2015 Models

Tewster2 said:

All of the replays have merit. What it boils down to.... I want a BMW that weighs no more than 500 pounds, has a conventional swing arm and shaft drive, ABS, 100 hp, 80 pound feet of torque, two air and oil cooled cylinders, basic fuel injection without all the fancy mapping, heated grips, hydraulic valves, tubeless tires, NO electric windshield, 6 gallon fuel tank, NO ESA, NO traction control, wet clutch, external fuel filter and pump, NO full coverage plastic, choice of touring and a sport windshields that actually work, 3 year UNLIMITED MILEAGE warranty, no seat as the stock seats are a waist of my money (I will furnish my own), simple basic headlight, and knowledgeable sales people just like the folks at Eurosport in Asheville. Is this too much to ask for? Or do the manufacturers continue the horsepower, gadget, and electronic war until it kills the pleasure of actually enjoying the ride and maintaining ones own machine? Honda may be on to something with their new line of simpler bikes that BTW have hydraulic valves with no maintenance, limited horsepower, and a reasonable cost to own. I love my GS but please stop with all the latest and greatest crap.

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If you wait long enough, Ural will have something.

On the other hand, Motoguzzi comes closer in some ways, not in others. I am not sure anyone makes the bike you want. Harley's and Victory's cover some of the bases too, but too heavy.

Tewster2 said:

Yep I am an older rider. I just want something a bit less complicated to make me feel a bit better when I am hundreds of miles from a BMW dealer camping in the mountains. The progress BMW is making with their bikes is really cool but where are you gonna find a final drive in Mongolia, an injector body in Peru, a ring antenna in the Yukon, an anti lock brake pump in Zambia, an ESA rear shock in Ukraine, a fuel pump in central Australia, or maybe a driveshaft in Vietnam? I love my GS but I see where BMW seems to be going with all the "progress". Bikes for people who buy the new model every year and don't ride the things to the ends of the earth like the reputation BMW built with quality well built easily repaired machinery of an earlier time in their near past. Just my 2cts worth from observing the recalls and level of longevity that I see based on my opinions and knowledge of the marque. Later...I'm going for a ride on my GS....yep I've got the AAA roadside assistance card in my wallet. Cheers.

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Lima. you'll get the injector body in Peru at the BMW dealership in Lima. I didn't bother searching for the other exotic locales as it only took 11 seconds on google to find the answer to one.

ponch1 said:

If you wait long enough, Ural will have something.

On the other hand, Motoguzzi comes closer in some ways, not in others. I am not sure anyone makes the bike you want. Harley's and Victory's cover some of the bases too, but too heavy.

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You know I have actually looked at the new Urals. One would fit just fine with the pace I ride now. Only problem is the gas mileage......

rangerreece said:

Lima. you'll get the injector body in Peru at the BMW dealership in Lima. I didn't bother searching for the other exotic locales as it only took 11 seconds on google to find the answer to one.

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Nice! How much does it cost?

I am not opposed to the introduction of new technologies, I actually welcome them, simply put innovation drives competition. I'm not one to lament over the simplicity and the supposed glory days where fuel injection, servos, antennas, and the like were not installed on motorcycles and I'm quite sure that if you could transport a modern motorcycle back in time 100 years, not one person of that time would think these were bad ideas or go back to riding what amounts to not much more than a motorized bicycle. That said, I would HOPE BMW recoginizes the need for sufficient reliability and quality control testing to minimize failures, as the newer technologies tend to produce very expensive repairs. I worry as I get older that I may not be able to afford the repairs of a brand (BMW) whose technological gizmo's were not sufficently scrutinized to provide affordable reliability, but it will be THEIR loss, not mine as I'm positive there will be other manufacturers who's products provide the reliably I require to continue to enjoy motorcycling affordably.

jandhumphreyme said:

I worry as I get older that I may not be able to afford the repairs of a brand (BMW) whose technological gizmo's were not sufficently scrutinized to provide affordable reliability, but it will be THEIR loss, not mine as I'm positive there will be other manufacturers who's products provide the reliably I require to continue to enjoy motorcycling affordably.

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If you're thinking the cost might be becoming excessive, how do you think younger riders feel? In the USA, affluence increases with age, such that the AARP generation has the greatest disposable income. It will be interesting when the young retirees choose not to afford BMW and H-D motorcycles.

comparing cost of motorcycles over the years.

