never had the problems I've had with this one. The MOA flea market for me is one of the most important parts of my membership. The new Panjo Marketplace is second-rate and I am wondering how well vetted they were when the decision was made to use their services. Did anyone review the features with them before launch? If so, it seems that whoever did was not a user of the old Flea Market. For instance, the Buy Now button is not in the spirit of our members who like to interact by email or phone when buying/selling items. I had an item for sale and had an interested buyer email me, and before we could exchange information, another buyer hit the Buy Now button. A couple of us gave feedback on that at least a month ago and it has not yet been addressed. When placing an ad, it asks for my PayPal information purportedly to make it easier for the buyer to pay right away with no interaction. I will not enter my PayPal information when placing an ad, because who is to say my information is safe with an entity that can't put forth a site that works? One other issue is that the sort function works maybe half of the time when I try to sort by type of motorcycle (i.e. Airheads). A blank screen comes up. That happens for a lot of us when merely trying to access the Marketplace, according to the poll. Those of us members who utilize this feature of our membership been very patient with this process. It took a long time, if I remember correctly, where we did not have a working Flea Market because the new one was being built. Now that it's here, it does not work and our feedback seems to be falling on deaf ears. Quite frankly, I am tired of hearing excuses and questions about what browser a person is using. Please! We need professional help with our site.
    Cromwell2

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  13. #43
    Back in the saddle again mikegalbicka's Avatar
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    Thanks for taking the time to post these comments Penny. I agree. As I have posted before all of my testing is done on up to date devices fully patched of different types and flavors including multiple browsers. I have made a living as an IT Director for 20 years. The problem ain't me or what I am using or how I connect, he said hoping someone would hear.

  14. #44
    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    Penny -

    My thoughts on your post:

    The MOA flea market for me is one of the most important parts of my membership. The new Panjo Marketplace is second-rate and I am wondering how well vetted they were when the decision was made to use their services. Did anyone review the features with them before launch? If so, it seems that whoever did was not a user of the old Flea Market.
    Since the old FM was not in a state to be continued or transferred to the new version of vBulletin, it came down to writing a completely new FM or using an existing marketplace. The former approach was well outside what the MOA could afford...I'm not privy to the finances, but that seems a reasonable statement. Since Panjo was an existing utility within vBulletin, that was strongly considered. I contacted 3 webmasters who were running Panjo and they gave me a review which basically said they liked and had no real issues. But you're probably right, I'm not a user of online markets so I was looking at them that way. I was relying on others who have used Panjo and there wasn't any serious downside that was relayed to me.

    One other issue is that the sort function works maybe half of the time when I try to sort by type of motorcycle (i.e. Airheads). A blank screen comes up. A blank screen comes up. That happens for a lot of us when merely trying to access the Marketplace, according to the poll.
    I thought the poll was about whether the new market hangs when loading...I didn't see it being specifically an issue with sorting. The old FM was really bad at sorting. If I wanted to see all Airheads, I'd click that category and if I wanted to see more than just 10 on the page, when I clicked on 50 per page, I ended up getting the entire FM, not just Airheads. People seem to forget the bad features of the old FM. When I've gone to the new marketplace to look into problems that people are having, I've never really had an issue. It sorted all Airheads just fine for me right now. And there is the very real fact that it works fine for some people while others have problems. That's a hard nut to crack. But people have to realize, there are an incredible number of options for hardware and software, not to mention the fickle Internet that exists between all of us and the flea market.

    Now that it's here, it does not work and our feedback seems to be falling on deaf ears. Quite frankly, I am tired of hearing excuses and questions about what browser a person is using. Please! We need professional help with our site.
    I can assure you that people are looking at this. Everyone's feedback is appreciated and it's great that people are responding to the poll, etc. This helps to define some of the issues that the users are having. Please keep providing any input you might have. If you want to contact the people who are actively working on the new marketplace, I'd say contact the MOA market admin at marketplaceadmin@bmwmoa.org and/or Panjo at info@panjo.com.
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  15. #45
    Registered User gfspencer's Avatar
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    I just clicked it for the first time. It loaded fine.

    I don't see anything I want to buy but I sure do have a lot of BMW stuff that I could sell.
    2015 R nineT

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