"But I did not cause it"

dieselyoda said:

I never said I was representing all of Canada, I said "here". My address is in my profile.

"PENDING A SENTENCING HEARING" is at large, free to conduct her life until such time in the distant future a decision is made, which she will appeal.

Look, I am not making any judgements about any jurisdiction or any action that could occur anywhere else on the planet. I have expressed my facts accurately about what happens in Manitoba, Canada.

I would think anybody from BC would look at the horrific runaway truck accidents which resulted in minor penalties to the drivers/owners and wonder why it continues to happen.

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You said, "Little justice as she was found "stupid" criminally but since she had no intent to commit the crime, she remains free."

You did not say, "...free pending a sentencing hearing." Seeing as we're discussing legalities, there is a WORLD of difference.

As for the rest of your erroneous postings, sorry, not going to derail this thread any further.

Well she's in The Peach State and is subject to being sued and since she's charged with a felony she could receive a year or more of confinement if found guilty. I doubt she will spend much if any time in jail. Her criminal lawyer will take a fair bit of her assets and the civil suit and the lawyer for that will be ruinous unless she has very good insurance. Her life must be a nightmare and will be for a long time, but not as long as the rider's.

I find this thread to be very instructive for all of us who routinely ride through each other's jurisdictional areas. We cannot assume laws, their enforcement, and the judicial system including courts will be exactly as we know it in our home state/province/country. We must be as informed as much as reasonably possible for new regions and then act in a common sense and prudent way on the roads we are so lucky to travel freely.

This has been an interesting thread.

In my view, the woman was responsible for this accident and should pay the price for her actions.

Related to this, I once was riding on the Blue Ridge Parkway and found myself behind a slower moving car who was doing perhaps 5 mph less than the posted speed limit. Whenever I tried to pass on the open straights, the driver would speed up above the speed limit to prevent me from passing, then slow down again on the twisty bits. It was obvious that he was doing this in an attempt to prevent me from passing. Of course, I eventually passed using the much better acceleration capability of the motorcycle, but this driver was essentially doing the same as the Georgia woman although he never moved into the left lane. I suppose a court of law would find his actions to be perfectly legal though.

Living near the Dragon in east TN, it's not uncommon to get stuck behind an out-of-state car on twisty roads where the driver brakes and slows for every curve or squirrel, yet speeds up to the speed limit on the straights. People aren't doing this intentionally to slow you down; they're just nervous about driving on mountain roads. But their driving behavior does make it harder to pass safely.

natrab said:

Honestly, at the speed he was going he was riding very recklessly. I would have a hard time purely blaming her for the incident as there was hardly sufficient time for anyone to react to a motorcycle approaching from behind doing what looked like more than double her speed. Her reaction was a poor one, but it was still the bike making a reckless pass. If she had needed to make a hard stop for a deer or something, he would have still either gone flying into her car and/or off the road. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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I disagree with your word choice- "her reaction was a poor one". I find her action malicious, not "poor". Was he being reckless, then and in the past(as she mentioned his prior high speeds in a residential area), certainly. That doesn't take away her guilt, though his actions did contribute to his being injured.
As to the "Canadian version"- My two youngest son's had a "sort of similar" incident in a car where they passed a guy in a legal passing zone on a rural two lane hwy.. He was going real slow & they were not speeding either. They gave a left signal, then passed him and as they got to the point of almost by his car he turned left into (my car!) the car & he hit the rt quarter panel/rt rear wheel area & spun them i nto the right side ditch. They called home, uninjured & said they were waiting across the road in a gas station nearby the scene. When I arrived our kids said they thought the guy was drunk. He was in the area mouthing off and I got there and it was obvious he was drunk to me-I've seen lots of them!
FWIW, I asked the state cop( a well known hothead in our area at the time) if he had "checked the guy" to which he got angry & told me to get away from the scene.
The result was a " no guilt" accident report, called a 50/50 report in KY)(no mention of guy being obviously drunk) as my son's had not "sounded their horn" prior to their legal pass. In KY that's a "rule of the road" to honk-even if you do signal. Was new to me at that time. I have no idea why he wasn't tested for being drunk but it didn't happen. Interestingly he had a prior DUI & a resultant death. It was his GF's car & he had no license & was driving on her prohibitive risk policy covering her car for liability only. "They" made a charge against my car insurance for repairing her 1974 Oldsmobile(worth maybe $750 tops) for several thousand $$$ in damages to the Olds. I repaired my car as liability only on teen drivers-plus I'm a "car repair type guy".
The similarity is in that the MC rider was passing her. Did he sound his horn? Was it a legal place to pass?
The hit them from behind thing is in effect in USA too but I thought it mattered if the vehicle being passed failed to maintain their lane,etc.?
I once was rear hit(Ill.) at a 4-way stop sign where I started forward then stopped again, as another car ran their stop sign and the car behind me wasn't mindful of the event in front of me. Guy was ticked off at me for a "false start" but in my case I was avoiding a car. He had to pay cause it was a rear hit.

