Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 111

Thread: Dead R1100RS - Troubleshooting Tips?

  1. #31
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    south of Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,694
    Dr. Paul's post reminds me of another item: Wasn't there a recall or service advisory regarding the proximity of the O2 sensor wiring to the right-side spark plug (high tension) wire? Seems the field around the plug wire was enough to affect the voltage on the sensor line, causing the computer some confusion when deciding what mix & timing the engine needed. (Maybe this was just for 1150s?)

    Another (related) thing to check would be the plug wires themselves - old and deteriorated can cause intermittent issues. Also look very closely at the spring clamps that hold them in place as they are routed around: I've had to replace wires due to those clamps being way too tight and damaging the insulation.

  2. #32
    Registered User bwanajames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    66

    Yes, Hall Harness Replaced

    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I'm coming around to the notion that this might be a faulty ECU. Why? My initial reaction was that this has identical symptoms to a couple of cases of bad HES I've seen. Spark present! Squirt present! Popping! Hesitant firing! - beacuse of cross feed in the HES harness and firing and squirt at random times instead of accurately timed. But the HES was replaced. I assume the whole HES assembly including the wiring harness to the connector was replaced.

    I would thus attempt to use a timing light to determine (through the timing hole in the bellhousing) whether the timing of the spark seems accurate and consistent, or somewhat erratic.

    Go from there.
    Paul,

    Thanks for joining the discussion. Yes, the Hall Sensor was replaced with a new wiring harness to the connector. I too have been wondering about the ECU (Yikes! $$...). I'll see if I can employ a timing light for some fresh insights. Thanks!

    DSC_7867_Hall Connection_Resized.jpg
    "Dream like you'll live forever, live like you'll die today..." - James Dean

  3. #33
    Registered User bwanajames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    66

    Good Tip! Lines/Port Appear to be Clear

    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    Besides what everyone else has accurately suggested, you might also want to make sure your fuel filler cap is venting properly.
    Great advice, as I understand clogged vent ports can be quite problematic. If I blow into the end of the filler neck water drain hose, I feel a stream of hot air (my trademark...) so all appears to be well in that department.

    DSC_7882_Notes_Resized.jpg

    The text in this pic was gleaned largely from Anton Largiader's info on Fuel Tank Plumbing. Thanks Anton!
    Last edited by bwanajames; 05-10-2014 at 10:24 PM.
    "Dream like you'll live forever, live like you'll die today..." - James Dean

  4. #34
    Registered User bwanajames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    66

    Fuel Injection Pressure Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
    When you get tired of spending money you could resort to troubleshooting... that's where the pressure test suggestion came from. If you have pressure, all that stuff in the tank is not the problem. So, see if you have pressure. Hopefully you do since all of the in-tank stuff is new. You want 3 bar (just under 45 psi) on the lower hose going into the fuel distributor and it should stay there for a while when the pump shuts off.

    Does the pump come on when you turn the key? Does it come on again if you crank the engine? Pull an injector out (leave it connected to the pipe and the wire); do you get strong and regular fuel sprays?
    Okay, here is what we've got...

    DSC_7903_Notes_Resized.jpg

    After initial gauge attachment, the key was turned (not cranked) and the pressure held at 14 psi. This was misleading, as I'm guessing the initial priming "whir" of the fuel pump is a timed duration, and with the extra foot of hose it didn't have time to build higher pressure. Subsequent priming brought the needle to 40 psi.

    DSC_7908_Notes_Resized.jpg

    On the second round of testing, when the ignition key was turned to the "on" position (not cranked) the gauge jumped to 40 psi. Presumably, this is because the additional line was now full of fuel (not air).

    DSC_7906_Notes_Reduced.jpg

    Cranking the engine brought the pressure up to 46 psi. Well, we've ruled out this piece of the puzzle. But the condition of the patient is unchanged (spins, chugs, occasional backfire... and won't start).
    "Dream like you'll live forever, live like you'll die today..." - James Dean

  5. #35
    Left Coast Rider
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,311
    First a disclaimer: I am far from knowledgeable on electronic gremlins (which this seems to be).

