Flea Market Poll

Mike -

I'm not suggesting that users do it in a different way. Based upon these recent discussions, it's now been raised that maybe the path to getting to the FM is helping/hurting. I wouldn't expect the average user to do this experimentation, but someone should. Maybe Panjo should?? It may be a piece to the puzzle. BTW...I typically open the FM in a new tab and haven't had that many problems.

Possibly someone could create a bookmark that goes direct to the FM...you don't need to come to the forum. What would that look like...more or less problems?

As for the programming on the MOA homepage...that's outside my skillset. It's a function of the programmers and how they wanted to do. But as you're saying, the point of creating another level of clicks for the user is generally not a good thing...the number of pages to get somewhere needs to be kept to a minimum or reasonable level.

20774 said:

I'm not suggesting that users do it in a different way.

Click to expand...

Sorry Kurt, I guess I misinterpreted this statement. My mistake.

"So, I suggest someone who has a problem one way, try the other. The other can be going from the MOA page and another could be right-clicking and opening a new tabbed window."

Well, Mike, I guess you got me there! Since you have been carrying the banner a bit, as well as a few others, who seem to have some knowledge of browsers, I was probably targeting them. Some quick experimentation could reveal a solution or...maybe not?

Hi everyone,

Just want to let you know that I'm here and following this thread as everything unfolds. BMWMOA is one of our only forum partners that allow themes, not the only one. Sorry if i misspoke earlier. That being said, we are still working towards getting this all figured out and fixed. The error rate that is demonstrated by the poll is definitely high, anything above 1% would be considered high.

We are currently working through the issue on our beta testing platform and hope to have it fully resolved shortly. I will give another update the next time anything changes!

Sincerely,
Niko @ Panjo

With the old format can't remember any thread going on and on about flea market not working. Maybe some complaints but I never heard them.

Seriously, I don't bother looking at it now and in the past I bought stuff. In the old days I found it easy to use the printed adds. Get home from work, call a dude up LD touch dial land line, cut them a personal check, week later stuff arrives on front step. No inter web needed.

Last summer kid asked me, "What's that?" I said, "A radio!" He asked, "What's that?"

There's a point where progress becomes redundant. Slick becomes white noise.

Remember when a paper kid threw the want adds on the step, you grabbed a cup of joe at the kitchen table on a crisp Sat. morning and looked through the motorcycle columns?

There it was, your next bike in all its glory, a 1975 BMW R90S, and only 2500 bucks. Hey, I'll call on the phone and hear what the guy has to say.

No staring at a screen as battery powers down, no trying to refocus your vision if you look up, no clicking around in frustration, no bogus adds, caveat emptor reigned, close the adds and put them in the bird cage. There really wasn't much of a problem.

panjo said:

We are currently working through the issue on our beta testing platform and hope to have it fully resolved shortly. I will give another update the next time anything changes!

Sincerely,
Niko @ Panjo

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Thanks for the feedback Niko.

What Mike said. Exactly.

mikegalbicka said:

Kurt, I assumed he meant that when he tries to use the flea market as outlined in this post (click the Flea Market link in the banner at the top of this page between Gear Shop and Forum) it is not working for him. But if he accesses it through the forum links (http://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?109-Member-Marketplace) it works fine.

Click to expand...

When I launch the flea market from the bar that starts with Home and ends with Help - perhaps 1/4 of the way down the page from the top, I have the problems I described earlier. If I go into the Forum and scroll down to the flea market it works OK.

Beemer01 said:

When I launch the flea market from the bar that starts with Home and ends with Help - perhaps 1/4 of the way down the page from the top, I have the problems I described earlier. If I go into the Forum and scroll down to the flea market it works OK.

Click to expand...

