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I wish BMW would go back to building reliable, dependable BMW motorcycles as opposed to clones too other designs.
Yes I know it is a business decision to "keep-up" with the "trends"....and yes I know I'm wrongfrom a business point of view . I'm just venting
.....
Presume you are talking about the fictional S1000F that might be a concept bike???? Yes, I am not a fan either, but neither am I the target audience. Since I am not in the market for ANY new bike, I am not bothered by the various concept bikes displayed around by the media. Any bike that I might someday buy is already on the showroom floor somewhere, and already has years and miles of owner/rider experience to support my someday purchase decision.
I don't think that reliability and diversification in styles are mutually exclusive. The design department isn't responsible for any model's reliability. Although I am far from a fan of dual sport riding and will avoid any surface that doesn't have superp grip and traction ( I hate to ride in the rain), the S1000F is attractive to me. If they decide to put a decent pillion seat on it, I would even be tempted to take it for a test ride.
The bottom line is that any company has to offer what appeals and sells, in order to make a profit. These new designs are what BMW feels it needs to produce to stay in business. I can't fault them for that.
What I see though, is that there was a time when BMW had it own unique style of bike, and its own purpose for riding. The Japanese had bikes that appealed to the general public as they caught on, and made a name for themselves. BMW kept producing BMW's. The Euro bikes, Triumph, Norton and BSA were the sort of "sport bikes" with oil leaks and terrible dealer networks. BMW kept producing BMW's. Then there were the Harleys. Rattle, vibrate, and lots of chrome. Appealed to the Hell's Angels and the men who liked to be "American."
But, if BMW kept on making their usual motorcycles, they probably wouldn't have survived.
So.. even though what appeals to me are those older BMW's that were ugly, but they were smooth and ran long distances, I still don't criticize BMW from trying to produce these newer styles. And in order to survive, BMW has to make what appears to be selling. They don't appeal to me, but to others . . .?
What I see though, is that there was a time when BMW had it own unique style of bike, and its own purpose for riding. The Japanese had bikes that appealed to the general public as they caught on, and made a name for themselves. BMW kept producing BMW's. The Euro bikes, Triumph, Norton and BSA were the sort of "sport bikes" with oil leaks and terrible dealer networks. BMW kept producing BMW's. Then there were the Harleys. Rattle, vibrate, and lots of chrome. Appealed to the Hell's Angels and the men who liked to be "American."
But, if BMW kept on making their usual motorcycles, they probably wouldn't have survived.
So.. even though what appeals to me are those older BMW's that were ugly, but they were smooth and ran long distances, I still don't criticize BMW from trying to produce these newer styles. And in order to survive, BMW has to make what appears to be selling. They don't appeal to me, but to others . . .?
It is the sign of the times. All manufacturers want to capture all the business possible and want to offer a product for everyone, no matter what the preference is. When I was a kid, Porsche was a maker of sports cars. Now they make sports cars, a four door sedan and two SUV models. And they talk about getting into....I don't even want to go there....
I just hope Ferrari never comes out with a Pick-up truck
I just hope Ferrari never comes out with a Pick-up truck
What I hate, and what seems to capture most of the American market, is the marketing of a product. Instead of selling a product on its real merits, most companies now-a-days employ marketing firms where the advertising gimmick is used to sell the product, not the product itself. I am not singling out any particular brand here, or even any one product. The key to selling is marketing, marketing marketing, and advertising gimmicks.
In the early days, Honda cars were pretty pitiful, but they had great marketing. To their credit, however, the didn't just keep producing below standard cars, but actually improved them and have earned the reputation of being one of the best made cars on the market. Agree or not, that is the perception. Now, for them, it is not just marketing, but product.
Take the American car manufacturers. They had pretty much a captive market and could design and produce and sell most any car, good or not. Americans were used to them. Then came the Japanese. Competition. But the competition kept improving. American cars increased marketing while product actually got worse. They were successful only because after WWII, Americans had a one-track mind: American, American, American. So, we kept buying the American cars. Now with the proven success of the foreign competition, and the fact that people were buying for reliability, the American companies had to change or go under. They actually did improve their products. But the competition kept improving as well. Recently, I saw that now American companies are slipping again in the last few years.
For me, personally, I still don't care how ugly, old, not popular a product is, it is its dollar value (reliability, longevity, and personal satisfaction) that I want.
In the early days, Honda cars were pretty pitiful, but they had great marketing. To their credit, however, the didn't just keep producing below standard cars, but actually improved them and have earned the reputation of being one of the best made cars on the market. Agree or not, that is the perception. Now, for them, it is not just marketing, but product.
Take the American car manufacturers. They had pretty much a captive market and could design and produce and sell most any car, good or not. Americans were used to them. Then came the Japanese. Competition. But the competition kept improving. American cars increased marketing while product actually got worse. They were successful only because after WWII, Americans had a one-track mind: American, American, American. So, we kept buying the American cars. Now with the proven success of the foreign competition, and the fact that people were buying for reliability, the American companies had to change or go under. They actually did improve their products. But the competition kept improving as well. Recently, I saw that now American companies are slipping again in the last few years.
For me, personally, I still don't care how ugly, old, not popular a product is, it is its dollar value (reliability, longevity, and personal satisfaction) that I want.
dennisdarrow
#4869 Earned Lifetime mem
The marketing slogan "Made in America" is what really got Walmart cookin. Those old enough to remember those days saw Walmart as just another dime store. Then they did the "Made in America" a company policy and truly marketed it. This was in the days of "Buy American" was more than just a slogan; but a political movement. Folks were just beginning to see manufacturing capacity move away from these shores and that something needed to be done............