Lee200 said:

This has been an interesting thread.

In my view, the woman was responsible for this accident and should pay the price for her actions.

Related to this, I once was riding on the Blue Ridge Parkway and found myself behind a slower moving car who was doing perhaps 5 mph less than the posted speed limit. Whenever I tried to pass on the open straights, the driver would speed up above the speed limit to prevent me from passing, then slow down again on the twisty bits. It was obvious that he was doing this in an attempt to prevent me from passing. Of course, I eventually passed using the much better acceleration capability of the motorcycle, but this driver was essentially doing the same as the Georgia woman although he never moved into the left lane. I suppose a court of law would find his actions to be perfectly legal though.

Living near the Dragon in east TN, it's not uncommon to get stuck behind an out-of-state car on twisty roads where the driver brakes and slows for every curve or squirrel, yet speeds up to the speed limit on the straights. People aren't doing this intentionally to slow you down; they're just nervous about driving on mountain roads. But their driving behavior does make it harder to pass safely.

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I, a long time MC rider , do exactly as you state(slow down at curves/speed up in straights (who doesn't?), when driving through the Dragon & pulling my RV camp trailer on way home to KY from FL,etc..I live in the mtns and am not being nervous, just sane & safe. It is also an area where log trucks,etc. are commonly encountered. it is NOT a race track as some seem to think. I do watch there for MC's that want to overtake me but that doesn't change the fact that it's a public road and not a MC playground as such.

Man, I just have to move to Europe, none of this d1ck swinging, narcissistic, sociopath, and borderline psychopathic behavior on the roads there, in fact almost 100% opposite.

The first time I traveled in Europe, I was so dumbfounded at the respect for other motorists and especially riders! I had to look in my mirror and make sure I had not turned into Moses, as not only cars in my lane, but those in the opposing lane pulled over making a lane down the middle so I could safely overtake. It was like the parting of the sea!

Of course the exception in Europe is in Italy, when you catch an Italian, especially a young kid in a clapped out Fiat, they wick it up and drive the wheels off it, if you still hang with them, they soon pull over and let you go on your way. They just want to make sure you are worthy of the courtesy.

pffog said:

Man, I just have to move to Europe, none of this d1ck swinging, narcissistic, sociopath, and borderline psychopathic behavior on the roads there, in fact almost 100% opposite.

The first time I traveled in Europe, I was so dumbfounded at the respect for other motorists and especially riders! I had to look in my mirror and make sure I had not turned into Moses, as not only cars in my lane, but those in the opposing lane pulled over making a lane down the middle so I could safely overtake. It was like the parting of the sea!

Of course the exception in Europe is in Italy, when you catch an Italian, especially a young kid in a clapped out Fiat, they wick it up and drive the wheels off it, if you still hang with them, they soon pull over and let you go on your way. They just want to make sure you are worthy of the courtesy.

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It's largely that way in Texas too. The most courteous drivers I have ever encountered. I was told that for purposes of pulling over to let someone pass, law enforcement folks let them use the shoulder as sort of a "3rd lane". I was just down in Texas during a trip and following a string of slow moving trucks. When an opportunity finally came to safely pass them all I found there was a white sport ute in front of all the trucks. It was a cop, and he also pulled over and I figured he just wanted me to get past him so he could pull me over. I gave a thankful, friendly wave as I passed, hoping for the best. He waved back and his lights never came on. I had no doubt exceeded the posted speed limit to pass, but he seemed more concerned with getting over so I could safely pass and be on my way. Wow, there are some friendly drivers in Texas.

pffog said:

Of course the exception in Europe is in Italy.....

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I drove a Dodge Power Wagon pick-up through central Milan. It was like trying to maneuver an aircraft carrier through a small boat regatta. The numerous traffic circles were chaos.

I've lived in Europe for several years. All countries have their share of idiotic, aggressive and dangerous drivers.

Yes,the prosecutor can have her news interview played in court for the jury. Her comments were made publicly.

We only see her car when it was in the middle of the road and moving left at an angle, to block him. That, in itself, is bad enough for her.
She admits to using her vehicle to try to slow him down. So, she intentionally placed an impediment ( her car ) in the roadway as an obstacle! She's responsible for whatever occurs at that point, because of her willfully reckless behavior, regardless of his having time to stop or not. He may have had time to stop, but he may have chose to pass her. When she moved left, as she admitted, then there was no room to complete the pass.
But, I think it was the news anchor who said she pulled out. Did that mean she pulled out from her driveway after seeing him approach? She is most definitely guilty. The best she can hope for is her attorney negotiating a plea deal. I believe that will be the outcome, it won't make it to trial.

pffog said:

Man, I just have to move to Europe, none of this d1ck swinging, narcissistic, sociopath, and borderline psychopathic behavior on the roads there, in fact almost 100% opposite.

The first time I traveled in Europe, I was so dumbfounded at the respect for other motorists and especially riders! I had to look in my mirror and make sure I had not turned into Moses, as not only cars in my lane, but those in the opposing lane pulled over making a lane down the middle so I could safely overtake. It was like the parting of the sea!

Of course the exception in Europe is in Italy, when you catch an Italian, especially a young kid in a clapped out Fiat, they wick it up and drive the wheels off it, if you still hang with them, they soon pull over and let you go on your way. They just want to make sure you are worthy of the courtesy.

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A big +1 on your post. They know how to drive and ride because it takes more than a 1 day school to get a license. I love riding in Europe!

akbeemer said:

I drove a Dodge Power Wagon pick-up through central Milan. It was like trying to maneuver an aircraft carrier through a small boat regatta. The numerous traffic circles were chaos.

I've lived in Europe for several years. All countries have their share of idiotic, aggressive and dangerous drivers.

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Cities are a whole different ball game, that is why I avoid them like the Plague, home or abroad.

pffog said:

Cities are a whole different ball game, that is why I avoid them like the Plague, home or abroad.

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Amen!

Unless there is a reason for me to want to go in to a city, like say Beale Street in Memphis, I also avoid them like the Plague. The best thing about cities is there are roads leading out of them, and usually roads to go around them.

Who "caused" the accident is cut and dried.

If the bike had been doing 20mph, but the lady did what she did, there would still have been a collision except for the bike's emergency attempts to avoid it.

If the bike had been doing 200mph, but the lady stayed in her lane, there would have been no collision.

The bikes's speed played NO part in the fact that there was a collision, just the severity.

The only thing that determined whether there was a collision or not, was the lady's actions.

From a traffic law standpoint, it was an unsafe lane change on the lady's part. From a criminal standpoint it was assault with a deadly weapon boardering on attempted murder.

Can I volunteer for the jury?

So it appears the woman made a dangerous lane changing while attempting to slow the rider down. How can that be attempted murder? Seems her thought process was that if she blocked his way, he would slow down. Yes it was extremely stupid and ill-thought, but the way it's currently stated, her intention was not to cause harm to the rider or make him crash. Her actions really just constitute negligence or possibly gross negligence in her driving. I'm just being the devil's advocate.

The real moral of the story is that no matter who is at fault in the collision, the motorcyclist pretty much always loses. It's on each and every one of us to ride prudently and with due regard, which the rider in the video was clearly not doing.

natrab said:

So it appears the woman made a dangerous lane changing while attempting to slow the rider down. How can that be attempted murder?

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If you willfully turned your car into a pedestrian, what would that be?

If you willfully turned your car into a bicyclist, what would that be?

If you willfully turned your car into a motorcyclist, what would that be?

She WILLFULLY turned her car into THE PATH of the motorcylist. That's why it's only borderline.

Same weapon. Same OBVIOUS potential for death. Intent is less clear. (Gee officer, I only INTENDED to scare the little kid on his skateboard by swerving towards him, but he dodged the wrong way. Oops.).

I don't think she INTENDED to cause this harm.
A pharmaceutical company doesn't INTEND for a drug to have deleterious and unseen side effects; but sometimes they do.

Both are liable for the harm caused.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/motorcyclist-talks-channel-2-about-crash-left-him-/ng8np/

The question that I haven't seen posed is what the outcome might have been if he spent his money on protective gear instead of a go pro. Maybe better, maybe the same - not sure wht hit his leg. I'll ponder that on my ride home today in ATGATT's little bother, MOTGMOTT (most of the gear, most of the time). Everything except riding pants means the jeans I have on won't protect me from much if the unfortunate happens. Sure would suck to lose a leg with a perfectly good foot down their inside its boot.

roborider said:

I don't think she INTENDED to cause this harm.

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Under what circumstances would putting your car in the path of a speeding motorcycle ever possibly end well???

ClassicVW said:

The best she can hope for is her attorney negotiating a plea deal. I believe that will be the outcome, it won't make it to trial.

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That was my thought as well.