    Might we be at the stage of plugging in a GS-911 to see what, if any, codes come up?

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    First a disclaimer: I am far from knowledgeable on electronic gremlins (which this seems to be).

    Might we be at the stage of plugging in a GS-911 to see what, if any, codes come up?
    Yes, maybe, but ...

    The GS 911 requires an adaptor interface for the three-pin flat diagnostic plug on the R1100 models, and the software has more limited functions than on the 1150 and later models.
    Last edited by PGlaves; 05-11-2014 at 04:50 AM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  7. #37
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    Posts
    1,487

    I'm not at codes yet.

    At this point, if you are sure about spark, fuel and air, I'd be looking at timing. A good indicator that something is off with timing is a light but a compression test can be very helpful.
    1997 R1100RT, 1981 KZ 440 LTD, R80RT, R90/6 sidecar, K1100RS,1983 K100RS (Cafe now)

    “The major civilizing force in the world is not religion, it is sex.”

  8. #38
    Registered User bwanajames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    66

    GS-911 to the Rescue?

    Quote Originally Posted by bc1100s View Post
    first a disclaimer: I am far from knowledgeable on electronic gremlins (which this seems to be).

    Might we be at the stage of plugging in a gs-911 to see what, if any, codes come up?
    BC1100s,

    Yes, I was entertaining the same thoughts. But as Paul pointed out, the feedback for the R1100RS is rather limited. It would be simple enough to load the bike on the trailer and haul it down to the dealership for diagnostics, but all you learn from that is how to swipe a debit card, and I'm already pretty good at that.
    While these experiences can be exasperating, what I inevitably learn is invaluable. Hopefully I can find the Silver Bullet soon.

    GS-911 for R1100_1.jpg
    GS-911 for R1100_2.jpg

    As you can see here, there are a couple of rather large "N/A's" for the R1100RS. Among them, ECU info; so I'm not sure about the payback for ponying-up for the GS-911.
    "Dream like you'll live forever, live like you'll die today..." - James Dean

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post
    At this point, if you are sure about spark, fuel and air, I'd be looking at timing. A good indicator that something is off with timing is a light but a compression test can be very helpful.
    It might be a good idea to go back and check the timing of the HES plate. The easy wat to do that is to have the key on and rotate the engine by hand on the pully bolt at the front. Each time the pistons reach Top Dead Center - exactly TDC - the fuel pump should cycle on. If not EXACTLY on the OT mark when the pump turns on, take the pulley back off and readjust the HES.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  10. #40
    Registered User bwanajames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    66

    Good Tip!

    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    It might be a good idea to go back and check the timing of the HES plate. The easy wat to do that is to have the key on and rotate the engine by hand on the pully bolt at the front. Each time the pistons reach Top Dead Center - exactly TDC - the fuel pump should cycle on. If not EXACTLY on the OT mark when the pump turns on, take the pulley back off and readjust the HES.
    Oooo! Good tip! I was wondering how to go about that! (I was told to scribe lines from the original baseplate and return the new HES to the original position. But your method sounds more precise) Thanks!!
    "Dream like you'll live forever, live like you'll die today..." - James Dean

  11. #41

    Did you do a compression check?

    "The bike ran strong until it quit, without any catastrophic sounds/feelings, etc. Even if compression were gone on one cylinder, it would still start/run on one (roughly of course, but it would run...)."


    It looks like you have covered most of the basics and some of the advanced diagnostic testing but I can't see any indication that you ran a compression check on the bike or checked the engine timing. You have fuel, air and fire but if sequence isn't timed properly you won't get ignition. I would check the mechanical timing on the bike to make sure the timing chain has not slipped a tooth or two.

    First if you haven't already, pull the valve covers and check the valve clearance (make sure the valves on both cylinders have proper valve movement) and then check the engine timing (Piston, valve and ignition sensor) then run a compression test on the bike. Slipped timing or a chunk of carbon holding the exhaust valve open can do exactly what you described in your first post (sudden failure, backfire when cranked, won't start) even if it was only one side of the motor, consider the age of the bike, mileage and known problems with the timing chain components along with possible carbon buildup in the combustion chambers.

