BMW R-bikes on unimproved roads

It seems to me that every R-Bike I've ridden on a dirt, gravel, or sand road felt somewhat squirrely. My theory is that the torque of the engine is the cause for this issue. The latest I've tried it on was an R-1100 I had last year. I felt very uncomfortable at any speed over about 30 MPH on gravel. Suffice it to say I have simply avoided any road that is not paved with my present pair of R-bikes, an R1200C and an R1150RT. I have not needed to ride either of my K-bikes on poor roads, yet. I don't think they would have the same feel due to the layout of the engine, but I may be wrong.

I know the GS series are supposedly designed for "off road" gelande as well as strassen.

Does anyone (everyone) else feel this way about our beloved BMWs, or is my technique off kilter?

I'm going to go with the rubber.

My son and I, when he was a kidlet, had a favorite spot, some distance, to pop up a tent, do some fishing and the Dad/Son bonding thing(long gone now, bringing a potential bride home next week. You just know Dad got moved down a few notches) and I had a beautiful, best little kitten I ever owned, an R80RT. The last 70 miles was gravel.

It was a beautiful spot, about 5 hours of pavement and then................all day on the gravel. There were times when the gravel got wet, I could feel the back end sphincter get a lot more tense than just talking to the boss.

I ran Metzeler Lasertecs because they are a good rubber. One time, I ran Avon Distanzia's, a simple dual sport tire. That bike changed into a gravel road monster. It was steady, no squirrels and I felt that two-up loaded was just right.

But, there is always a but, they only lasted about 3000 miles on hard top.

I have a few bikes, my favorite remains an R1100RT and I goooooooooo sssssssssssssllllllllllllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww on gravel with it because I spend way more time on slab than pudding. My K75S won't see anything but slab. A K1100RS just looks too pretty with mud on it so it stays on slab. I thinking taking a Brick or Bricklet on gumbo would be rather sacrilegious. The dynamics and style just isn't there in my opinion.

The tires are the difference I think. Softer suspension, or rather, more reactive suspension and of course, overall suspension travel on the hunny hills would make a GS shine.

I don't have the ground clearance on my RT to get over a few speed humps.

MG McAnick said:

It seems to me that every R-Bike I've ridden on a dirt, gravel, or sand road felt somewhat squirrely. My theory is that the torque of the engine is the cause for this issue. The latest I've tried it on was an R-1100 I had last year. I felt very uncomfortable at any speed over about 30 MPH on gravel. Suffice it to say I have simply avoided any road that is not paved with my present pair of R-bikes, an R1200C and an R1150RT. I have not needed to ride either of my K-bikes on poor roads, yet. I don't think they would have the same feel due to the layout of the engine, but I may be wrong.

I know the GS series are supposedly designed for "off road" gelande as well as strassen.

Does anyone (everyone) else feel this way about our beloved BMWs, or is my technique off kilter?

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When it comes to bikes of 1000cc or larger it is hard to imagine an engine that has more time off pavement than the BMW boxer. The bikes you mentioned don't have the suspension, wheel size, geometery, ergonomics or likely the tires to perform well off pavement. Probably the only way for you to know for sure whether or not you feel comfortable riding a bike with the R engine on dirt, gravel or sand is to ride a GS and see for yourself. Feeling somewhat squirrely on those sort of surfaces is par for the course, but then everyone defines "somwhat" differently. Could be it is just not a combination for you, or you may love it.

I ride my R1100 RSL on unimproved roads quite often, and have never felt uncomfortable, and have often seen 60-65 on some of these. Like any motorcycle on gravel, it's easier the faster you go.

I fail to comprehend why you would feel that the boxer engine would play into the bike feeling unstable though.

Ken

It's hard to put all that expensive plastic out of mind for sure.

Like most things, "specialist" is the norm and "multipurpose" is wishful thinking.

GS is the best, but a little windy on the road ... but being in the wind is what motorcycling is about.

Ken F said:

I fail to comprehend why you would feel that the boxer engine would play into the bike feeling unstable though.

Ken

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I think it has to do with the torque the engine exhibits and transmits to the machine, even while standing still, when the throttle is advanced.

My hunch is you have virtually no free play in the throttle cable. Add about 3mm of free play and see of the bike doesn't seem a whole lot less twitchy!!

PGlaves said:

My hunch is you have virtually no free play in the throttle cable. Add about 3mm of free play and see of the bike doesn't seem a whole lot less twitchy!!

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Back in the 70's, this made all the difference in the world on our enduro bikes.

I sort of started riding by riding my dad's Cushman on dirt, so, maybe my expectations are different. Certainly, I think that expectations are a big part of any ride anywhere (notwithstanding throttle cable slack...). I have ridden my wife's past R1100R and R1200C on dirt roads. The R12C was no fun at all...geometry and very narrow front tire were likely of no help. The R11R was very much within my expectations and very cofortable, probably as close as I could come to a GS with street tires. I have even taken all my K-bikes on unimproved roads at one time or another. The earlier K's were easier for me, but since they are already top heavy, this was not their ideal habitat. The K1200RS is for sure not a dirt kind of ride, but you know, when you come across a road construction zone where your choice is to backtrack a hundred miles or go across a freshly watered dirty gravel section for a mile or two...you just kind of do it, but I would not knowingly plan an extended ride on dirt on this bike. To me, the R bike is actually - for a road bike- the most ideal layout due to it's low center of mass and, to me, very controllable torque. I would expect the RT and similar bikes to be more top heavy like the K's due to their intended habitat and not likely to be at home on unimproved roads at speed...
just my two cents...

I rode enduros in New England for twenty years so I'm very familiar with all sorts of off-road. My R1200RT rarely sees it -- at least not on purpose. I was riding with my good riding buddy on a Ducati Multistrata. He likes to pick out unfamiliar twisty looking roads on the GPS and see where they go which occasionally gets us into some dodgy situations. One day this navigatable gravel road suddenly turns into single track and then as I round a turn, a long steep downhill laden with softball sized rocks. I couldn't stop or turn around, so it was up on the pegs and ride it out. It would have been no big deal on an enduro bike, but it was a chore on the RT. The point is that the problems are due to lack of ground clearance, short suspension travel, weight, and tires. Street tires are really inadequate in the dirt. The engine characteristics have no bearing (at least to me) on the off-road worthiness -- it's all in the other four areas.

MG McAnick said:

Does anyone (everyone) else feel this way about our beloved BMWs, or is my technique off kilter?

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Check the nut holding the handlebars.

I don't think that it would have matter if i was on my GS or not

softball size rocks give my serious paaauuuusss

LebanonRider said:

I rode enduros in New England for twenty years so I'm very familiar with all sorts of off-road. My R1200RT rarely sees it -- at least not on purpose. I was riding with my good riding buddy on a Ducati Multistrata. He likes to pick out unfamiliar twisty looking roads on the GPS and see where they go which occasionally gets us into some dodgy situations. One day this navigatable gravel road suddenly turns into single track and then as I round a turn, a long steep downhill laden with softball sized rocks. I couldn't stop or turn around, so it was up on the pegs and ride it out. It would have been no big deal on an enduro bike, but it was a chore on the RT. The point is that the problems are due to lack of ground clearance, short suspension travel, weight, and tires. Street tires are really inadequate in the dirt. The engine characteristics have no bearing (at least to me) on the off-road worthiness -- it's all in the other four areas.

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LebanonRider said:

The point is that the problems are due to lack of ground clearance, short suspension travel, weight, and tires.

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The point is that the problems are due to the fact that RTs are not designed for dirt.

ooooh, the softball sized rocks remind me of the time we went to the Santa Barbara Rally one year and the park had just done us all a favor of placing new crushed rock on the road in and out. Not gravel, no binder, 2"+ deep of white-ish 3/4 or larger angular rock. I don't know if anybody went down, but it was the 'up on the pegs' route for me on my '85 KRS....

BC1100S said:

The point is that the problems are due to the fact that RTs are not designed for dirt.

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But the problem is If I go north from my house, I hit gravel/sand roads within a mile. If I'm going to some destinations it is two miles out of the way to use another route. Riding on dirt roads is not a must, but it is often the only expedient route.

I have had several BMWs over the last 40 years, and all of the R-bikes I've ridden on dirt have exhibited this same propensity to be squirrely on anything but pavement. I have yet to try a dirt road on either of my K-bikes, but I was on a gravel driveway this morning. It seemed normal, but was not a good test. I'll probably have a chance next week. The weather is improving.

MG McAnick said:

........all of the R-bikes I've ridden on dirt have exhibited this same propensity to be squirrely on anything but pavement. .....

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Good thing they never tried to use them in a off road race like the Paris to Dakar.

Your assessment is simply not true.... in my opinion. However, one man's squirrely is another woman's solid and steady.....

I did the apache trail once with my RT, never again. I thought the windscreen and topcase were going to rattle off the bike. Best to use the right tool for the job. The RT is a fine road machine. If I really need to do dirt, a GS would be better.

Wasn't Lostrider posting his many offroad adventures on his R12R a few years back?
He takes his R where some would not venture on a dedicated dirt bike.

I learned to ride on oyster shell roads on Galveston island, so anything not sharp on the edges is kind of fun.I have found myself on some rocky ways on fairing heavy bikes...still here to talk about it and no damaged bits. Loose is fast

My bro in law had a shortcut in CO a few years back...he was on his R12R...me on a K12S...it got loose and we kept going...I later told him I was on a S...not a GS still had fun


.

henzilla said:

Wasn't Lostrider posting his many offroad adventures on his R12R a few years back?
He takes his R where some would not venture on a dedicated dirt bike.

I learned to ride on oyster shell roads on Galveston island, so anything not sharp on the edges is kind of fun.I have found myself on some rocky ways on fairing heavy bikes...still here to talk about it and no damaged bits. Loose is fast

My bro in law had a shortcut in CO a few years back...he was on his R12R...me on a K12S...it got loose and we kept going...I later told him I was on a S...not a GS still had fun


.

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He's on a R nineT these days and his lady Nancy is riding his old R12R.

MG McAnick said:

I have had several BMWs over the last 40 years, and all of the R-bikes I've ridden on dirt have exhibited this same propensity to be squirrely on anything but pavement.

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Loosen your grip on the bars and understand that a little movement isn't a prelude to landing on your head. What you might do is find a buddy who has a dirt bike and practice on that for awhile. It all translates over to the bigger bike.

Then you can be like Henzilla and enter your K12S in the Dakar.