2012 R1200RT front brake pads

Checked my front brake pads this weekend 33,000 miles on the originals. There are 4 score marks in the pads that I assume are wear indicators. or are they to dissipate heat??
Any advise on when to change? The wear is very even and consistent on all 4 pads.

redheadhexhead said:

Checked my front brake pads this weekend 33,000 miles on the originals. There are 4 score marks in the pads that I assume are wear indicators. or are they to dissipate heat??
Any advise on when to change? The wear is very even and consistent on all 4 pads.

Click to expand...

wear limit on front pads (most all pads) is 1mm (they start at about 4-5mm).....and in my opinion that is too thin....the pad must be able to dissipate heat and as the pad material thins its ability to dissipate that heat is reduced.....

pads are cheap considering the consequences of failure.....

BTW, i use EBC HH pads.....

wyman

They are wear indicators. My front pads (albeit on a lighter GS) last forever. My last GS was sold at 78K miles with still over 1/2 the life left on front pads and rotors. I can't say the same for the rear.

On my '09 RT the fronts lasted 44K miles, rears 48K. YMMV. Some wear but nowhere near tolerance on the discs.

JayJay

Rear brake pads

Just replaced my rear pads at 46k km, no rings showing on the wear indicator. There was a LOT of pad left; I could have left the job a lot longer.
I used Galfer green pads: they were really tight, could barely get them back on and when I had I could barely push the bike out of the garage. After a short ride there was smoke coming off around the calliper ( from the anti- seize grease?) but by the time I got home everything seemed to be working. Is this to be expected or should I have taken some excess material off the pads?
THis was the first time I've ever done a brake pad job. Thanks for the excellent instructions on this forum. One thing I had a problem with was getting the pin back in: no room to whack it into place with the silencer on. I used a c- clamp and it was easy to do singlehanded; perhaps this puts an unfair load on the calliper but it didn't involve much force and did no damage.
Comments anyone?
2009 RT

Man, y'all wear out some front pads!

My 05 RT was hard on rears, typically 7K...the fronts were within tolerances still at 50K.

09 GSA with 95K just got a new set around January...even though they were still also looking close to the new sets thickness. The rear was gone about 36K

Our hot-rod R12S at 24K are barely worn...both ends of bike

Helen's 07 R12R with 70K is only on second set of rear pads and original fronts...


Maybe we just brake a lot less

that smoking off the caliper sounds like they are too snug to me, I have heard the Galfers are snug from a few other posters.

I am going with Wymans opinion to replace pads early to keep the heat dissipating capacity. I replaced my rear pads with 2.5mm left. Plus it is a chance to clean the caliper pucks etc. My rear EBC pads were pretty tight for about 100 miles which concerned me at first so I would ride short trips to let the caliper cool. I could always rotate the tire but it would not spin without some assistance on the center stand until I had around 100 miles on them.
I took the Caliper off to make sure nothing was binding and correctly installed and all appeared nominal. The tire will now spin one turn without assistance.

The LA police evaluation for the RT-P lists the radiant heat of the front brake at 178 degrees vs. 363 degrees (I assume it is degrees F) for the rear. This indicates those rear calipers get pretty hot in normal use. The other bikes in the evaluation were all below 200 for the rear brake except for the Honda ST1300 which was over 400. I assume this has to do with the extra heat associated with a drive shaft??

Thanks for the comments, guys. Now I think I'll go and wear those things in!

roamingbeemer said:

I am going with Wymans opinion to replace pads early to keep the heat dissipating capacity. I replaced my rear pads with 2.5mm left. Plus it is a chance to clean the caliper pucks etc. My rear EBC pads were pretty tight for about 100 miles which concerned me at first so I would ride short trips to let the caliper cool. I could always rotate the tire but it would not spin without some assistance on the center stand until I had around 100 miles on them.
I took the Caliper off to make sure nothing was binding and correctly installed and all appeared nominal. The tire will now spin one turn without assistance.

The LA police evaluation for the RT-P lists the radiant heat of the front brake at 178 degrees vs. 363 degrees (I assume it is degrees F) for the rear. This indicates those rear calipers get pretty hot in normal use. The other bikes in the evaluation were all below 200 for the rear brake except for the Honda ST1300 which was over 400. I assume this has to do with the extra heat associated with a drive shaft??

Click to expand...

i would think the higher rear brake temps being higher are because of the lack of airflow over the calipers.....

Regarding airflow over rear brakes.... would a chain or belt drive give that much extra cooling from airflow compared to a shaft? That FD gets pretty warm and the heat may conduct thru the metal connections. All I know from some hands on and internet research that the rear brakes get pretty hot on both my shaft driven bikes under similar circumstances. You can probably google the Los Angeles
eval. It is too big to attach

This has also reinforced why it is important to change out the brake fluid.

roamingbeemer said:

The LA police evaluation for the RT-P lists the radiant heat of the front brake at 178 degrees vs. 363 degrees (I assume it is degrees F) for the rear. This indicates those rear calipers get pretty hot in normal use. The other bikes in the evaluation were all below 200 for the rear brake except for the Honda ST1300 which was over 400. I assume this has to do with the extra heat associated with a drive shaft??

Click to expand...

Interesting temp comparison. Wonder if this was the temperature after some set operating conditions? Even in real life the rear brakes on the R1200x bikes tends to run warm, even if not used. The single piston sliding caliper design can get sticky (due to inadequate or too much grease on the pins the caliper slides on) causing the pads to drag a bit on the rotor. I've seen temperatures on the rear rotors hot enough to raise a blister if you touch the rotor with a bare finger - even after very light brake use. Mine used to be this way - and used to eat rear pads (would get about 15-20,000 miles a set.)

I finally replaced the rear rotor (due to wear) with an EBC and EBC pads, and made sure the caliper was free moving on the pins. Now the rear rotor is barely warm even after extended riding, and there is almost no brake dust on the rim.

The difference? The EBC rotors (they sent me a replacement one after I contacted them) mounted so it has a very slight out of true condition - probably about 0.002" or so at the outside edge - which I believe knocks the pads back. After installing the 2nd one and still having the condition, and noticing that I couldn't feel the out-of-true (could see it on the wear pattern on the rotor when it was new, and feel it when spinning the rear wheel) that I'd ignore it. After about 15,000 miles it seems the rotor is finally worn in basically true, but it still isn't generating the heat and brake dust the original did.

I've checked lots of local club members R1200R's (bike I'm interested in..) and to some extent they all exhibited the drag. I noticed the R-Nine-T is listed as having a dual piston caliper, IMHO - a superior design.

roamingbeemer said:

Regarding airflow over rear brakes.... would a chain or belt drive give that much extra cooling from airflow compared to a shaft? That FD gets pretty warm and the heat may conduct thru the metal connections. All I know from some hands on and internet research that the rear brakes get pretty hot on both my shaft driven bikes under similar circumstances. You can probably google the Los Angeles
eval. It is too big to attach

This has also reinforced why it is important to change out the brake fluid.

Click to expand...

I think the warm rear drive is more a symptom of brake drag - not the other way around. If the rotor gets hot - the only heat conduction path it has is through the rear-drive center "crown" gear (the big hole gear).. since my rear brake doesn't get hot anymore (see post above) - my rear drive is never more than just a bit warm to the touch.

deilenberger said:

I think the warm rear drive is more a symptom of brake drag - not the other way around. If the rotor gets hot - the only heat conduction path it has is through the rear-drive center "crown" gear (the big hole gear).. since my rear brake doesn't get hot anymore (see post above) - my rear drive is never more than just a bit warm to the touch.

Click to expand...

Interesting, both my R1200GSA and K13GT get pretty hot. Not as hot as when I first put the EBC pads on but still pretty hot to the touch. Have not measured it like the LA police eval did but I do not want to leave my fingers on the caliper. That is after a ride and not using the rear brakes much. I tried to heat the rear brake caliper up on my S1000RR but even after intentionally using the rear brake alot the caliper was a reasonable temperature.

I made the assumption it was a combination of both FD and the brakes that was causing the heat.

I get a little drag on the rear so that must be the source. I had forgotten about it as being a problem. I will triple check the pins and pucks are clean and free to move. I clean the calipers with brake cleaner to get rid of the dust and I can get about one full rotation of the tire on the center stand but that may be enough to heat things up at speed. As you said, I have also felt other bikes and they were hot also so I had discounted the issue.

So Don you bought both new EBC pads and Rotor? My rotor is well within limits still so what do you recommend?