Now, here we are folks..........Am surely NOT amazed that Walmart is beginning to bring out that slogan/oulook once again. Hmmmm.....who is the president of their "Board of Directors".....perhaps not only this club; but this country could benefit from that leadership............God bless...........Dennis
Now, here we are folks..........Am surely NOT amazed that Walmart is beginning to bring out that slogan/oulook once again. Hmmmm.....who is the president of their "Board of Directors".....perhaps not only this club; but this country could benefit from that leadership............God bless...........Dennis
osbornk
Old man in the mountains
I decided I wanted a BMW back in 1970 because a classmate rode one to school all winter. I wanted it because it was different from all of the other motorcycles of the day. It had a boxer twin, dry clutch and shaft drive. Many of today's BMWs are like many other motorcycles with vertical twins, transverse multiple cylinders, water cooling, chains/belts, wet clutches, etc. It's like BMW finally admitted that the Japanese designs and technology were superior and they gave in. Many of the new BMWs seem to be like Japanese bikes with more gadgets.
I know BMW had to change to survive but I miss the BMW that was truly different.
I know BMW had to change to survive but I miss the BMW that was truly different.
36654
New member
In 1983, I paid $19.99 per pair for US made Levi's at Sears. In 2013, a a pair of Wranglers (Made in Honduras, I believe) costs $15.79. In 2013 dollars, the 1983 Levi's would cost $46.76.
If someone is making jeans in the US today and they cost less than $46.76, then either the employee or the employer is making less money than they did in 1983........
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36654
New member
When no one knows who you are........you're just another face in the crowd.
dennisdarrow
#4869 Earned Lifetime mem
Surely NOT to start one of the urinary flow contests that are so rampant here by the "I am expert at all" bunch here. Just going by in the past what made Walmart so successful and that now, I have seen several commercials of them touting themselves as "American" and the huge number of manufacturing jobs that they will be creating over the next few years...........If you MUST make something personal or agumentative of that....Go right ahead....God bless........Dennis
36654
New member
Dennis,
You repeat a commercial and make some peripheral/obtuse comments. Another member offers an observation about the products in the store. In response you call him argumentative. That doesn't seem productive.
Let me offer a recent anecdote;
My wife and I stopped at the Woolrich factory store a while back to buy a pair of shoes. Woolrich quit US clothing production in the 1990's. Personally, I was disappointed by this since I was raised in that area. However, clothing is a business built on low wages and Woolrich followed that mold. The wives worked there, while the husbands worked at a better job. In any case, my wife was wearing a Woolrich coat she had purchased from an on-line discounter. It's a nice coat and the check-out person complimented her on the coat. Although she shouldn't have, my wife told the check-out person that she purchased the coat from a known discounter at a price 15% lower than the in-store price. To which, the check-out clerk responded......"How do you know it's a genuine Woolrich product"?
Out in the parking lot, I told my wife..............."We might not have a genuine Chinese/Thai/Bangladesh-made Woolrich coat" and laughed.
weschmann
Kawa Afterthought
I'll add my 2 cents for what its worth....first I agree with the opinion above on who is being argumentative and who is just replying to a posted thread. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
Secondly, as a retired auto worker (Chrysler) who has never bought into the "Buy American at all costs", I feel the consumer should buy the best value for the money they are willing to spend for an item. That's what drives improvement in company process, and provides for a higher standard of living for everyone in the country. It took the auto industry a long time to acknowledge the fact that they were building junk, and foreign competition provided a better value for the American consumer dollar. And they finally responded by building better quality and value. So now if you find a product that is American made, has the best quality and value on the market place, and is the right price for your situation, then buy American. However, if a foreign product provides a better return, then buy foreign. After all, we as a country are one of the largest exporters of products in the global world, (and lots of jobs depend on a healthy export climate) so we should expect our consumers to be world class shoppers, looking for the best bargain. And I've always felt it a bunch of hooie that we don't feel Americans can compete with the world on many products. We just have to look at the business equation differently, and adjust. That doesn't necessarily mean sweat shop labor practices and wages......
osbornk
Old man in the mountains
It's getting less so, I think. I needed a headlight bulb for my R1200CLC and went to Walmart to get one since my closest dealer is about 100 miles away. I found the H4 bulb and was shocked to find that it was made in Germany and was identical to the one I had previously bought at the BMW dealership at a considerably higher price.
36654
New member
OSRAM which owns the Sylvania line sold at Walmart is a German company
http://www.osram.com/osram_com/
36654
New member
Few in our society will be as altruistic as you. When pressed, everybody will wave the "Buy American", "Energy Independence" or "Family Farmer" flag to protect their personal interests from the free market. However, it has been interesting to see which groups have remained within public favor and which have been thrown from the boat during the past 30 to 40-yrs. If we honestly based our decisions on consumer value, the US Navy would buy their ships from Hyundai.......
I do standby my previous post. Many consumer and industrial products are now too cheap for US production unless technology radically reduces the per item manpower cost. New/better systems and their components produced with the latest technology is our only hope for retaining jobs at better pay scales than in China or India. But, for that to happen, everyone from Wall Street to the employees will need to see the value in domestic production.
dennisdarrow
#4869 Earned Lifetime mem
36654, it would seem that some feathers of yours are ruffled for whatever reason. I am NOT arguing, I just pointed out that perhaps a trend is developing in at least marketing. Make of it what you please..............God bless.........Dennis