In 1975 I bought a 1975 R75/6 for $3000. It was stock, nothing extra. In 1975 the American average wage was $8630 per year. So the stock BMW cost 35% of the average yearly salary.

In 2012, the average yearly salary was $44,321. The R1200R cost was $14,575. Or 33% of the American average wages.
Of course the R1200R is a much larger and much more high tech piece of machinery.

Not a huge difference in the percentage of the yearly average salary for the cost of an item that truth be told, is a luxury not a necessity.

dpmonk said:

In 1975 I bought a 1975 R75/6 for $3000. It was stock, nothing extra. In 1975 the American average wage was $8630 per year. So the stock BMW cost 35% of the average yearly salary.

In 2012, the average yearly salary was $44,321. The R1200R cost was $14,575. Or 33% of the American average wages.
Of course the R1200R is a much larger and much more high tech piece of machinery.

Not a huge difference in the percentage of the yearly average salary for the cost of an item that truth be told, is a luxury not a necessity.

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You are exactly right. You don't talk about how much something has increased in price with out putting it in perspective. You judge price by how long you have to work to pay for it. If you had to work for 6 months to buy something 25 years ago at the average income of the time and you can now buy it by working 5 months at the average income, the price has actually dropped regardless of the selling price.

dpmonk said:

In 1975 I bought a 1975 R75/6 for $3000. It was stock, nothing extra. In 1975 the American average wage was $8630 per year. So the stock BMW cost 35% of the average yearly salary.

In 2012, the average yearly salary was $44,321. The R1200R cost was $14,575. Or 33% of the American average wages.
Of course the R1200R is a much larger and much more high tech piece of machinery.

Not a huge difference in the percentage of the yearly average salary for the cost of an item that truth be told, is a luxury not a necessity.

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Ok, then explain why in 1986, when the median male income was $25,260, I purchased a brand new K75c for $4250 MSRP? That purchase was 17% of the median income or 1/2 the relative cost of your R75/6.

BMW is driven by market demand. Unfortunately, most 20 or 30 something's aren't in the market for an airhead, they demand technology and style. Take a look at the auto industry and you see cars becoming rolling communications centers. Look for a future BMW bike to allow texting on the fly.

I don't care for much of the technology, but for BMW to remain relevant for future riders the company and their products must evolve.

RandyBailey said:

BMW is driven by market demand. Unfortunately, most 20 or 30 something's aren't in the market for an airhead, they demand technology and style. Take a look at the auto industry and you see cars becoming rolling communications centers. Look for a future BMW bike to allow texting on the fly.

I don't care for much of the technology, but for BMW to remain relevant for future riders the company and their products must evolve.

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How many 20 and 30 yr olds do you see hanging around a BMW shop?

IMHO, these gadgets are added because it's easy.......

dpmonk said:

In 1975 I bought a 1975 R75/6 for $3000. It was stock, nothing extra. In 1975 the American average wage was $8630 per year. So the stock BMW cost 35% of the average yearly salary.

In 2012, the average yearly salary was $44,321. The R1200R cost was $14,575. Or 33% of the American average wages.
Of course the R1200R is a much larger and much more high tech piece of machinery.

Not a huge difference in the percentage of the yearly average salary for the cost of an item that truth be told, is a luxury not a necessity.

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Sorry, but according to the US census bureau

http://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-105.pdf

the median male income is 1975 was on the order of $17,670 or ~$8.80 per hr. Accordingly, your R75/6 cost 17% of the median male income.

Strange, that was just like my 1986 K75c, but nothing like the R1200R; which as you've shown costs 33% of the median wage

In my case it's not income so much as disposable income, such as from hitting the stock market big or an inheritance. I bought the K back in '86 because I had the cash, BMW kept the same models forever and they were know to be dependable. When I had a small windfall 2 years ago I looked at BMW's line up and bought a Ural. Among other reasons, the nearest dealer is 70 miles away, my Ural dealer is 1/2 hour away. I like the attitude of the Ural, I think BMW's have lost much of their identity with a hodgepodge of models, frequent major model changes and well publicized mechanical and electrical gremlins. Glad I got my K75, think I'll keep it.

36654 said:

If you're thinking the cost might be becoming excessive, how do you think younger riders feel? In the USA, affluence increases with age, such that the AARP generation has the greatest disposable income. It will be interesting when the young retirees choose not to afford BMW and H-D motorcycles.

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The future will certainly be interesting. As for young riders I really couldnt say how they feel about the costs of the new BMW bikes, I know as a young man I saw them as un affordable, but more importantly they were just flat assed, and downright unappealing, they could have been much cheaper, and they still wouldnt have gotten my money. They could have been the best thing on the road but they didnt suit my impression of what motorcycling was to me. As I matured, so did my taste, needs and view of the world and I began to appreciate the may attributes the brand had to offer. This I think is the challenge of all manufactures. I believe that some of the technologies being offered are of precived importance to the targeted demographic.

The point I didnt make very well in my original post is that it seems the largest gripe about the newer technologies from most posters is not their being offered, but their inability to perform reliably in the enviroment they operate in. I attribute this failure not to the technology itself, but a failure of the management/engineering/quality process. I belive when a manufacturer has a firm grasp on quality process's, realibilty follows. I also believe that long term realibility, low operating cost, vastly increase's brand loyalty and to a degree offsets initial cost. For example I would much rather have a motorcycle with a drive shaft which would go 100k miles than purchase 4 new chains over this same mileage at a cost of over 500 dollars, that was probably an inept example but Honda seems to understand realiability at least they did with one of my old cars which went to 265k miles with only wear items being replaced, before it was passed on and had another 40k put on it. Simple does not equate to quality, a points system is simple, but if the points are ****e, you cannot carry enough of them even if you can change them on the side of the road, in the middle of the night, in a rainstorm. It seems that many of the newer technologies being offered for motorcycles are comming from mature designs in the auto industry, which reduces the cost of development for the motorcycle manufactures, the short coming appears to be the adaptation of the technology in the motorcyle chasis which by nature does not offer the level of component protection or space an automobile does, this is not a problem of teh technology so much as it is of management/engineering/quality control. The future is interesting indeed, lots of innovation on the horizon. I cant wait.

jandhumphreyme said:

I know as a young man I saw them as un affordable, but more importantly they were just flat assed, and downright unappealing, they could have been much cheaper, and they still wouldnt have gotten my money.

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I wanted one when I was in High School. Of course, I started riding trail bikes when I was 11. To me, they were the epitome of long distance reliability and functional design

jandhumphreyme said:

..........largest gripe about the newer technologies.....

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To me, the issue is insertion of technologies that really don't address core functional issues, but offer a superfluous level of adjustment or entertainment (i.e., "communication")

While I am older 65, I do find myself shunning new tech sometime...and when i do, I know I'm wrong....we should IMO never try to stop progress. Were the good old days better ?...in terms of transportation ?...well I suppose if ya like shoveling horse poop it was...

The proprietary software makes the new technologies less attractive to me

BMW may be trying to appeal to those that shun new technology a bit.

When the RnineT first came out I read that BMW may have been using the older style 1200 motor to use up engines/parts already on hand. During a recent motorcycle trip a dealer told me a BMW rep had told him that BMW plans to continue to use the older style motor in the RnineT. I personally think that is pretty cool, and may be BMW's way of offering a bike that is a bit more simple than some of the other current offerings. It was probably the right type of bike to take that step with.

I can only imagine that BMW doesn't try to operate in a vacuum, and has focus groups and other ways of gauging what it is consumers are looking for. As much as I wince at times when I read about some new high tech new system, it obviously has to be driven by consumer demand. If something fails in a major way it can be devastating for a manufacturer. Look at all of the bad press about the RT suspension problem, and it's not a technology problem. If a company tries to recoup R&D costs too quickly by releasing something prematurely, it can be pretty horrible for them.

Some stuff BMW has done has made me scratch my head. I don't believe as a company they do anything that isn't perceived to be driven by what the consumers want.

rangerreece said:

Lima. you'll get the injector body in Peru at the BMW dealership in Lima. I didn't bother searching for the other exotic locales as it only took 11 seconds on google to find the answer to one.

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But what do you suggest he does while waiting the three weeks to get the injector body delivered from Germany?

ClassicVW said:

But what do you suggest he does while waiting the three weeks to get the injector body delivered from Germany?

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My thoughts exactly.