Interesting only the BMW RT-P and Honda ST1300 had the hot rear brakes. The other bikes in the eval were the BMW G650(Front-198? Rear-131.5?), HD Electra Glide(N/A), and HD Road King(Front-205? Rear-178.5?).
The 1200 RTP (Front-178? Rear-363?) and the Honda ST1300 (Front-313? Rear-432?)
It states these measurements were taken after identical maneuvering.

interesting....

i find this very interesting....

the other day, after reading this thread about heating calipers, rotors and FDs, I stopped after a reasonable ride and check the FD with my hand on my 2013 RT.....slightly warm to the touch....bear in mind that my fingers are made of asbestos and i feel little anymore...LOL....

tonite on my 40 mile commute home i will ride my usual ~75mph and pull off the freeway without using either brakes and just engine braking, stop and check the temps of the rear rotor, caliper and FD....and the rotor/caliper temps of the front as well using an infrared thermometer.....i will report back...

btw...i have EBC HH pads front and rear, OEM rotors....

wyman

roamingbeemer said:

So Don you bought both new EBC pads and Rotor? My rotor is well within limits still so what do you recommend?

Click to expand...

Given the difference in price between EBC and BMW factory pads, and since many BMW riders have ridden EBC pads some long distances without issues - EBC seems a winner to me.

wyman.winn said:

i find this very interesting....

the other day, after reading this thread about heating calipers, rotors and FDs, I stopped after a reasonable ride and check the FD with my hand on my 2013 RT.....slightly warm to the touch....bear in mind that my fingers are made of asbestos and i feel little anymore...LOL....

tonite on my 40 mile commute home i will ride my usual ~75mph and pull off the freeway without using either brakes and just engine braking, stop and check the temps of the rear rotor, caliper and FD....and the rotor/caliper temps of the front as well using an infrared thermometer.....i will report back...

btw...i have EBC HH pads front and rear, OEM rotors....

wyman

Click to expand...

as promised.....

2013 R1200RT, purchased 7/7/12

40 miles of highway riding at ~75mph, pulled into Mobil station just off the highway using as little brake as possible....

EBC HH pads front and rear, OEM rotors, ~27000 miles on the rotors about 22000 miles on the pads....

temps taken with a Raytek "MiniTemp" MT6 infrared digital thermometer.....calibrated within the last 30 days....

ambient temps ranged from 95F (4pm-pacific) at the start to 90F (4:40pm-pacific) when temps were read.....

Final drive - ~135F
Rear rotor - ~96F
Rear caliper - ~105F

Front calipers - ~92F
Front Rotors - ~92F

i could easily touch any of the parts without a problem.....i would assume (we know what that means!!!) that there is little real drag on the rotors and that the FD temps is pretty much "normal"....

i am curious as to where the high temps are coming from.....maybe after simulated panic stops...???

wyman

Wyman, those temps look very good. I am out of town now until September but I will be checking on this further when I get home. If I remember correctly the rear is a floating caliper.
I keep the rear caliper clean but I do not lube the pins like I have in cars for floating calipers.
Do you guys lube the pins with brake grease? Does not look like BMW does and I do not remember seeing any recommendation in the Hayes manual.

roamingbeemer said:

Wyman, those temps look very good. I am out of town now until September but I will be checking on this further when I get home. If I remember correctly the rear is a floating caliper.
I keep the rear caliper clean but I do not lube the pins like I have in cars for floating calipers.
Do you guys lube the pins with brake grease? Does not look like BMW does and I do not remember seeing any recommendation in the Hayes manual.

Click to expand...

the rear caliper is indeed a floating caliper.....pistons on only one side as opposed to the front with pistons on both sides....

that said, i do lube the pins with brake grease on all floating calipers.....

wyman

First rear pad change

I'm happy to say that after 100 miles (and a lot of brake dust) my tight pads are now free. I can spin the wheel one turn easily. So keep calm and carry on...

wyman.winn said:

the rear caliper is indeed a floating caliper.....pistons on only one side as opposed to the front with pistons on both sides....

that said, i do lube the pins with brake grease on all floating calipers.....

wyman

Click to expand...

I will give a little brake grease a try. I never used it on the bike considering it will collect dirt. The caliper feels free to float when I wiggle it around some but will see if I can get it cooler.