Scrolling down in the forum to the "flea market" is not really the same thing as clicking on the link at the top of the page. The items inside the forum down the page are merely extensions of the Panjo market at the top of the page. If you go to the actual Panjo market, find an ad, and locate the link at the bottom which has the words "See what people are saying about this item:", this takes you to a discussion area inside the forum. This discussion area allows you to have conversations with the seller.

The problems that seem to crop up are going to the Panjo link at the top of the page and then not having the resulting page refresh or load up so you can see any of the ads.

Most of the time I access the MOA site/forums/marketplace from an iPad running the latest available iOS. The marketplace often fails to load, or loads incompletely--not showing all the photos on a page, for example. And while the new look on the home page is nice, it doesn't display as much info as the old page did, and finding some things (like what's the current "picture this") seems harder and takes more digging than it used to. I do appreciate the efforts of all involved on the new site, and am hoping that it will continue to evolve to a point where the graphical changes are more in line with good user interface and usability guidelines. Once we're there, I'll be as happy as I am at M$ bringing back a useable Start button in Windows 10.

Best,

8ninety8 said:

With the old format can't remember any thread going on and on about flea market not working. Maybe some complaints but I never heard them.

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It would be real if we could forget the "old" flea market. It wasn't removed/taken away or changed as some sort of way of messing with the members.
Once again, the flea market was written by a very talented past member for a version of the forum software that doesn't exist anymore. The "old" flea market was in use as far as the forum software could function with it.
If anyone has purchased a program for their old computer, only to find the new program won't integrate or run (even load)- it's that simple.
OM

mikegalbicka said:

I think this is all very confusing for the average user and that helps lead to their frustration. I do not understand myself why clicking the "Flea Market" link in the banner of the MOA homepage does not take you to the flea market but instead takes you to a page that discusses the flea market and then has a link to click that takes you to the flea market finally.

Click to expand...

I read that process is the reason why members don't see the "retired" flea market- and like it as it explains the goings on.
One of the problems is most likely, that a user is interested in "getting to the flea market". If, after clicking on the flea market from the home page, they took the time to scroll down through the information posted, they could read a tutorial on how the flea market now works, and what to expect.

I like to remind computer users that the computer does not know what you want to do with it- it needs to be instructed.
OM

Omega Man said:

I read that process is the reason why members don't see the "retired" flea market- and like it as it explains the goings on.
One of the problems is most likely, that a user is interested in "getting to the flea market". If, after clicking on the flea market from the home page, they took the time to scroll down through the information posted, they could read a tutorial on how the flea market now works, and what to expect.

I like to remind computer users that the computer does not know what you want to do with it- it needs to be instructed.
OM

Click to expand...

But that's the problem--an informational website like this one should never require a tutorial for use. It should be as intuitive and responsive as an old rotary dial or push-button phone, still the gold standards of design for intuitive use. The subsection of this thread that addresses *getting to* the Flea Market could be resolved swiftly and completely if the link on the home page did what it purports to do; take one to the flea market. Once there, a "Where's the old Flea Market?" link could address the need for and nature of the change, and from that info there'd best be a link right back to Panjo.

People selling click-thru advertising will tell you that you have 60 seconds to get a page loaded and land the user in the general area of what they came for. Any longer than that and users bail, and that's especially true with the tech-savvy thirty-somethings that BMW and MOA are trying to attract. Simple. Direct. Fast.

Best,

GTRider said:

But that's the problem--an informational website like this one should never require a tutorial for use. It should be as intuitive and responsive as an old rotary dial or push-button phone, still the gold standards of design for intuitive use. The subsection of this thread that addresses *getting to* the Flea Market could be resolved swiftly and completely if the link on the home page did what it purports to do; take one to the flea market. Once there, a "Where's the old Flea Market?" link could address the need for and nature of the change, and from that info there'd best be a link right back to Panjo.

Click to expand...

I know what you are saying, and from my perspective your concept only applies in a perfect environment. In this part of the forum, there are 9 how-to stickies on everything from creating/adding an avatar to posting a picture. They are in essence a tutorial and I believe are necessary.

People selling click-thru advertising will tell you that you have 60 seconds to get a page loaded and land the user in the general area of what they came for. Any longer than that and users bail, and that's especially true with the tech-savvy thirty-somethings that BMW and MOA are trying to attract. Simple. Direct. Fast.

Click to expand...

I think that if everyone was a pro at this, there wouldn't be any questions. I don't think we are selling advertising- click through or otherwise. My impression is a place for members to showcase surplus gear they would like to sell.

One more example... Go to the home page and follow the links for Picture This. Then please show me where, on those pages, the hapless member is informed as to how he could submit a photo for either the magazine or the blog.


Best,

Click to expand...

If you are signed in and go to that "Picture This" area, you might find this-

Visit the PICTURE THIS! page to see the topic for upcoming issues and how to submit your work of art to the magazine. Visit the Picture This! MEMBER SUBMISSION PAGE and submit your photos of the current topic. Send us something really great and we'll place it in the homepage slideshow above.
I'm one of the "hapless members" and it's lookin' good to me.
If you need help just ask, there are a lot of new things and while I don't know all of them- I'm happy to help figure out the answers.
Gary

pardon the blue but I didn't want to take the time to import a screen-shot

Omega Man said:

I think that if everyone was a pro at this, there wouldn't be any questions. I don't think we are selling advertising- click through or otherwise. My impression is a place for members to showcase surplus gear they would like to sell.

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No, not selling click-throughs in Panjo but buyers and sellers alike still have a limit to how much jockeying they are willing to do or how much they are willing to dig or wait for an item or page --there are a lot of other options for both groups.

Omega Man said:

If you are signed in and go to that "Picture This" area, you might find this-

Visit the PICTURE THIS! page to see the topic for upcoming issues and how to submit your work of art to the magazine. Visit the Picture This! MEMBER SUBMISSION PAGE and submit your photos of the current topic. Send us something really great and we'll place it in the homepage slideshow above.

Click to expand...

Aye, there's the rub--authentication doesn't always seem to pass between the forum, Panjo, and the main page. Hit the Forum/Panjo first and be authenticated, then jump to the home page and follow the link from there to Picture This and you may or may not get to see the submission section at the bottom. It seems to be much more undependable in the mobile version of the page than the desktop version--I didn't realize that until I parked the tablet and flipped on my laptop.

Bottom line, navigation is still a bit of a puzzle on what has the feel of a mashup composed of three separate sites. Posting an item for sale in Panjo is still a frustrating exercise for those who just want to list an item with a price/description, include contact info for Q's on product or shipping costs, and arrange payment directly between buyer and seller without passing Paypal info through Panjo or jumping through the shipping hoops that Panjo insists upon before accepting an ad.

IMHO, members have been pretty patient in waiting for the finished version of the new web presence and marketplace. If the web changeover has been done by a contractor then it's high time to hold the contractor's feet to the fire. If it's being done by volunteer labor then I'd say Thank You to the volunteers for their service, but point out that an organization with 35-40k members that's running an e-commerce site needs to see that given the importance of that site to the organization, it's time to farm the job out to a pro and stop trying to beat him at his own game. IMHO, of course.

Thank You for your service as a moderator!

Best,

GTRider

GTrider, thanks for taking the time to express all those important points. At some point I am hoping someone will listen and act instead of offer an explanation why everything is fine and you just need to learn how to use it the way it is designed. If they really want to reach a younger demographic this will have to change.

Not sure if anything has changed on the back end since we don't get much feedback but the flea market has been loading fine for me for about 5 days now. Hope this trend continues.

GTRider said:

No, not selling click-throughs in Panjo but buyers and sellers alike still have a limit to how much jockeying they are willing to do or how much they are willing to dig or wait for an item or page --there are a lot of other options for both groups.



Aye, there's the rub--authentication doesn't always seem to pass between the forum, Panjo, and the main page. Hit the Forum/Panjo first and be authenticated, then jump to the home page and follow the link from there to Picture This and you may or may not get to see the submission section at the bottom. It seems to be much more undependable in the mobile version of the page than the desktop version--I didn't realize that until I parked the tablet and flipped on my laptop.

Bottom line, navigation is still a bit of a puzzle on what has the feel of a mashup composed of three separate sites. Posting an item for sale in Panjo is still a frustrating exercise for those who just want to list an item with a price/description, include contact info for Q's on product or shipping costs, and arrange payment directly between buyer and seller without passing Paypal info through Panjo or jumping through the shipping hoops that Panjo insists upon before accepting an ad.

IMHO, members have been pretty patient in waiting for the finished version of the new web presence and marketplace. If the web changeover has been done by a contractor then it's high time to hold the contractor's feet to the fire. If it's being done by volunteer labor then I'd say Thank You to the volunteers for their service, but point out that an organization with 35-40k members that's running an e-commerce site needs to see that given the importance of that site to the organization, it's time to farm the job out to a pro and stop trying to beat him at his own game. IMHO, of course.

Thank You for your service as a moderator!

Best,

GTRider

Click to expand...

Your welcome! Now this is just my view as I have nothing to do with what goes on in the background- only this side of the screen. I see it as very complicated to have two sites that need authentication off one password/login and they seemed to have done it for the most part. You can spend money on the home page which is a security complication, you can go from the forum to the home page (provided you have logged into both) and spent money (security again). Having these systems hold as one bounces back and forth is a big deal to figure out.
The new home page has much more to it and it will take time to figure out how to get to what a member was used to seeing, what they want to see and what they need to see.
A replication of an old system never occurs in the computer/web world unless it's from some country you've never heard of
Gary

mikegalbicka said:

GTrider, thanks for taking the time to express all those important points. At some point I am hoping someone will listen and act instead of offer an explanation why everything is fine and you just need to learn how to use it the way it is designed. If they really want to reach a younger demographic this will have to change.

Click to expand...

Well, I am sorta confused as it seems you interpret my comments as telling "everything is fine". I don't know if everything is fine- for every user. I myself don't use the flea market and only go to take a look when a member has a question- and try to find an answer.
I actually think that that the younger demographics will do better if they joined say- tomorrow. They would have no knowledge of the "old" flea market and therefore wouldn't be trying to run or see the new flea market as the old.
I am still of the opinion a lot of the view trouble is user based, that is the members choice of computer brand. If I was to go and purchase comparable hardware from Sony, HP, Acer, Toshiba and Dell, running Windoze 8, when I turned them all on- the views and operation would be different. They would all do the same thing 12 ways thanks MS, but they would have to be figured out.
There a probably some glitches but this is what we have. I will be something to work on and there will always a different view/ way to work the system.
Gary

I have had nothing but trouble with the new flea market. I contacted Panjo and the reply was "Try using Firefox or another internet engine". I did and had to download an update to some software to run the flea market site. My internet security didn't like this at all. I uninstalled the download, but now I have pop-ups on a lot of sites that I go to that I do not want to see.

The flea market is one of the most important parts of the website to me and I am completely frustrated with what I see when I try to view the items (I have not even tried to post anything myself because of all of the problems I have experienced).

If Panjo thinks 1% dissatisfaction is unacceptable then they can certainly include me in that percentile!!!

Check your settings. Firefox has a box to check to block pop-up's.
OM

mikegalbicka said:

GTrider, thanks for taking the time to express all those important points. At some point I am hoping someone will listen and act instead of offer an explanation why everything is fine and you just need to learn how to use it the way it is designed. If they really want to reach a younger demographic this will have to change.

Click to expand...

+1, Gunny; lots of Members here have given up on the BMW MOA Flea Market, we just use Adventure Rider, Cycle Trader or other simple to use applications to buy and sell!