  12. #42
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    3,128
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    It might be a good idea to go back and check the timing of the HES plate. The easy wat to do that is to have the key on and rotate the engine by hand on the pully bolt at the front. Each time the pistons reach Top Dead Center - exactly TDC - the fuel pump should cycle on. If not EXACTLY on the OT mark when the pump turns on, take the pulley back off and readjust the HES.
    Paul has probably timed Voni's RS umpteen times so I'm sure this will probably work fine but it doesn't work on an 1100RT. No idea why, it just doesn't.

    This timing method works perfectly on an 1150 engine which has a Motronic 2.4 ECU but on my 1100RT with a Motronic 2.2 it does not work at all. The pump won't cycle. Other than using a timing light the only method of static timing my 1100 is to use a home built timing box or use an inductive timing light on the spark plug wire and time a warmed up engine idling at 1100 RPM to the "S" mark in the flywheel housing view port.

    Here's a link to Dana Hager's simple timing and hall sensor test box: http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom...timing_box.pdf
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  13. #43
    Registered User bwanajames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    66

    Yes We Can! (Think political slogan...)

    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    It might be a good idea to go back and check the timing of the HES plate. The easy wat to do that is to have the key on and rotate the engine by hand on the pully bolt at the front. Each time the pistons reach Top Dead Center - exactly TDC - the fuel pump should cycle on. If not EXACTLY on the OT mark when the pump turns on, take the pulley back off and readjust the HES.
    Paul,
    I trotted out to the garage, at sure enough, using the fuel pump cycling test, it did indicate that the HES was a bit off. But this is now the least of my worries. THE PLOT THICKENS...

    Quote Originally Posted by happy wanderer View Post
    Paul has probably timed Voni's RS umpteen times so I'm sure this will probably work fine but it doesn't work on an 1100RT. No idea why, it just doesn't.

    This timing method works perfectly on an 1150 engine which has a Motronic 2.4 ECU but on my 1100RT with a Motronic 2.2 it does not work at all. The pump won't cycle. Other than using a timing light the only method of static timing my 1100 is to use a home built timing box or use an inductive timing light on the spark plug wire and time a warmed up engine idling at 1100 RPM to the "S" mark in the flywheel housing view port.

    Here's a link to Dana Hager's simple timing and hall sensor test box: http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom...timing_box.pdf
    Wanderer,
    That is a good bit of information. I'll tuck that away in the archives. Happily, a '00 R1100RS fuel pump does cycle at TDC. But for the REALLY exciting news, read on...
    "Dream like you'll live forever, live like you'll die today..." - James Dean

  14. #44
    Registered User bwanajames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    66

    (Movie Score with Music of Impending Doom...)

    Okay, so I'm hunkered down next to the lovely RS, with a socket on the crank pulley bolt, ratchet in hand, about to turn the engine over to perform Dr. Paul's fuel pump cycling/HES fine tuning, when I think: "Maybe I should pull the plugs to make turning the engine easier..."

    Nah... Let's just see how it goes...

    Hmm... as I'm turning the engine, I think: "Man, this IS turning like the plugs are out - BUT THEY'RE IN! (Long extended groan...). So I dig out the compression tester. Brace yourself...

    DSC_7913_Resized.jpg
    Right side

    DSC_7917_Resized.jpg
    Left side

    What the heck!?! Did the cam chain break?
    "Dream like you'll live forever, live like you'll die today..." - James Dean

  15. #45
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    3,128
    This has me scratching my head... I just looked at the part numbers for the 1100RS ECU and the 1100RT ECU and they are identical. Both our bikes are 2000 models and the RS and RT engines are also identical. I am starting to wonder if I was doing something wrong when I replaced my last hall sensor. Next time I have the front cover off I'm going to have to try this again as it sure is a nice easy way to time your bike on the side of the road or in a campground someplace.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •